Protest planned for New Horizons.

[Doodler]

http://www.space.com/astronotes/astronotes.html

Deja vu all over again...

Protest Planned for Pluto Spacecraft

The Global Network Against Weapons & Nuclear Power in Space of Brunswick, Maine has called for a demonstration at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida on Jan. 7 from 11:00 am to 1:00 pm EST (1600-1800 GMT).

The protest will highlight opposition to NASA’s planned New Horizons launch on January 17 that will carry a cache of plutonium to power the Pluto-bound probe’s radioisotope thermoelectric generator (RTG).

...snip...

In a statement from Global Network Coordinator, Bruce Gagnon: “We might have escaped Cassini, we might escape New Horizons, but with plans to put nuclear reactors on the Moon to power bases there in the coming years, NASA will be launching a host of these missions. One thing we have learned is that sooner or later, space technology can fail.”

[ToSeek]

If these people really objected to the mission, they should have been protesting years ago. It's a little late now.

[Doodler]

If these people really objected to the mission, they should have been protesting years ago. It's a little late now.

Preachin' to the choir, pastor, preachin' to the choir.

Of course, to the mind of an activist, there's no minute like the last minute to stir up trouble (or at least embarass oneself trying).

[Ilya]

They emphasize how dangerous RTG's are by NOT protesting during actual launch.

[Spherical]

Sounds to me like it's just an excuse for a junket to Florida. Go parade around the Cape for a few hours and annoy everybody and hit the beer joints in Key West after the sun goes down.

[Doodler]

Sounds to me like it's just an excuse for a junket to Florida. Go parade around the Cape for a few hours and annoy everybody and hit the beer joints in Key West after the sun goes down.

True, but with a shred of common sense, you can go down to watch the launch of a historical mission, park on a lawn chair without making a nuisance of yourself, then hit the Keys for margaritas and senoritas as you suggested.

[Spherical]

True, but with a shred of common sense, you can go down to watch the launch of a historical mission, park on a lawn chair without making a nuisance of yourself, then hit the Keys for margaritas and senoritas as you suggested.

Well, yeah, but who said anything about this crowd having common sense? If they had common sense they would not believe the silly claims made about RTG's and other things nuclear. To tell you the truth, I think it is a mistake for news editors to give these guys the air time and print space they get. I think if I were a news editor, I would tell my reporters to find out as much as they could about these folks, follow 'em around and do a FULL report on them.

[Doodler]

Well, yeah, but who said anything about this crowd having common sense?

You won the arguement right there.

[kucharek]

If I would be concerned about RTGs, I would be less concerned about reactors: When they are new, they are not radioactive. And when they are on the moon, even in the worst case they are no danger for earthlings. But I'm not concerned about RTGs...

[Bobunf]

Sounds to me like it's just an excuse for a junket to Florida. Go parade around the Cape for a few hours and annoy everybody and hit the beer joints in Key West after the sun goes down.

I don't think this is right. It's a long drive from the Cape to Key West, there's been lots of hurricane damage, and it's hard to find a reasonable place to stay. I think they'll hit the bars closer to the Cape.

Bob

[Bobunf]

Well, yeah, but who said anything about this crowd having common sense? If they had common sense they would not believe the silly claims made about RTG's and other things nuclear. To tell you the truth, I think it is a mistake for news editors to give these guys the air time and print space they get. I think if I were a news editor, I would tell my reporters to find out as much as they could about these folks, follow 'em around and do a FULL report on them.

Here's a partial report on Dr. Rashmi Mayur. He wrote for the War & Peace Foundation, “There should be no more such exorbitant probes as Cassini by those who are well fed and who want to remain busy in the name of science using research and development with the scarce resources needed for addressing our critical issues of survival on this unique planet earth. We need a good earth for all 5.9 million (sic) people.”

Dr. Mayur is Director of the International Institute for a Sustainable Future, President of Global Futures Network, an adviser to the United Nations on environmental issues, “an educationist and an expert in international development.”

This is a fundamental objection to any manned mission to Mars and, really, to any exotic search for knowledge. Should we feed the hungry or go to Mars?

Bob

[Wolverine]

Deja vu all over again...

Yep. Yawn.

[Sticks]

If these people really objected to the mission, they should have been protesting years ago. It's a little late now.

Could a govenor, senator or some judge mindful of re-election pull the plug on NASA launching?

Have activists tried resorting to law to get injunctions against proposed launches?

[Spherical]

I don't think this is right. It's a long drive from the Cape to Key West, there's been lots of hurricane damage, and it's hard to find a reasonable place to stay. I think they'll hit the bars closer to the Cape.

Bob

You are of course correct. That was an oversight on my part. I humbly apologize.

[Spherical]

Here's a partial report on Dr. Rashmi Mayur. He wrote for the War & Peace Foundation, “There should be no more such exorbitant probes as Cassini by those who are well fed and who want to remain busy in the name of science using research and development with the scarce resources needed for addressing our critical issues of survival on this unique planet earth. We need a good earth for all 5.9 million (sic) people.”

Dr. Mayur is Director of the International Institute for a Sustainable Future, President of Global Futures Network, an adviser to the United Nations on environmental issues, “an educationist and an expert in international development.”

This is a fundamental objection to any manned mission to Mars and, really, to any exotic search for knowledge. Should we feed the hungry or go to Mars?

Bob

The poor shall always be with us...

We are already helping everyone who will let us. India, for instance, refused our help after the tsunami. Indonesia required volunteer rescue workers to pay taxes on their equipment. The Somalis shot at us. Robert Mugabi and Kim Jong-il, both of whom the UN is reluctant to do anything about, are CREATING hunger.

I think the irrationality factor is still pretty high in this one.

[boppa]

Here's a partial report on Dr. Rashmi Mayur. He wrote for the War & Peace Foundation, ?There should be no more such exorbitant probes as Cassini by those who are well fed and who want to remain busy in the name of science using research and development with the scarce resources needed for addressing our critical issues of survival on this UNIQUE planet earth. We need a good earth for all 5.9 MILLION (sic) people.?

Dr. Mayur is Director of the International Institute for a Sustainable Future, President of Global Futures Network, an adviser to the United Nations on environmental issues, ?an EDUCATIONIST and an expert in international development.?

This is a fundamental objection to any manned mission to Mars and, really, to any exotic search for knowledge. Should we feed the hungry or go to Mars?

Bob

Hmm.. the Earth may be unique..it(hopefully IMO) isn't but without exploring we would never know would we?
(ok thats not totally true-as long as my `hypothetical' planet also doesnt have a Dr Mayur then we could possibly detect the probes they launched..)

hmm number 2.... all 5.9 million of us??
o..k...looks around at n.s.w.-yup all accounted for
seems nothing outside n.s.w.(where i live in Australia lol) exists then-or at least it's terra nullis... ;-)

hmmmm number 3....EDUCATIONIST
Exactly what is an educationist anyway
the few online mentions I found were similar to this one from
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/educationist

ed·u·ca·tion·ist (j-ksh-nst) also ed·u·ca·tion·al·ist (-sh-n-lst)
n.
A specialist in the theory of education.

however it was quite funny to read down a few lines...

Mentioned in References in classic literature
No references found

personally I would have thought that someone who hopes to be a `specialist' in education(or at least the theory' would have a `little' more knowledge as the name of the good dr in google returns no less than 133000 hits
( i have to admit i found the awarding of the `The World Peace and Love Lifetime Achievement Award' to Dr. Rashmi Mayur was um..interesting??

:-O
*

[boppa]

btw a quick further google reveals hes also now deceased
bummer :-(

[Spherical]

btw a quick further google reveals hes also now deceased
bummer :-(

Yeah, and this strikes me as a "waste of scarce resources", but then that's just me and I am well known as a curmudgeon. Be sure to take a peek at the home page.

http://www.memorialspaceflights.com/...rers/mayur.asp

And this sounds like a list of the usual suspects:

http://www.space4peace.org/board.htm

[Maksutov]

btw a quick further google reveals hes also now deceased
bummer :-(

I wonder who's channeling the guy to allow him to continue to comment on his favorite topics and be a general nuisance and busybody? Given my knowledge of the typical makeup of this anti-nuke crowd, they're usually loaded with New Agers, which means spiritualists, which means séance sessions, channeling, and Shirley MacLaine-esque stuff in general.

Meanwhile I bet if I were there, I'd recognize some of these folks. Only they'd look about ten years older.

BTW, for sticks, this bunch tried to get an injunction against Cassini, but failed, fortunately. Here's information about their last try at this:

Link 1

Link 2

[Maksutov]

Yeah, and this strikes me as a "waste of scarce resources", but then that's just me and I am well known as a curmudgeon. Be sure to take a peek at the home page.

http://www.memorialspaceflights.com/...rers/mayur.asp

Agreed.

I wonder if it's not too late to just dump some of his ashes into an interstage area on the Atlas 5? They could be compacted into a solid and encapsulated in iridium and graphite so as to prevent any contamination, even if there were an accident.

I'm sure a few additional grams would not impact vehicle performance. Meanwhile, there's nothing quite as good as delicious irony.

[Spherical]

Everything you ever wanted to know about RTG's listed in one place (click on the search button):

http://globalsecurity.insightful.com/jsp/rs.jsp

And the Manifesto of the Protestors:

http://www.space4peace.org/statement/concern.htm

Believe it or not, we are about to rape the planets for their resources and get rich doing it. Sounds like a great plan to me. I wish they had sent NASA a copy.

http://www.space4peace.org/statement/gnobj4.htm

quote from link:

"We stand on the brink of an era in which unrestrained and anarchic, slash-and-burn capitalism degrades the environment, while instituting no methods for conserving, forcing people to become rivals for shrinking natural resources."

So let's all start hating the United States right now and beat the Christmas rush.

[boppa]

So let's all start hating the United States right now and beat the Christmas rush.

looks enviously at the terra nullus outside n.s.w.

hmm...
bashes the locals over the head with a stick

hey it worked 200 years ago ;-)

(btw xmas rush was over um counts on fingers...waves hands around wildly- a few weeks ago)

[Spherical]

looks enviously at the terra nullus outside n.s.w.


(btw xmas rush was over um counts on fingers...waves hands around wildly- a few weeks ago)

Er...Well...We can do one of two things. We can hate at the normal rate and beat the next Christmas rush or we can hate real, real, fast and beat the last Christmas rush. Everything is relative, right?

[folkhemmet]

Yes, the launching of the New Horizon's mission could cause a harmful release of plutonium into the planet's atmosphere if the Atlas rocket carrying the space probe explodes on its way into space. However, the chances of this happen are less than the chances of dying in a car accident.

From http://www.flatoday.com/apps/pbcs.dl...38/1007/news02
"There is a one in 18 million chance that an accident could contaminate up to 115 square miles between Daytona Beach, Vero Beach and Orlando, the studies show."

I always get annoyed when people on the left say that space exploration is a waste of human resources. As Carl Sagan once said, "All species become either spacefaring or extinct." If humanity does not establish self-sustaining colonies off the earth then an inevitable planetary catastrophe (examples: asteroids, comets, supervolcanoes, etc.) will wipe us out. This fact seems to trumph Dr. Rashmi Mayur's argument. Having said that, I do think humanity should be doing a lot more to create a more just sustainable society-- a move which will make future exploration and the search for knowledge more rather than less likely. The two things should not be mutually exclusive.

In any case, I have been hoping for years to see the launch of this mission to Pluto. The historic mission will finally tell us what Pluto is like in detail and in doing so it will complete our basic reconnaisance of the solar system. Our space science missions are something that we should all be proud of as a species.

[kucharek]

Pro/contra human space flight isn't a left/right thing. Hey, it were the commies who did it first time :-)

[joema]

Yes, the launching of the New Horizon's mission could cause a harmful release of plutonium into the planet's atmosphere if the Atlas rocket carrying the space probe explodes on its way into space...

A few related points:

- The Plutonium-238 ceramic oxide used on RTGs has a half-life of 88 years
- The pure metallic Plutonium-239 used in nuclear bombs has a half-life of 24,100 years
- Over 10 metric TONS of pure Plutonium-239 have ALREADY been released into the atmosphere by over 2,000 atmospheric nuclear tests
- The few kg of Plutonium-238 ceramic oxide used in RTGs is insoluble ceramic, protected by layers of iridium, graphite, and finally by an aeroshell designed to withstand reentry
- Plutonium-238 has relatively low toxicity. The main risk is alpha radiation, which is stopped by your skin. You can safely hold it in a gloved hand. However, inhaled in dust form it's quite dangerous. The danger from eating it is about 1/200th as from inhaling it, but I wouldn't use it as a desert topping.

http://consolidationeis.doe.gov/PDFs...eetOct2001.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTG

[boppa]

A few related points:

- The Plutonium-238 ceramic oxide used on RTGs has a half-life of 88 years
- The pure metallic Plutonium-239 used in nuclear bombs has a half-life of 24,100 years
- Over 10 metric TONS of pure Plutonium-239 have ALREADY been released into the atmosphere by over 2,000 atmospheric nuclear tests
- The few kg of Plutonium-238 ceramic oxide used in RTGs is insoluble ceramic, protected by layers of iridium, graphite, and finally by an aeroshell designed to withstand reentry
- Plutonium-238 has relatively low toxicity. The main risk is alpha radiation, which is stopped by your skin. You can safely hold it in a gloved hand. However, inhaled in dust form it's quite dangerous. The danger from eating it is about 1/200th as from inhaling it, but I wouldn't use it as a desert topping.

http://consolidationeis.doe.gov/PDFs...eetOct2001.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RTG

bah `everyone' knows that a few grams is all that is needed to wipe out a city
hollywood has told us so..

trying to cunfuzzle us all with those `facts' things

next yall be saying we dont need 6 feet of lead to stop the radiation from the van `ellen' belts when we finally go to the moon
;-)

hollywood and some government officials have a lot to answer for

[ToSeek]

Could a govenor, senator or some judge mindful of re-election pull the plug on NASA launching?

Have activists tried resorting to law to get injunctions against proposed launches?

Yes. Additionally, the president (of the US) must personally sign off on any launches involving plutonium.

[galacsi]

Frazer patron saint of moderators said if a thread make you angry , just don't answer to it .



So i will not answer to these f...... posts !

[SolusLupus]

Frazer patron saint of moderators said if a thread make you angry , just don't answer to it .



So i will not answer to these f...... posts !

Uhhhhh...

Yay?