Bosnian Pyramid

[Black Mamba]

No...Osmanagic is a business man...so the first question that pops into my mind?

Is this "pyramid" good for business??

i dont know, but he said that he never will take any money for this

he even pay of his own money to this researshm aroubd 20 000 dollars

[Andre]

It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth.' and so it goes away. Puzzling.

Robert M. Pirsig

[Blob]

Hum,
Yeah, well even i, without any archaeological knowledge, would discount his theory.
But i personally wouldn't discount a nearer date for massive hill landscaping by Iron Age tribes.
Though, given the size of the hill it would be on a pre-existing geological feature, and be just cosmetic landscaping.

Given his outlandish claim, it is conventional to assume that the conservative view of archaeological experts are correct, and that the onus is on Osmanagic to prove his theory.

The `truth` is that, for now, the hill is just a curious geological feature.

[Black Mamba]

Given his outlandish claim, it is conventional to assume that the conservative view of archaeological experts are correct, and that the onus is on Osmanagic to prove his theory.

The `truth` is that, for now, the hill is just a curious geological feature.

who told you that ????

how can you say so when you are not a geolog , and you have not been there ????

do you know that geologists who work there said that stone blocks placed there , in that area it is not common such stone blocks


you can clearly see that stone blocks where placed , stone blocks on stone blocks in several layers

[Fram]

Is that last picture one block that has broken into pieces, or different blocks put together to make a wall (or floor or whatever)?
If they are different pieces, then why would you make such strange shapes?
So for the moment I assume that this is one slab of rock that has been broken. I wonder how that happened...
The thickness and uniform look of the layer above the rock does not give the impression of great age, but that is hard to be certain from a picture.
It looks to me, by the way, that underneath those rocks, there is again sand. This suggests that it is a hill shaped (or simply paved, perhaps it is a roman or medieval road or remnants of buildings?), not a true pyramid like the Egyptian ones.

This picture in the gallery is a mirrored one, by the way, i.e. only half of it is real. This is not labeled as such. The inscription looks rather new as well, but again this is hard to see on a pic. Where this rock comes from is not indicated either.

There is something there (which was known before our businessman arrived), but I hope our chance of having a good excavation of it is not ruined by this rushed, amateur operation...

[Blob]

To me the rocks looks like they have been smoothed by glaciation. The fracturing looks quite natural.

Try reading this link to Archaeology magazine it has a host of professionals who have spoken against the `evidence`.

http://www.archaeology.org/online/fe...gic/index.html

I have a open mind on this, but i will state again - The `truth` is that, for now, the hill is just a curious geological feature.


Opportunity rover image on Sol 725
^{Credit NASA/JPL}

[Blob]

Hum,
Professors from the Faculty of Mining and Geology at the University of Tuzla, acting members of the Geological explorations team that did geological studies of the Visocica hill near Visoko (the locality of an alleged Bosnian pyramid), presented today at a press conference in Tuzla the final results of their research completed at the request by the Foundation "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida sunca" Visoko.

The team leader Professor Dr. Sejfudin Vrabac said that they have concluded that Visoèica hill is a natural geological formation, made of classic sediments of layered composition and varying thickness, and that its shape is a consequence of endodynamical and egsodynamical processes in post-Miocene era.

According to Professor Vrabac who specialises in paleogeology, there are dozens of like morphological formations in the Sarajevo-Zenica mining basin alone. The Geological team report on Visocica, based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

Source

[Trantor]

I'm no expert and I have only seen this site from the pictures provided; but I have hiked in mountains many times over the years, and have seen many natural rock formations that look very similar to those pictures.

The 12,000 year old date given for the site is not a good sign.

Hopefully some real experts will take control and do some work there.

[Ara Pacis]

I think I know what happened. The Bosnian Pyramid was the natural archtype. All later manmade pyramids were modeled on it because it was the site of an ancient people with magical powers. Can I get a book deal now?

[Fram]

Thanks, Blob. I don't think this will stop everyone, but at least it will stop a lot of curious but sceptic people intowasting their time. Let's just hope that it stops the excavation itself, so a proper, slow one can be done later for those parts that are interesting (the settlement on the top, perhaps the tunnels).

[Black Mamba]

Hum,
Professors from the Faculty of Mining and Geology at the University of Tuzla, acting members of the Geological explorations team that did geological studies of the Visocica hill near Visoko (the locality of an alleged Bosnian pyramid), presented today at a press conference in Tuzla the final results of their research completed at the request by the Foundation "Arheološki park Bosanska piramida sunca" Visoko.

The team leader Professor Dr. Sejfudin Vrabac said that they have concluded that Visoèica hill is a natural geological formation, made of classic sediments of layered composition and varying thickness, and that its shape is a consequence of endodynamical and egsodynamical processes in post-Miocene era.

According to Professor Vrabac who specialises in paleogeology, there are dozens of like morphological formations in the Sarajevo-Zenica mining basin alone. The Geological team report on Visocica, based on the data collected in six drill holes at 3 to 17 m depths, is supported by the Research and Teaching Council of the Faculty of Mining and Geology, as well as the Association of Geologists of Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

beacuse those geologists came to Visoko first day, and only 2 hours they where on that place , they even did not excavate nothing , and they just disipear

and today i got news that those geologists get payed to say so, maybe to stop excavations, relly bad things happing around this pyramid, it is like some movie, some people dont want to see a pyramid in the hearth of bosnia, in europe, and they do everything to stop this excavations

do you know what they analized and came to that conclusion, they analized latest book of osmangich , hahahahah nad made such conclusion , so unprofesionall enough is enough

real profesionals are on the field on the pyramid in visoko

Thanks, Blob. I don't think this will stop everyone, but at least it will stop a lot of curious but sceptic people intowasting their time. Let's just hope that it stops the excavation itself, so a proper, slow one can be done later for those parts that are interesting (the settlement on the top, perhaps the tunnels).

problem whit all of you is that you dont know the real truth behind all this

just hope that it stops the excavation itself

never , i can garantie you, bosnian people are whit those who work there, even politicians which supriezed me a lot :surprised even polititian suport this project

only who dont suport this is jeolus bosnian archeologists and historians
if you only see them how they talk, how they lie to people , you would belive that osmanagich talk the truth, osmangich has arguments but those archelogist have nothing, only lies beacuse i saw it whit my own eyes


as i said, excavations going on very well, suport is comming from all places , and they have result, big stone blocks are found which form walls of the pyramid , in may egyptian experts are comming to bosnia and many many more volonters shall join them to excavate

[Duane]

Black Mamba: Please take the time to read our forum rules, and I would bring your attention especially to rules 2, 3 and 14.

This is a gentle warning.

[R.A.F.]

...some people dont want to see a pyramid in the hearth of bosnia, in europe, and they do everything to stop this excavations.

Oh I see now...it's all a big conspiracy...yeah, right.

"Color" me unimpressed.

[Black Mamba]

Translation audio commentary from one of the iniciators of the petition to stop the excavation of the Pyramid of the Sun, magister of archeology prof. Mirko Babić.

'After this TV documentaries and starting a petition against the excavation of the pyramid I finally came to the excavation site. It's Saturday, and here is 1st of May, so I decided to go on a little trip to see what really is happening here in Visoko. I dare to say that the most shocking and most daring history hypotesis is presented here by mr. Osmanagić, who built all his theories on a satellite shots which show us some strange stone structures in this valley. And his hypotesis was despised by the scientists who learned to look on everything from another point of view, and I must say that I can count myself in that group. But now that I'm here, it's obvious to me that we made mistakes in our description of Osmanagić's work. This indeed is the most important Bosnian archeological site from Middle-age and we cannot allow it to be destroyed, but now when I can see their work I must say that the ruins of old city of Visoko are not in any kind of danger ...(some irelevant things)... I am a member of a National Archeologic Museum Committee and I am sure that soon we will stand in public with new opinion of this work and this theory. ...(blablabla)... Now that I've seen all of this, I'm convinced that Osmanagić's intentions are of good nature, and that he's doing a completely legal job with his own economic resources so there is nothing bad to be said about him. Now I do believe that stones are not just a natural shape, but I'll have to spend much more time examining the whole case and they'll have to do much more excavation before I can accept his opinion that this is actually a pyramid.'

[snarkophilus]

Black Mamba, may I ask what your interest in this is? You have been rather vehement in your assertions that this is legitimate, but as far as I can see, you have no reason to be so certain. You've talked about having read geological reports of the area, and you claim to know all about it. Also, this seems to be the only thread you post to. When people have the slightest concerns, you jump all over them, posting dozens of pictures, without questioning the claimed result at all. (Aside: I note the pyramid in posts #62 and #82 doesn't look at all regular from the air.)

So what gives? What's your interest? Are you on site, a part of this dig perhaps?

[NEOWatcher]

Translation audio commentary from one of the iniciators of the petition to stop the excavation of the Pyramid of the Sun, magister of archeology prof. Mirko Babić.

SNIP but I'll have to spend much more time examining the whole case and they'll have to do much more excavation before I can accept his opinion that this is actually a pyramid.'

So his opinion is swayed but not convinced. Basically, he still waiting for convincing evidence just like us.
It is a pyramid...just natural

[Lianachan]

some people dont want to see a pyramid in the hearth of bosnia, in europe, and they do everything to stop this excavations

What about all the other European pyramids? What stance do these mysterious conspirators have on those? The oldest dated pyramid anywhere in the world is in Greece - not too far from Bosnia, globally. How come that's cheerfully accepted?

[Black Mamba]

http://www.bosnianpyramid.com/images...ortMay2006.pdf

Scientific Report May 2006

[Fram]

Not very scientific foir a scientific report, I have to say. Not even an author.
Anyway, the topographic map seems to show that the pyramids are not so clear and even as suggested, as the height lines (isoheights? iso)something anyway) are not very square at all.
I don't see how the two thermal inertia maps are the same either. The second one looks like it has been made to fit, and does not resemble the square drawn on the first one. The argument from the thermal inertia map seems very flimsy anyway, as the rocks and hills around the pyramids all have the same characteristics.
By the way, on the topographic map as used on page 4 of the pdf ("anomalies"), are Visocica, Pljesevica, and Buci the three pyramids that form the equilateral equidistant triangle? It's just that it doesn't look like such an "exact" one as was claimed a few pages further on. And again, they don't look like pyramids at all (certainly the latter two).

[Irishman]

All this talk of pyramids is strangely reminiscent.
http://www.enterprisemission.com/sheep.htm

Check out the pictures of features on Mars, including 5 sided pyramids with linear slopes and regular looking features. For fun, amuse yourself comparing the type of pyramidology being applied to the Bosnian "pyramids" with that done by Hoagland et al.

[eburacum45]

They are called contour lines; the iso word is Isohypse and I don't remember ever using it thirty years ago when studying geography at college.

But that is probably a failing in me, not my education.

[Fram]

They are called contour lines; the iso word is Isohypse and I don't remember ever using it thirty years ago when studying geography at college.

But that is probably a failing in me, not my education.

Thanks, Eburacum. Don't be too hard on yourself!

[Black Mamba]

http://img101.imageshack.us/img101/228/gradpira1dj.jpg
http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/6337/prilza0gg.jpg

http://img93.imageshack.us/img93/5333/blokov5ad.jpg

http://img50.imageshack.us/img50/434/blokovi1sl.jpg

it is a stone pyramid

no doubt

[NEOWatcher]

it is a stone pyramid

no doubt

Yes doubt.

First; If you think that the pictures are so convincing, how about explaining or relating your thoughts to them. We can't read your mind as to why you think the pictures are significant. (and I believe posting pictures like this is a no-no)

Second; All I see is a rock strata that has been broken up over time. Why would an ancient civilization carve their rocks in curvy lines like that?

Third; is the last one supposed to be a path? If I removed a layer of topsoil just about anywhere, it would look like a path.

[Jim]

(I really hate to get into this, but...)

The first picture is fairly typical of any mountain or large hill that has been covered by topsoil over the years.

The second picture... Well, if those are supposed to be steps in a stairway, I'd fire the contractor. The are very uneven and stop in the middle of nowhere. (Or did the bottom of the pyramid erode away somehow?)

The next two pictures are further evidence that the contractor should be fired. (He couldn't cut straight?) Actually, both pictures look fairly typical of a sedimentary conglomerate bed.*

Sorry, it's an interesting geological structure, but you haven't shown anything yet that says "man made."

* "...conglomerates ... are very resistant to weathering and cap the tops of mountains throughout much of their extent."
http://www.uky.edu/KGS/rocksmn/conglomerate.htm

[Trantor]

Interesting pictures. It's kind of hard to tell whether they are excavating or building on the hill. Perhaps both activities are going on.

[Black Mamba]

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/5837/nova4gl.jpg

new photos , stone blocks from pyramid of the moon

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7135/mjes7ed.jpg

http://img115.imageshack.us/img115/7396/mjes18ci.jpg[/quote]

[R.A.F.]

We can't read your mind as to why you think the pictures are significant.

Simply posting images and stating "it's a pyramid" is not convincing, particularly not on a science board.

...and I believe posting pictures like this is a no-no.

I only have access to dial-up, and I've "almost" decided to ignore this thread simply because I'm getting very tired of waiting for the images to load...

[aurora]

I'm waiting to see the tool marks. The articles state that the blocks are shaped by human hands, so I should be able to see tool marks, as well as the tools themselves (they must have been stone tools) and the quarries where the blocks originated.

I'm also waiting to see if any of the other hills nearby are underlain with the same rock.

I see no mention of that in the article linked, but I did not read the entire article. I did hear the researcher interviewed on the NPR geo-quiz recently, and he came across as very much like a salesman, which immediately raised questions in my mind.

This would be really cool if it was true, I'll say that much.

[Fram]

Those last pictures don't look like a pyramid at all (circular? That's a ziggurat then...), and pure from small pics look like a medieval stair, a road towards the castle / building on top.
I still have not seen any evidence that there is a pyramid, and I have not seen any evidence that there is any stone building (construction) older than Roman time there.