Banned
What is the best philosophy on home self-defense?
I would like to discuss the pros and cons of each.
Hand to hand training.
Handgun
Shotgun
Assault rifle
Chemical spray like CS or Mace
Tazer
Knife
Club
Electronic intrusion detection and police notification system
Under 25 lb small yappy dog (Yorkshire Terrier)
30 to 50 lb dangerous but probable not lethal dog (Pit bull)
Over 60 lb deadly dog or pack of dogs
Cheap house that nobody would break into.
I welcome your thoughts and comments.
Order of Kilopi
Very much depends on the laws in your locale. In Virginia it is legal to shoot people on your property. In New York it is legal only if they are in your house (you shoot him as he climbs in the window and he falls outside -- you are guilty of manslaughter). In Massachusetts law requires you to run away from an intruder -- you are only allowed to use deadly force if you have no avenue of escape. British law is so rabidly anti-gun, people have been known to go to jail for scaring an intruder with a TOY gun. Don't think it applies in Kansas, though
It also depends on the type of criminal common in your area. If most break-ins are teenagers trying to be tough, a mid-size dog is probably your best bet. If it is professional burglars, then the best thing is electronic intrusion detection and police notification system, possibly aided by a loudly yipping small dog (to ensure police will hear SOMETHING, should the thief defeat the security system). If your greatest fear is crack junkies, I'd get a .45 and aim to kill. You do not want him to sue you after you only wound him! And if what you fear are specific individuals who want to kill you personally for something you do not wish to divulge, then sell the house and move as far as you can.
Psychotic killers and break-in rapists are so rare compared to more common kind of criminal, I would never tailor the security to them. If one happens to attack your house... well, you can not be ready for everything.
Established Member
A shotgun is the best home defense weapon.
Established Member
12 gauge pump shotgun cut to legal limits (varies by state) with skeet shot. If you do have to fire, you will elliminate anything standing in front of you, however, the shot will not go through two layers of 1/2 inch sheetrock from 5 feet (reportedly, I haven't tested it). However, the sound of you jacking a shell into the chamber after announcing that you have a gun is also reported as being the highest part of the deterent. Everyone knows that sound and everyone knows NO good is closely following it.
Now as to penetrating the walls. I have shot squirrels with the 7.5 shot and watched as they were thrown by it only to run up trees and cuss me out. Then again, I've hit squirrels with 4 shot and it only goes through one side of the skin, squirrels are tough. But the light 7.5 shot doesn't have the kintetic energy necessary after going through one layer of sheetrock to get through another. I'm assuming that this is after dispersement, pointblank would probably just go right through. With a handgun, you have ability to get it around quick, but the bullet will travel straight through a wall without hardly slowing down, you could hit bystanders. At college we had a guy that decided to end it all with a 357. The bullet went through his head and the walls of two houses before lodging in the siding of the third house. You really have to worry about killing someone else on the other side of the perp.
As far as legality, the saying goes 'It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six'.
Other than that, remember Rule Number 13 of The Seven habits of Highly Succesfull Pirates.
Do Unto Others!
Established Member
Hand to hand training - Probably useless, if someone was serious about breaking in they are probably armed
Handgun - Probably good, easy to store somewhere safe so your kids can't get it but easy to wip out in an emergency
Shotgun - good as a weapon, but the only place safe to store it would be hard to get to in an emergency relative to a handgun. They are also harder to wield.
Assault rifle - same as shotgun, only worse. If your robber found this before you did it would be very bad
Chemical spray like CS or Mace - cheap, effective, relatively safe to leave lying around, easy to use, generally legal without any sort of permit, non-lethal (especially good in case someone tries to use your own weapons against you), and relative to guns are not very problematic if discharged accidentally (you may have to air out your car or apartment for a while, but there won't be any permanent damage). Modern ones usually come with invisible UV dye that can be used to identify the person later. However, if you aren't careful they can be nearly as dangerous for the person using it as the target. I have a bunch of these scattered around my apartment, but I have been trained to use them.
Tazer - you never want to be close enough to a robber to be able to actually use one of these, so basically useless
Knife - same as tazer, only more dangerous for you. It does have the benefit of being useful for something other than defense. I have a knife, but would never use it for self defense.
Club - Same as a tazer
Electronic intrusion detection and police notification system - probably the best. The police can be on their way before you even know what is going on. Also protects your house when you are not home, which none of the above items do. You also would be less likely to have to face the intruder yourself. Probably good to have this as the primary means of defense, then have a gun or mace as a backup
Under 25 lb small yappy dog (Yorkshire Terrier) - useless, any intruder could just kick it and it would be out of the fight.
30 to 50 lb dangerous but probable not lethal dog (Pit bull) - probably won't stop a determined thief, but might stop a novice or drunk person
Over 60 lb deadly dog or pack of dogs - see above. Any really dedicated thief will likely be armed with at least a crowbar, and more likely a gun, so a dog wouldn't be able to get close enough to do any damage. Would work on less experienced intruders, though.
Cheap house that nobody would break into. - I think you are underestimating thieves. A good thief can afford to pick the best targets, but others are more oportunistic vulture types that will steal anything they can find.
Banned
I see several problems with a shotgun.Originally Posted by Eoanthropus Dawsoni
It is very large and less than ideal for the confined quarters of a house.
Difficult to discretely store.
Requires both hands, awkward to hold flashlight, open doors, turn on light, negotiate corners.
Most likely to be wrestle away from you.
Sever recoil makes assessment of you first shot and follow-up decisions slower.
Somewhat limited capacity of bullets.
May be difficult for smaller weaker people to use.
As with all lethal the potential for lethal accidents is there.
The advantages of a shotgun include
Very lethal, incapacitating even to armor vested individuals
Scattershot increases likelihood of hitting target
Can double as a club
Very intimidating
Established Member
As I mentioned in another thread, I sell quite a few guns to people for home defense. My recommendation to my customers is that they buy a shotgun.
Any handgun is lethal, but unless one is using something of very large caliber, one can not count on stopping a bad guy before he does some serious damage. Handguns also require some practice, and a stray shot can quite easily pass through several walls and endanger other people.
A shotgun has much more power so is therefore much more likely to stop an attacker. It is also easier to make a good hit on target, and with most shotgun ammunition there is much less chance of a stray round hitting a neighbor. A shotgun also carries a very large psychological advantage. Even most crazy people know not to mess with a shotgun (One should never assume that the sound and sight of a shotgun will be enough to stop a bad guy, so if one is in a situation which requires self defense one needs to be ready to shoot).
If a person can not bring themselves to use a gun, then I recommend a large dog. Bad guys do not like to mess with large dogs.
Banned
Good idea to consider you threat specificaly for you situation.
Established Member
If you are comfortable with firearms, pistol or shotgun are what I'd recommend. Espescially if you live in a populated area. Their limited range would lessen the danger to your nieghbors. Studies of police and self defence shootings indicate that most shootings are in the range of about 10 feet or less. An assalt rifle or hunting rifle could penatrate walls and the round could travel a consideral distance. Also, don't get a gun unless you are sure you can shoot someone. Several people have been killed by their own weapon after being disarmed by an intruder.
Established Member
Dobermans are great dogs in general, and excellent guard dogs.
Banned
If they are armed there is a good chance it is your gun they found. Hand to hand is something you always have with you. It works in the dark if you know how to grapple. Can be less than lethal. However real fighting requires real practice. Most people do not want to engage in full contact sparring and grappling to just prepare for a potential intruder.I think the keep away from kids\easy access is a huge problem.Yea but a fifty round clip!It temporary nature may necessitate a backup like a club.You may not have a choice on the closeness. There are tazer guns as well.If you were to rely on it you would need some training.Never say never, you may not have a choice. If an aggressor reaches out to you you can slash at his hands to limit his capacity to hurt you.I strongly disagree. A club is easily lethal and disabling. Consider these points. Club can disarm an opponent with a knife fairly safely and even with a handgun you still have a good chance. A club is a very versatile and functional weapon. From the large wrench to chair leg to the bat. Handguns can double as very effective short clubs if he grabs you shotgun barrel you can pull it in tight an turn to get it back then crack him on the head.Expensive and intrusive to have. I fear the police and there guns on a false alarm as much as I fear an intruder. If they surprise the intruder you could become a hostage.I have seen many people try to kick a small aggressive dog and it never works. The dog can move faster than you kick. Though the do is not a real threat it occupies the intruders attention and as any mailman will tell you is a real hassle.I agree completely. There is no dog alive that can stand up to a halfway competent armed human. If the guy knows what he is doing he could handle any pack of dogs without being bit as well. Of course the issue may be to raise the alarm or discourage him in the first place. A rotteweiler bark pretty discouraging.
Banned
I agree with you that training is more important for the handguns effective use. I find the unwieldy nature of the shotgun a large negative. You must take a hand off of this two handed weapon to open a door, turn on a light or hold a flashlight. If you meet the intruder coming around a corner he is much more likely to wrestle a shotgun from you. What happens when you trip in the dark with the shotgun?All very valid and solid arguments in the shotguns favorBad guys hate any dogs and the small ones are less are cheaper to keep.
Banned
I can imagine many scenarios where shooting through walls would be highly advantageous.
Established Member
A shotgun is not unwieldy, it is in fact a very easy weapon to use effectively. Someone wrestle it away? Possible but not probable.
And it is very easy to fire a shotgun with one hand.
Established Member
Uhh... I think I ought to put in here that a pit bull definitely qualifies as lethal.
Banned
Only if you are a small child. I have not heard of any lethal pitbull attacks on full grown adults. Pit bulls are easily lethal to most any other dog. They lack the size to knock down an adult and attack its vital areas.
Banned
If it is not unwieldy why do police use a pistol as their primary weapon? Because the holster would be friggen huge.
I agree that it is easy to use.
Consider the person not trying to so much wrestle the gun away but to press into you while avoiding the muzzle. This puts you in a wrestling match and he has just as strong a grip on the gun as you do. With a hand gun you can shoot the person in close if you keep it at you hip. You still have the other hand free to defend the gun or gain distance.If it is so easy to aim and fire with one hand why does it have a grip under the barrel for you second hand to grab? Do you at least agree that they take two hands to chamber a new round? I understand the automatics can be less than 100% reliable.
Established Member
I dunno, pitbulls aren't as dangerous as they are stigmatized. They are kind of small for a guard dog, and a properly raised (not abused or neglected, plenty of human socialization) is actualy very friendly with people. Other dogs is kinda iffy though. Dangerous pitbulls are ones that the owner leaves chained to a tree outside most of the day, with little contact with humans. Those pitbulls are dangerous to everyone, not just an intruder. As would any dog treated like that.
Established Member
Is America such a dangerous country that this is an issue?
And if so, why?
Established Member
You started a thread about HOME defense, not police work.
Cops wear pistols or revolvers so that they can be ready to deal with unexpected situations. When cops anticipate that there might be shooting or other deadly violence, they use their shotgun or perhaps a rifle. Any cop who knowingly goes into a situation where there is an expectation of deadly violence, armed only with a hand gun, is a fool. Quite possibly a dead fool. That point is one of the first things I used to teach rookie cops when I was a training officer.
And as I said, it is very easy to fire a shotgun with one hand. But it is not very likely that one would have to do that.
Established Member
Need two hands? Not a problem
I have to go with the shotgun. A handgun, while still a good choice, has to be aimed somewhat accurately. A pistol is an aim and shoot weapon. You just can't try and shoot from the hip, unless practiced. A shotgun just has to be close. Point and shoot.
I think it takes more than just firearms/selfdefense training. You've got to plan for just such an ocation.
If an intruder is close enough to wrestle you for a firearm or club, you messed up. An intruder has the advantage. He can hide in a dark corner and wait for you. You have no idea where he is. Going in blindly is not a good or safe idea. He'll see you before you see him. Best to hold your ground and make noise. And a good pull on a shotgun is a good way to get anyones attention.
Order of Kilopi
o.O You're serious?
I live in Texas. The crime rate down here is very high. Not so high that you need to be 100% careful all the time, but high enough to mean that I'd want some form of personal defence at home.
The most crime down here has to do with burglary. However, other crimes, such as murder, are highest down here (it's partly why Texas is really big on the Death Penalty).
Home Defence is something that's always necessary; unless you live in, like, Dakota, where you don't have to worry about the other, oh, say, 5 people living in the same state :P
Banned
Wow. Where to begin? So much disinformation out there, much from Hollywood.
My best friend is currently a school teacher. He used to be a cop, 5th degree blackbelt in the Army as a special task force MP, then 12 years as a cop in California, during which one of among many duties was teaching residents how to improve their home/personal defence.
Truths:
1. Hand to hand training takes years (and many thousands of dollars) for it to be effective. IF you're more skilled than the average individual. Besides - they're usually armed and you're not. Unless you're considerably better trained than you, you're dead. Do, however, take a basic self-defense course. You'll never learn to counter someone who's studied any sort of matrial for any length of time, but it will help you to counter the unexpected while you resort to your other resouces.
2. Assult rifle, handgun, shotgun, gun period - unless you're CARRYING it on your person, most intruders are inside before you have time to get to where it's stored, much less unkey the lock, etc. Furthermore, most intruders aren't interested in you, and are very interested in avoiding you! Thus, self-defence might not even be your primary concern. Finally, every weapon except yourself can be turned against you.
3. Electronic intrusion detection and monitoring. Actually not a bad thing, as most of those caught for breaking and entering these days are because they tripped alarms.
4. Dogs. Their bark is worse than their bite. Heavy, agressive-sounding dogs and cassete tapes of their barking scare away most intruders. Pit-bulls are silent, thereby allowing the intruder into the house, and unless very well trained (and thus highly dangerous to your own children and neighborhood kids), are highly unreliable.
5. Cheap house that nobody would break into. Actually, lower to middle-class houses are broken into more often on a per-house by price bracket that more expensive houses. Cheap houses are simply cheap targets. Burglers know they're probably not alarmed.
6. City, county, state, and federal laws. Fortunately, in the US, if an intruder is coming at you inside your own home, you're free to fire without serious repucussion. Then again, you have to take him out before he takes you out while ensuring it's not your neighbor's grandmother sleepwalking into the wrong house because of her Alzheimer's.
7. Non-lethal weapons work for a short period of time, and I've seen no less than four policemen required to overpower a man who'd been maced by all four policemen. Tasers - not bad, but there are a lot of lawsuits out there. If they can't steal your paintings they'll steal your equity because of how you ruined their lives.
8. Getting back to guns, shotguns are far more involved in home gun deaths on a per-type than others, simply because they're so lethal. A small-caliber handgun with simple controls that's always kept either on the person or in a locked box is best - but ONLY if the individual is fully proficient in it's use. Fortunately, this only requires weeks of practice, not years, such has martial arts.
9. Shotguns, revisited. One person remarked, "it is very easy to fire a shotgun with one hand." I'm a 207 lb man who can bench press 250 lbs. It is NOT easy, much less easy, to fire a shotgun with one hand. I shoot both skeet and trap regularly, and used to waterski (VERY strong grip strength). Perhaps they scale El Capitan regularly, but my experience says it smacks of mere Hollywoodism.
Bottom Line:
I called my friend and ran these things through and here's what he came up with:
1. Post the security system monitoring stickers. Burglers rarely hit houses that are monitored when they can hit houses that are not.
2. Dogs that bark loudly and often are the best deterrant. They're also a pain in the neck. If you're not a dog-lover, don't waste your time and vet bills.
3. Intrusion detection systems run as low as $300 with installation for monitored IR motion detector systems with panic buttons and a very loud siren. Just three rules: 1) never set it off intentionally; 2) always pay your monitoring fee (or set it up via automatic withdrawal); and 3) always have a backup.
4. Trim you hedges. High plants are great hiding places for burglers.
5. Never tell your neighbors when you're going to be out of town. Instead, pick a trusted, disinterested third party. Don't have the neighbors pick, up your mail. Use a mail hold, instead (through the Post Office).
6. Do have ONE (your most trustworthy) neighbor pick up your newspaper, but simply tell him/her, the day you're leaving, about when you'll be back.
7. Put 911 on Speed Dial. Sure - "9" "1" "1" ia
Banned
[QUOTE=genebujold]Wow. Where to begin? So much disinformation out there, much from Hollywood.
My best friend is currently a school teacher. He used to be a cop, 5th degree blackbelt in the Army as a special task force MP, then 12 years as a cop in California, during which one of among many duties was teaching residents how to improve their home/personal defence.
Truths:
1. Hand to hand training takes years (and many thousands of dollars) for it to be effective. IF you're more skilled than the average individual. Besides - they're usually armed and you're not. Unless you're considerably better trained than you, you're dead. Do, however, take a basic self-defense course. You'll never learn to counter someone who's studied any sort of matrial for any length of time, but it will help you to counter the unexpected while you resort to your other resouces.
2. Assult rifle, handgun, shotgun, gun period - unless you're CARRYING it on your person, most intruders are inside before you have time to get to where it's stored, much less unkey the lock, etc. Furthermore, most intruders aren't interested in you, and are very interested in avoiding you! Thus, self-defence might not even be your primary concern. Finally, every weapon except yourself can be turned against you.
3. Electronic intrusion detection and monitoring. Actually not a bad thing, as most of those caught for breaking and entering these days are because they tripped alarms.
4. Dogs. Their bark is worse than their bite. Heavy, agressive-sounding dogs and cassete tapes of their barking scare away most intruders. Pit-bulls are silent, thereby allowing the intruder into the house, and unless very well trained (and thus highly dangerous to your own children and neighborhood kids), are highly unreliable.
5. Cheap house that nobody would break into. Actually, lower to middle-class houses are broken into more often on a per-house by price bracket that more expensive houses. Cheap houses are simply cheap targets. Burglers know they're probably not alarmed.
6. City, county, state, and federal laws. Fortunately, in the US, if an intruder is coming at you inside your own home, you're free to fire without serious repucussion. Then again, you have to take him out before he takes you out while ensuring it's not your neighbor's grandmother sleepwalking into the wrong house because of her Alzheimer's.
7. Non-lethal weapons work for a short period of time, and I've seen no less than four policemen required to overpower a man who'd been maced by all four policemen. Tasers - not bad, but there are a lot of lawsuits out there. If they can't steal your paintings they'll steal your equity because of how you ruined their lives.
8. Getting back to guns, shotguns are far more involved in home gun deaths on a per-type than others, simply because they're so lethal. A small-caliber handgun with simple controls that's always kept either on the person or in a locked box is best - but ONLY if the individual is fully proficient in it's use. Fortunately, this only requires weeks of practice, not years, such has martial arts.
9. Shotguns, revisited. One person remarked, "it is very easy to fire a shotgun with one hand." I'm a 207 lb man who can bench press 250 lbs. It is NOT easy, much less easy, to fire a shotgun with one hand. I shoot both skeet and trap regularly, and used to waterski (VERY strong grip strength). Perhaps they scale El Capitan regularly, but my experience says it smacks of mere Hollywoodism.
Bottom Line:
I called my friend and ran these things through and here's what he came up with:
1. Post the security system monitoring stickers. Burglers rarely hit houses that are monitored when they can hit houses that are not.
2. Dogs that bark loudly and often are the best deterrant. They're also a pain in the neck. If you're not a dog-lover, don't waste your time and vet bills.
3. Intrusion detection systems run as low as $300 with installation for monitored IR motion detector systems with panic buttons and a very loud siren. Just three rules: 1) never set it off intentionally; 2) always pay your monitoring fee (or set it up via automatic withdrawal); and 3) always have a backup.
4. Trim you hedges. High plants are great hiding places for burglers.
5. Never tell your neighbors when you're going to be out of town. Instead, pick a trusted, disinterested third party. Don't have the neighbors pick, up your mail. Use a mail hold, instead (through the Post Office).
6. Do have ONE (your most trustworthy) neighbor pick up your newspaper, but simply tell him/her, the day you're leaving, about when you'll be back.
7. Put 911 on Speed Dial. Sure - "9" "1" "1" is quick, but "8" "1" is quicker.
8. Vary your internal lights. Always very your routine.
9. When driving, try to vary your route and routine. Be unpreditible.
10. Always reconcile with your mate.
Well, there's more, but this'll do for now.
- Gene'
Last edited by genebujold; 2005-Nov-19 at 03:21 PM.
Order of Kilopi
It seems to me that home security shares some principles in common with computer security.
The idea isn't to harden your home so as to prevent the worst-case scenario: the crack-crazed psychopath who isn't thinking in terms of his/her own safety, the sort that requires an entire precinct of cops to bring down.
Home defense is mostly about defeating the little guy, the punk looking for stuff that can be pawned for drug money. This sort of crook is surprisingly dangerous if surprised and/or confronted, because they're likely to be operating without any sort of plan or preparation and will be panicky as a result. This is the sort of person who will go for the softer targets. The sort that will avoid dogs, is looking for signs of an undefended, unoccupied house (or one occupied by the elderly that can be easily cowed).
The ounce of prevention...
The idea is to make your home look ready. Evidence of the presence of a dog (such as a chain and/or doghouse in the yard), alarm stickers in the windows, unostentatious NRA bumper sticker on the car. Evidence of participation in neighborhood watch and/or block parent type programs, and suddenly, homes a few blocks down the road are looking a lot more tempting than yours. That's good enough.
In any case, a truly determined and skilled intruder is going to get in. The idea isn't to stop someone from making off with your plasma TV or whatnot. This is specifically what homeowner's insurance is for. Material goods are replaceable. Your family's lives are not. So, the idea is to specifically avoid confrontation with an intruder. John Wayning is a good way to get someone you care about killed.
Banned
Great post, Moose - very well said.
I like the sticker I saw one time that read:
WARNING: This home has been successfully defended against intrusion twice already, and with the practice my reflexes and aim are improving!
I also liked: Our home is protected by our two children, Rex and Killer. They're usually very hungry when we're away all day.
And my favorite: Please feel free to enter and take whatever you want. It's not worth crap, but my insurance company doesn't know that. Just leave signs of forcible entry so the police report looks right.
Established Member
The goal of gunfire for home defense purposes is the immediate incapacitation of an attacker. Any firearm can produce a lethal wound, however there is a wide difference between a lethal wound and immediate incapacitation.
Gunshot wounds incapacitate through a disruption of the central nervous system. This can be accomplished through either direct physical damage to the brain or spinal column, or by depriving the brain of oxygen through bleeding. In order to produce this damage the round must have enough mass and velocity to penetrate through several layers of clothing and five or six inches of tissue and bone, and it must have enough frontal area (larger frontal area means more bleeding) to cause damage as it passes through the body. Tissue damage may also result not by direct contact with the projectile, but through the shock wave that passes through the tissue in the area immediately around the wound.
Small caliber wounds can be lethal if they produce enough blood loss. However this rarely occurs quickly. It may take several minutes to several hours for fatal bleeding to occur and during that time an attacker can do fatal damage to their victim, before they bleed to death themselves. Small caliber bullets can produce immediate incapacitating damage to the CNS, but the chances of this happening are not sufficient to bet one's life on the odds. The bullet would have to pass through the entire torso or neck of an attacker and penetrate the bones of the spinal column, or perhaps strike the head and penetrate a vital area of the brain.
In the hand gun calibers, 9mm +P and .38 Special +P ammunition would be at the very, very low end of suitability for adequate self defense, and even those would probably require multiple hits. Personally, I would not rely upon them. A well placed .357 round can do the job, but it should be a heaver 158 grain bullet, flat nose or semi hollow point. The lighter (and faster) ammunition may not have enough mass to accomplish adequate penetration.
Moving on upwards, most .40 and larger calibers are suitable for home defense but we are still within the range in which multiple hits might be required to accomplish immediate incapacitation of a bad guy. A gun owner who is competent with their hand gun and practices with it at least a couple of times a year can probably rely on their hand gun for home defense. However once we get into the larger calibers, we run the risk of a missed shot passing though a few walls and hitting someone next door. Pistols also require regular attention. If bullets are kept in a magazine too long, the spring may lose it's ability to feed the weapon. Pistol owners should have at least two magazines and every couple of months remove the bullets from one and load them into the other (or better yet, fire them on the range). A revolver doesn't require much care and can sit loaded for years and still work when needed. However if that happens it implies that the gun owner is not practicing with the gun and that is not a good thing.
Rifles are not a good choice for home defense. Most rifle ammunition will pass through the body of the bad guy and possibly through a few walls. This presents a danger to neighbors, and any bullet that passes through the bad guy is wasted energy (although a high velocity round will often cause a lot of shock wave tissue damage).
For home defense a shotgun is superior to a hand gun or rifle because it will produce far greater trauma to the attacker, is less likely to penetrate walls and hit third parties, and is much easier to operate effectively. Shotgun ammunition carries considerable energy at close range, but looses velocity quickly. This is good because that means that an on target hit will cause a lot of trauma and a miss will not likely carry enough energy to pass through to the neighbor's house.
Most bird shot will not have enough mass to penetrate deep enough into the body of a bad guy to do the damage needed to stop an attack. BB rounds would probably do the job, but buckshot is much better. A normal 2 3/4 inch 12 gauge #00 shell will contain nine pellets, with a combined frontal area of .77 square inches. That will cause a tremendous amount of tissue damage and result in rapid blood loss. Although #00 buckshot is the most commonly used defense round, #1 buckshot is even better. A shell will contain 16 pellets, with a total of frontal area of 1.13 square inches. The #1 individual pellet mass is somewhat less than #00 and therefore has less tissue penetration, however it is still quite sufficient. Also, the #1 shot is even less likely than #00 to carry it's energy beyond the bad guy and do damage to unintended targets. Unfortunately #1 buckshot is not easy to find, so most people use #00 (which is certainly adequate for the job).
Typical number of projectiles fired without reloading:
Revolver: 5 or 6
Pistol: 7 to 15
Rifle: 5 to 30
Shotgun 12ga. #00 shot: 45
Shotgun 12ga. #1 shot: 80
Last edited by Eoanthropus Dawsoni; 2005-Nov-19 at 05:53 PM.
Established Member
If you hit someone in the heart, they will die. There is no need to wait for blood loss. The brain is no the only instantly lethal area.
I don't know about everywhere, but at least in my home town the police will check on your house several times a day when you are on vacation if you ask them to.
Banned
So you are saying a shotgun is inappropriate for unexpected situations.I do not see that many shotguns you on the cops TV show.I used to train the instructors in arrest techniques, gun retention, self-defense, ect for the Kansas Highway Patrol academy. I was offered a contract to train cadets but I could not make the commitment because I was fighting professionally at the time. A shotgun is to cumbersome to put away when the situation defuses, it becomes impossible to cuff, use CS, tazer, or a baton. When you see an office with a shotgun he has other offices around to perform the duties.I believe you have experience handling a gun. I do not believe you have experience in dealing with intruders. If an intruder hears you chamber a round in you shotgun he may start shooting through the door. I you are trying to look around without alerting him a shotgun makes this more difficult. If he surprises you in you bedroom you will probable not be able to get it out and pointed at him. If you end up in a struggle his knife or handgun will probable get you first.
Banned
If you are overly triggerhappy and shoot you kid going to the bathroom you have also messed up.Unless he responds by shooting.
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