If you don't believe the heat shield, then you're not only calling NASA liars, but the Russians and the Chinese, who use basically the same technology on their reentries.Originally Posted by Moon Man
Vulcan Administrator
If you don't believe the heat shield, then you're not only calling NASA liars, but the Russians and the Chinese, who use basically the same technology on their reentries.
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.
Order of Kilopi
I never try to guess someone's age based on how immature he is. There are many people that are significantly older that are quite immature. (Hoagland, for instance, seems to only be able to back up his own immaturity by sounding like he knows what he's talking about.)
Established Member
No. 1G means 9.81 m/s^2 which is a unit of acceleration.
Established Member
Saying that "G's mean zippo" doesn't mean anything.
If I say "gravity is irrelevant" does that mean that I can fly all of a sudden?
You have to at LEAST have a basic understanding of the physics involved, otherwise all you are proving is your total ignorance.
Banned
I don't see any mention of G's in this link, which proves it doesn't apply as I said.
Edit:. I see it. my bad.
Order of Kilopi
Which is quickly becoming a redundant fact, I might add.
Banned
How could it burn away..? I don't believe it and I'm asking for proof.
Established Member
Oh great - the universe will bend to the will of Moon Man.
Established Member
And with that, Moon Man, you've left Planet Sense so far behind that you'll probably never find it again. You claim to understand the Apollo re-entry so well that you're able to prove it impossible, and YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND WHAT Gs HAVE TO DO WITH DECELERATION?
I've seen some spectacular displays of ignorance among hoax proponents, but this really is something special.
Bad Post-Doc
So I thought of something while slogging through this thread.
I'm 28, to be 29 in less than a month. Because of this fact, those around here who spend time arguing with HBers tend to be more inclined that I would believe in a hoax because I don't remember Apollo. (On account of that whole not having been born yet thing.) However, our graciously un-banned newbie assumes I'd be more likely to believe it was real because I don't remember.
Now, I assume that we've more experience in dealing with HBers than [b]Moon Man[/i], so this would indicate that, once again, he's wrong. He certainly won't be presenting new and exciting evidence of a hoax any time soon, given that he needs you people who know what you're talking about to do his math for him.
_____________________________________________
Gillian
"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"
"You can't erase icing."
"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
Vulcan Administrator
The Apollo 15 flight plan is here.
The time from first significant atmospheric drag to drogue chute deployment is given as 7 minutes, 18 seconds.
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.
Vulcan Administrator
Ever stick your hand outside the window of a moving car? What do you think would happen to your hand (assuming it isn't just ripped away) if you were moving at 25,000 mph?
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.
Established Member
Moon Man, for someone who claims to already know the moon landings were faked, your ignorance of the topic is appalling.I've asked for exact calculations as I don't know them. The experts on here refuse to provide the data. You send me links and a whack of scientific numbers and say; figure it out. Is there a problem having someone simply provide the answers or is the answer that you can't figure it out either..?
We are not spoon-feeding you with the information because you claim to already know what the answer is. We want to know how you’ve arrived at your conclusion based on the information you do have, not on the information you’ve yet to acquire.
If you don’t have the data and want us to help you, then don’t claim to know Apollo was faked before you’ve even looked at the appropriate data.
The capsule decelerates due to atmospheric drag during which time the astronauts experience high g-forces. It’s very simple to figure out the time required: t = v/a where t is time, v is velocity, and a is acceleration. If the average deceleration during atmospheric reentry is 4 g, then the time require to lose 11 km/s is,The capsule basically free falls after re-entry and it's descent is therefore less then 8 minutes. We watched it splash down. We saw it on film for at least 30-45 seconds before splashdown. Therefore, if it's descent is less then 8 minutes, (and it has to be because it's free falling, so lets say it's 6 minutes) and since we saw it for 30 seconds or so of that 6 minutes (and it's already slowed to next to no speed) then it's completely impossible to believe that it magically slowed from 11 kms a SECOND, some 18 to 24,000 mph in 5 and a half minutes of straight free falling.
Impossible.
t = v/a
t = 11,000 / (4*9.81) = 280 s
Temperatures at the heat shield surface reached about 4000 degrees F, but the shield charred and burned away carrying the heat along with it. The shield was made to do this; that is why it is called an ablative heat shield.Moreover, the capsule was at least as hot as the shuttle is on re-entry. 4000 degrees F. It is impossible for the capsule to have completely cooled off by the time it hit the water. There was NO stream coming from the capsule upon splashdown.
Order of Kilopi
Moon Man, I'm tired of this game. You dance, but not to the beat you set up.
To quote the Original Post (OP):
There is no evidence (or "proof") that you provide. You ask US to provide all the evidence FOR you, and then when we give you the mathematics and facts, your full responce is to say, "I don't believe it...", or "It doesn't matter because I say so", or whatever.
This already proves that you're either
A) A liar and a charlatan that dances with words
or
B) Grossly mistaken on what the claim, "I will provide proof" means.
You're lucky you've lasted this long on this board, mainly because people vied for you being un-banned, mainly because you did promise to grant proof within a day. This was rather kind of them, and has given you a chance to come up with evidence.
However, I greatly doubt that you are capable of providing any research or facts yourself, and every post you makes only turns that great doubt into certain doubt.
Established Member
Here is a definition for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gee
"g (also gee, g-force or g-load) is a non-SI unit of acceleration defined as exactly 9.806 65 m/s"
See there? Acceleration. G means acceleration (or deceleration). So when you hit the brakes on your car, you're pulling G's and slowing down, decelerating.
Your question is, "how can you slow to a stop from 11kms in 5 minutes?" The answer is, "you put on the brakes!" How hard do you have to hit the brakes? Well, you have to do about 3.7 G's if you slow down at a constant rate. That's really not all that hard. In truth, the Apollo capsules slowed down in spurts. At times, they pulled nearly 8g's. That wasn't comfortable I'm sure, but it's certainly well within the realm of possibility.
Do you understand?
Does "exact descent time"mean the time from when they entered the atmosphere until the chute deployed or the time from when they entered the atmosphere until they landed??We need the exact descent time. If anyone knows. I don't.
Here are the times from entering the atmosphere to landing:
Apollo 7 = 937.0 seconds
Apollo 8 = 869.2 seconds
Apollo 9 = 1,003.8 seconds
Apollo 10 = 868.5 seconds
Apollo 11 = 929.3 seconds
Apollo 12 = 845.9 seconds
Apollo 13 = 835.3 seconds
Apollo 14 = 852.8 seconds
Apollo 15= 778.3 seconds
Apollo 16 = 814.0 seconds
Apollo 17 = 801.0 seconds
ok?
Banned
What's this HBer stuff you peeps keep referring to..?
Order of Kilopi
"Hoax Believer". As in, "Believers of the Moon Hoax"
Established Member
By the way, I asked can you determine lost speed from that diagram I gave you. Lost speed is the area between the horizontal axis and the curve. Lets form a triangle in the middle. It's height is at 6.5 Gs which is 64 m/s^2. The base of the traingle is about 200 seconds long. Thus the area 6400 m/s. And you can see that there are other areas outside the triangle consisting about half of the total area. Thus lost speed would around 10 000 - 13 000 m/s which is about 36 000 - 46 800 kph. The real lost speed was about 40 000 kilometers per hour.
Established Member
Enough heat will vaporize anything. What's the big deal here? Same thing happened to the heat shield of Galileo's Jupiter descender.
Established Member
I'm loving it! I'm so glad that toseek unbanned him. I'm going to be telling stories about this guy at Thanksgiving dinner!
Banned
Have you wondered why the rest of the Apollo missions were cancelled when Nixon wasn't going to be around to control them..?
They were already planned and set to go so don't say because there was nothing more to discover.
How did Nixon talk to Apollo 11 crew on the 'phone'..?
Order of Kilopi
The Apollo missions started up when Kennedy was in office. Not only that, but Nixon said that the Apollo missions were Kennedy's project -- not his own. In fact, Nixon had looked for every excuse to destroy the funding to NASA.
Established Member
The program was canceled because the taxpayers lost interest after the race with the Soviets was won. You can't keep going to the Moon without funding.
Banned
Don't forget to mention those amazing NASA batteries that withstand -250 below F cold and 250 degree above F for over 75 hours. 250 degrees above F is beyond the boiling point.
And don't forget to mention the immediate astro-not responses to Houston.
All of which proves it was a hoax.
Established Member
WHOA! HOLD ON! We can't move on until we reach some kind of conclusion on this deceleration thing! Have you read the replies? What do you think?
Order of Kilopi
By the way: SPECULATION IS NOT EVIDENCE!
Urgh.
Established Member
Also don't forget that the first flight to the Moon, Apollo 8, occurred while Johnson was still in office.
Banned
The funding was already in place. JFK made the plans but they were impossible to carry out. In 1967 you couldn't even get off the ground. Nixon was responsible for this entire hoax, not JFK.
Established Member
Welcome back Moon Man. Roger that. Go to ping. Roger that Houston.
"Go to ping"? Is that, ah, supposed to mean anything?
So are you saying the caspsule was doing 11 km a second on re-entry..?
The "entry interface" is usually (and was for Apollo) defined as 400,000 feet altitude. This is the approximate altitude when the aerodynamic and heating effects become significant. Peak G-forces are experienced about a minute and a half later. The radio blackout (due to plasma around the spacecraft) ends about three and a half minutes after entry interface; the bulk of the spacecraft's speed has been shed at this point.
The heat shield is jettsioned at about 24,000 feet, and the drogues are deployed just after that - about 8 minutes after entry interface. The main parachutes are deployed a little under a minute after the drogues. Both drogues and main 'chutes were deployed "reefed" and opened over about an 8-second period for smooth loading. Splashdown occurs about 14 minutes after entry interface.[/b]
Now we need the exact descent time from re-entry to splashdown..?
See above. The Apollo 11 flight plan had the time from entry interface to splashdown as 13 min 55 sec., but of course that varied from mission to mission and from planned to actual.
What was the capsule speed when the chutes deployed..?
About 175 mph for the main parachutes.
We're getting closer to exposing the impossible truth.
How about just coming out and saying what your "impossible truth" is, rather than trying for a big dramatic buildup? 'Cuz frankly, your lack of knowledge and failure to do even the most elementary research - you can find all this stuff on the Web pretty easily - does not support much in the way of anticipation.
Established Member
The Appollo missions were on the drawing board long before Nixon.
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