Established Member
Hey all,I have a question that needs asking:If Gus Grissom believed that NASA would not be ready to fly to the moon by the end of the decade,why did he continue to support NASA in it's endeavor????Why didn't he quit NASA and blow the whistle then????Why was he still an astronaut???Answer that question,you MoonHoaxers!!!!BTW,anyone who wants to can comment on this subject.Please feel free.
Established Member
Who says that Gus Grissom believed that NASA would not be ready to fly to the moon by the end of the decade? Reference, please. Everything I've read suggested that he thought he'd be the man to make the first landing. Maybe you're thinking of Gus's reservations with the Block 1 Command Module that eventually killed him.
I'm sure that many involved with Apollo had moments of doubt that they'd be ready in time. That's not the same as 'believing they wouldn't'.
Established Member
That is one of cruxes of the conspiracy theorists arguments.That Grissom was going to blow the whistle on NASA.So they had to bump him off.Hence,The Apollo 1 fire.
Established Member
Ah, sorry, Gman. I thought you were proposing this as the proof to end all doubt that Apollo was a hoax. My mistake.
Order of Kilopi
That's why he was killed. NASA found out that he was going to reveal all and killed him before it happened. The HBs will tell you he supported NASA because if he didn't NASA would do anyway with his family.
Moderator
If they wanted to bump him off, then being mown down by a "drunk driver - hit and run" would have been a better way. No need for a tiresome senate invesatigations committee into why a test rig caught fire
Order of Kilopi
I don't think Grissom thought they'd never get to the moon on time. He was a bold critic, but in the pursuit of excellence. That's just how some people approach engineering. Grissom was tapped to take out the lead ship in both the Gemini and Apollo programs. That's because he's the guy who found problems and saw to it that they were fixed. Just because you find something to criticize doesn't mean you have to pack up and go home.
Established Member
Next time someone comes up with "Gus was murdered!", I'm inclined to respond with "But how do you know Gus is really dead?"
Established Member
Yeah, but if Gus is still alive, how do you explain his son Scott?
Jim.
Established Member
My point is if he thought that Nasa was not going to be able to walk on the moon,why was he still working for NASA,and flying their spaceships?????
Established Member
Yes, you'd think a high-profile whistle-blower like Gus would be able to pull out of the project and thus gain all the headlines he wanted to to 'expose' the hoax, wouldn't you?
And the fire seems like a pretty expensive and high-profile way of silencing him, too. Personally, I'd have cut the brake lines on his Corvette or something.
Order of Kilopi
I guess if we're talking about conspiracy theory Bizarro-World, then the same question would have to be asked of all the astronauts.
Conspiracy theorists claim several astronauts were killed -- the ones like See and Freeman and Givens who died in "accidents". If all these astronauts were killed because they were about to reveal the hoax, then why didn't the other astronauts eventually catch on, straighten up, and fly right? Apparently as of 1991 -- when Jim Irwin was "killed" -- they still hadn't figured out that if they spilled the beans, or even thought about it, they'd get bumped off or their families sent off to who-knows-where.
Or on the other side of the coin, many of these men were highly intelligent and had excelled both in academic studies and practical experience. Many were former combat pilots. Yet none of them was smart, brave, and resourceful enough to figure out how to evade NASA and its henchmen and get the story out without getting himself or his family killed.
Methinks there's a bit of projectionism going on. The astronauts and engineers associated with Apollo were men and women accustomed to doing great things, to being the top of their disciplines. There is no incentive for such people merely to appear to have succeeded. For such people there is no pleasure in the fruits of deceit. These are people who can succeed. Being satisfied with deception is a quality held only by people for which there is no other way to be praised.
Order of Kilopi
And the fire seems like a pretty expensive and high-profile way of silencing him, too. Personally, I'd have cut the brake lines on his Corvette or something.
But even that would be investigated. Why not a fork in the toaster or slipping in the shower?
Just because someone is immoral (or alleged to be) doesn't mean he's an idiot. Who's going to order Grissom -- and two other innocent men with families who will ask questions -- killed on NASA property in a NASA spaceship in a way that makes NASA look careless and incompetent? If the goal is to preserve the program, why would you bring down the wrath of Congress and the scrutiny of the FBI -- J. Edgar Hoover's FBI?
And what kind of bureaucracy -- evil-intentioned or otherwise -- is going to let a problem escalate to the point where someone has to be killed? The question is not why Grissom would continue to play ball with NASA; the question is why NASA would keep letting him pitch.
Order of Kilopi
Ah, but why haven't all the (prominent) HBers already met a 'Grissom fate'? Perhaps it's so all the weak-minded, lily-livered, {insert your favourite perjorative here} can be lured into crawling out of their holes (the better to round them all up, prior to shipping them to Gitmo)?
Established Member
Good job Nereid.I could not have said better myself.
Established Member
Simple... either he's in on the hoax (the "Gus is dead" hoax, that is), in which case he's putting up a front that he believes his father is dead, or he's not in on the hoax, in whcih case he actually believes his father is dead.Originally Posted by jscotti
Order of Kilopi
In the show that I appeared in, Bill Kaysing claimed the CIA had tried to kill him. Apparently that's why he was hiding out in the Nevada desert. But then he faxed his address to the film crew on the basis of a phone call. Real smart. The CIA can't find him, but Zig Zag Productions can.
Of course, that was his final television appearance...
Established Member
Bill Kooksing is an embarrasment.Plain and simple.Jim Lovell got it right.Kaysing really is a kook!!!
Order of Kilopi
Was. He died in March. Of natural causes. But yes, Lovell was right.
Order of Kilopi
Actually, to make matters even more hilarious, according to Bill Kaysing's press kit -- which he faxes to anyone who expresses interest -- he wrote his book in retaliation for the government's alleged mistreatment of veterans. Revenge isn't a very good motive for scholarship.
Established Member
Is there really a whole lot of money to be made in this business? I would think there would be much more profitable flavors of snake oil...
Order of Kilopi
I thought everyone knew this......the Russians own the moon? The gave NASA some landing rights.
Why do you think USA didn't go settle.
OOps...am I in the wrong Forum?
Last edited by Eric Vaxxine; 2005-Sep-06 at 01:00 PM.
Order of Kilopi
Oh, really? Are you sure that's not what they want you to think?
Established Member
yes, there is... at least enough to make a few kooks a living they would not otherwise have been able to make.
taks
Order of Kilopi
Is there really a whole lot of money to be made in this business?
No, but it's not the amount of money to be made; it's the ease with which it is made. And it's really less about the money, I think, and more about the notoriety.
I would think there would be much more profitable flavors of snake oil...
But the joy of that business is that if you believe in one conspiracy theory, you believe in all of them. The conspiracists generally don't segregate themselves into moon-hoax people and JFK people and chemtrail people. They are generally all one big group. So it's not a matter of picking and choosing which brand of snake oil you're going to make. Any crackpot conspiracy theory opens you up to the entire market.
Bart Sibrel's first video sells for -- what? -- $35 or $40. That's between two and three times as much as Donnie Darko or Napoleon Dynamite or any other piece of feature-length, quality entertainment. Sibrel's video, on the other hand, is 40 minutes of stock footage. It can't have cost much or taken very long to make. (And, in fact, Sibrel has independent, anonymous financial backers.) I figure his markup has to be heinous.
Not everyone is so lucky to have low overhead and venture capitalists. So I'm sure many of the conspiracy theorists are not making much money. Ralph Rene self-publishes -- and I mean he manufactures the books himself in his house. But with few exceptions I don't think it's necessarily a get-rich-quick scheme. I suspect most of these authors fear obscurity more than poverty. They don't want to be rich; they want to be noticed.
It's the same motivation as graffiti. It doesn't cost much to create; you don't get paid for writing it. But you get people talking about you and your work. As Oscar Wilde said, "The only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about."
Senior Member
And it actually has worked for them. Take Bart (please
I really don't think he cares what people think of him...I believe that he sees his "altercation" with Buzz as something to be proud of...it doesn't matter to him that the rest of us might not see it that way...
Established Member
JayUtah, when I started reading this thread, I thought "aha, an opportunity to direct people to Clavius.org" and then I saw your URL. So, does that mean you are an author of clavius.org or just like it a lot? If the former, thanks for a great website.
Back on topic: in my understanding, the misconception that Gus Grissom was disillusioned with the Apollo programme came from nothing more sinister than a bit of criticism of a training simulator in the form of a practical joke. But I suspect most of you know more about this than I do.
I know someone who does not believe in black holes (or evolution). I have to be very careful when I spend time in her company, otherwise I might go off on a rant.
Established Member
Well, for Sibrel and his ilk it would be proof that Aldrin is hiding something. The burden of holding this gawdawful secret got the better of him, so he popped Sibrel.And it actually has worked for them. Take Bart (please
I really don't think he cares what people think of him...I believe that he sees his "altercation" with Buzz as something to be proud of...it doesn't matter to him that the rest of us might not see it that way...
Established Member
Clavius is indeed Jay's site.
Established Member
So I'm sure many of the conspiracy theorists are not making much money.
Jack White once posted some costs to produce his JFK-related videos:
From: jack white <j...@flash.net>
Subject: Re: Is Jack White an expert?
Date: 1998/08/15
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy.jfk
Robert Milner wrote:
>
> Concerning Jack White's Expertise
> Walter Kovacs wrote "Well no one else is impressed" WRONG! As far as
> Jack being a Profiteer, I wonder how much Jack has spent on his
> research as opposed to what he's profitted over the years.
> Please tell us Mr. Kovacs.
>
> Maranatha,,,, Bob
Thanks, Bob, for pointing that out.
Lemmesee....2 videos, produced out of my own pocket...about $20,000.
1 printed LHO poster with 77 photos....about $2,000
600-slide presentation for use with lecture.....about $6,000.
art production time, photos and materials.......about $10,000
research materials (WC & HSCA vols, books, videos)....about $3,000
Profit to date.....$0 or less.
Profiteer? I wish!
Jack
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