Banned
It is known that the moon had been separated to two parts about 1425 years ago, and these two parts were seen clearly by people on Earth. The question is: Is it known how many days these two parts stayed separted before joining again, and what was the distance between them?
Thank you
Established Member
To put it very mildly, this is highly unlikely. What makes you think 'it is known"? What's your source?
Order of Kilopi
It is not known to me. Can you provide me someplace to read about that amazing and unlikely event?Originally Posted by Anan
Order of Kilopi
Welcome to the Board Anan. Are you referring to Surah 54 of the Quran?
Established Member
This separation definitely didn't happen. The consequences of such an event would be clearly visible today on our much-studied neighbour, and there is no sign whatsoever of this event.
Order of Kilopi
Here's a link to what, I think, Anan is referring to. It is a commentary on a section of the Quran that mentions the Moon splitting. Anan noting "1425 years ago" places this supposed splitting event at around the time of the Prophet.
Banned
It is known because this information is nentioned in Surah 54 of the Holy Quran which is called "The moon", and that was a miracle to prove that prophet Mohammad is a messenger of Allah.
Thank you
Order of Kilopi
Wow ....
See Guys, THIS Is What Happens, When we Refute, The Fundamentalist Christians!!!
We Get Fundamentalist Muslims, instead ...
BTW, Anan, Welcome, But, It Didn't, Happen!!!!
Banned
Additional information:
Astronaut saw a kind of aplitting in the moon, and put a theory that the moon may be first of two parts which then joined with each other, hence, a muslim scientist told them that the had acyually splitted, after taht some non-muslim scientists believed that Prophet Mohammad was realy a messenger of Allah and they bacame muslims.
Thank you
Established Member
Sorry, your book is wrong on this point (or your interpretation of it is wrong). There is absolutely no scientific evidence to support the claim. The Moon has had essentially its current configuration for about 3.8 Billion years, with the exception of smaller impact craters and the modification of the surface by constant bombardment of small asteroids and comets and their secondary craters since then.
Jim.
Order of Kilopi
Again, WOW ....
Sounds Like a Retelling, of This:
Repeat, It Didn't, Happen!!!
Banned
Thank you triangleman for supporting me
Established Member
Anan, this is one of those stories, like Joshua at Jericho or the Star of Bethlehem, which, if it happened as described, cannot be explained scientifically. The alternatives are either that it did not happen as described (for example, the moon did not split, but clouds or some other weather phenomenon caused the appearance of splitting), it did not happen at all, or divine intervention (and if we allow that possibility, we can explain anything we like).
As for this story:
Unless you can give us some names and references (Which astronaut on which mission? Which Muslim scientist? Who became Muslims? Where was all this reported?) I am not prepared to believe a word of it.
Order of Kilopi
No problem, although you should try to providing supporting evidence for the statements that you make. I doubted that most of the astronomers and other posters here had ever heard of the Moon splitting that you asserted was "known".
I'm afraid that you are going to find that the people on this board, myself included, do not agree with the assertion that the Moon split in two. This makes your other questions (how long they stayed apart and what distance) moot.
I've done some more searching because my initial reaction was that if the Moon had split in two back then it would have been recorded by other cultures, especially China, Europe and Mesoamercia. This odd islamic website has a bizarre reaction to anyone bringing up that particular point.
This topic is getting interesting!Yet thoughtless rejecters say, "It did not occur, as it is not mentioned in the histories of such people as the Chinese, Japanese, and Americans." A thousand curses upon such bootlickers of the Western philosophers!
Moderator
Assuming this was some kind of illusion, what atmospheric phenomena could give such an illusion.
The only thin of of the top of my head, was that there was some kind of reflection of a waxing or waning moon on a cloud of ice crystals. You would see the actual moon plus the reflection of the moon. As at time of waxing and waning you do not see a full disc, you thus get the illusion that the moon has split.
This explanation also has the benefit that it is local to a region and thus is not reported by other observers in other countries.
The only problem with this, is would a cloud of ice crystals act as such a mirror.
Administrator
When I first read Anan's post, I thought he had the date wrong, and he was referring to the observation of Gervase of Canterbury on June 18, 1178.
Some people have suggested that this might have been the event that created the crater "Giordano Bruno". If so, perhaps there is some other lunar crater that might be associated with the Prophet's event (thought that seems unlikely).On the evening of June 18, 1178] after sunset when the moon had first become visible a marvelous phenomenon was witnessed by some five or more men...Now there was a bright new moon...its horns were tilted toward the east; and suddenly the upper horn split in two. From the midpoint of the division a flaming torch sprang up, spewing out, over a considerable distance, fire, hot coals, and sparks. Meanwhile the body of the moon which was below writhed, as it were, in anxiety...the moon throbbed like a wounded snake. Afterwards it resumed its proper state. This phenomenon was repeated a dozen times or more, the flame assuming various twisting shapes at random...Then after these transformations the moon from horn to horn...took on a blackish appearance. The present writer was given this report by men who saw it with their own eyes, and are prepared to stake their honour on an oath that they have made no addition or falsification in the above narrative.
But then I remembered that someone else had recently posted to the UT forum saying that he thought that the moon that the Holy Quran was referring to was actually Iapetus.
In any case, I have to go along with JohnW on this one. We have no lingering physical evidence outside the eye witness accounts in this book that the moon was split, and that if we invoke divine intervention, we do not expect to find evidence either.
Forming opinions as we speak
Member
Anan.
The Earth’s moon has been imaged with very sophisticated equipment for decades at a variety of wavelengths (radar, visible light, infrared light etc.) in such great detail that we now have very good maps of the entire moon.
http://www.lns.cornell.edu/~seb/celestia/moon-4k-18.jpg
If such a fantastic event had actually taken place, we would certainly have found evidence of this by now.
No such evidence is to be found.
Some more information about the moon:
http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/planetary.../moonpage.html
Established Member
Would it be possible to get a reverse mirage? You'd need cold air under hot air to do it, but that might be feasible. The boundary layer would need to be smooth - although it sounds like the moon was jumping around a fair bit in the Quran version, instantly coming together and all that.
Order of Kilopi
My Thought ...
Removed Offensive Statement - Zaphod, this is a warning!
Then, again, That's Usually my Explanation, for ALL of These, Other Worldly Observations, Regardless of Tradition!!!
Last edited by antoniseb; 2005-Sep-15 at 01:59 AM. Reason: Statement very offensive to some cultures.
Established Member
Maybe he just had a splitting headache....
Established Member
If the moon had split in two in recent history, the surface cratering record would be completely reset and the ancient Mare would not have survived intact to be dated by samples returned from the Moon by Apollo astronauts. A very substantial spike would have been evident in the samples as well corresponding to that young age. It was not seen. If it had split and re-acreted, the splitting event would have caused a very substantial meteor shower that would be the stuff of legend, even more prominant than the splitting itself since it would have been seen much closer to home in our own atmosphere. It might even have caused a mass extinction event due to dust loading in the atmosphere. There is no record of such an event. If someone saw the moon appear to split, it was either their imagination or, perhaps like the 1178 event, very bad seeing or clouds as the moon was setting.
Jim.
Established Member
Thanks for clarifying my earlier assertion with some detail there Jim
Here is an example of some mirage effects - a superior mirage is apparently the term for what I was previously describing.
This whole thread must be right on the edge of what is permissible under the board rules....
Order of Kilopi
Sorry ...
I figured, I was Keeping on, The Riight Side of the Line, there ...
I will Clarify, my Statement, here:
I believe Mohammed, was Recording things as he saw Them, and Not, Necessarily, as They Looked, or even were.
Again, I am Sorry.
Member
Anan,
As with all religious text, it's simply a matter of faith. According to the Bible, the earth and stars were created in seven days and Jesus was a product of immaculate conception. There is absolutely no scientific evidence that any of these events actually occurred. Therefore you would need to look into your own religious beliefs and draw on your own faith that miracles of the Quran are real. You won't find much evidence in the scientific community.
Banned
Maybe a bright supernova circa 600AD ?? Heh, who knows. I think the nearest candidate was the famous 1006AD supernova.
Order of Kilopi
I should state first of all that I'm not agreeing with the idea itself, but I would point out that if some supernatural being had the power to split the moon in two, surely he would have the power to put it back together again well enough that we'd never notice the evidence!
Personally, I would be interested in whether there was some phenomenon, like a meteor strike or some atmospheric phenomenon or something, that made a big explosion and gave the impression to earthbound observers that the moon had somehow split. Maybe a comet passed close by, and passed in between the moon's orbit or something like that.
But ultimately, if a person is going to believe in an omnipotent being who can bend whatever rules it wants to bend, then there is no arguing logically. We can mention that the Chinese, etc., failed to see it, but a person believing in such a thing could rebut that the divine being had erased their records, or alternatively, had done something to prevent them from viewing it!
As above, so below
Order of Kilopi
If you want to look at this purely as a faith-based issue then the website I linked to in my last post does answer Anan's questions, as it implies that the split was for a short amount of time, likely an hour at most, which also implies that the two halves would not have been far apart. Of course once you invoke divine powers then the two halves could have been 100,000 miles apart and quickly put back together.
Back to evidence-based approaches. I have not found any indications that more nearby cultures, such as the Byzantines or people in South Asia, had recorded this event. With this and other things that posters here have pointed out, taking a literalistic interpretation of Surah 54:1 is not supported by available evidence.
Are there any Muslims on the board who can offer other interpretations of the passage?
Moderator
6 days, then God rested on the 7th
Actually that is a Catholic teaching about Mary see here, Jesus was the result of a virgin birth
I realise there will be people who do notsubscribe to these, but please when describing them could we get the details of the belief right
Back to the topic
I remember from Phil's book about how he was explaining why stars twinkle and appear to jump about. Could this happen with the moon, given the right conditions?
Honored Member
Since he's omnipotent, I'm sure he needed the rest. Maybe some IV-administered electrolytes too.
I wonder what his brothers and sisters thought about that?
Soup du jour.I realise there will be people who do notsubscribe to these, but please when describing them could we get the details of the belief right
Stellar scintillation occurs because stars as seen by our eyes are essentially point sources, which are easily affected by the lensing effects of atmospheric turbulence. The Moon, being quite a bit larger angularly than a point source, is generally unaffected by these atmospheric effects and therefore doesn't "twinkle". However it's not immune to atmospheric distortion, as can be plainly seen by observing the Moon at high power when it is close to the horizon. But unless there was some kind of extraordinary atmospheric phenomenon (perhaps a really pronounced inversion, for instance), the Moon will be seen as a single entity. But out in the desert, one can see many interesting atmospheric effects. Mirage, anyone?
In addition, re the "split Moon" legend, well, most prophets seem to spend a lot of time out in the desert, or otherwise in some sort of isolation combined with things like fasting. What nutritional and sensory deprivation will do to a person's cognitive abilities is well-documented.
Administrator
Hi Maksutov,
It is easy to say things that are disrespectful of other people's religions. We may eventually forbid discussion of religion and or politics on the board again, and this kind of post is part of the reason. Please save this kind of analysis for the "Against The Mainstream" topics.
Forming opinions as we speak
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