Europa in our life time...?

[Darrrius]

What do people think the chances are of us being able to study Europas oceans in our life times... And I mean really study them with underwater probes.

I'd love to think this will happen in the next 50-60 years or so but for some reason I am doubtful. It just seems like such a massivley difficult and complex task. I mean, first you have to get throught the massive amounts of Ice with a robot that will then be able to search out life in a vast ocean, return to the point where it broke throught the Ice and transmit data back to earth....

Now I'm not saying this is impossible, and I've been amazed at what we have achieved so far.... So hopefully we can do this before I die!!!

Interested in your thoughts... and any theories on how this would be achieved.

[antoniseb]

Originally posted by Darrrius@Feb 18 2005, 04:18 PM
I'd love to think this will happen in the next 50-60 years or so but for some reason I am doubtful.

I think that the advancement of nanotechnology will make certain things that today seem impossibly difficult much more practical. I think that within 50 years we will be able to land a probe on Europa with a mass of only a few grams that will be able to convert some native materials into key parts of the exploration and use of this and other solar system objects.

[3rdvogon]

I guess it all depends what you mean by in "OUR" lifetime. I am 50 so highly unlikely in mine.

Using nanotech devices to cut down on the mass we have to send there certainly seems the best way. Especially as they could go on to build an increasingly large and comprehensive automated research station possibly setting up a production facility to build a whole fleet of aquatic probes.

I guess before that happens we might land something simpler using traditional engineering. It might be able to have a simple probe melt its way down through the ice unspooling a command/comms wire linked to the lander as it goes. The ice of course would refreeze behind the probe as it sank so the probe itself would never be recovered. Such a probe might not be able to travel far from its entry hole so it would probably not "see" much but if there are organic debris/chemicals being carried around in convection currents then it should be able to detect them.

[aeolus]

Originally posted by antoniseb@Feb 18 2005, 04:26 PM
I think that the advancement of nanotechnology will make certain things that today seem impossibly difficult much more practical.

With something as risky as exploring the submarine enviroinment on another planet I think the following issues will hvae to be dealth with:

1. Redundancy - We shouldn't want to spend precious millions on a probe and wait year and years only to have another Beagle II;

2. Cost - The more we answer, the more questions we have, and I think our exploration wish list will only grow meaning funding may not be allocated as generously as it was historically; and

3. Scientific Value - Those questions we have ought to be answered, and sending a single craft with a few experiments in it might not get the best bang for the buck.

Sending microprobes or even nanoprobes would deal with all of these, methinks. If we loose a dozen popcan sized probes after descent, no big deal, cause the other 88 will be working. These can explore part of a planet, not just the specific patch of mud it lands in, giving us a better ability to understand the environment. And sending these probes would definately be faster and more effective than launching something like the school-bus sized Cassini.

The R&D of this nanotechnology will be costly at first of course, but what's exciting is that it might not be NASA that will have to spend it. We're already seeing these things being developed by the private sector now. By the time NASA wants it, they'll have it, and they'll just have to adapt it to their specific needs.

Just a thought.

[Essel]

I guess before that happens we might land something simpler using traditional engineering. It might be able to have a simple probe melt its way down through the ice unspooling a command/comms wire linked to the lander as it goes. The ice of course would refreeze behind the probe as it sank so the probe itself would never be recovered.

We can have a three-tier approach, Mother-ship, Daughter-lander and granddaugher-probe(s). The mother ship can initially scan the entire surface and precisely map the thickness of ice to locate a vantage point for the lander. If the ice thickness is moderate, we can use a cable and a submersible antenna, which will communicate with the submarine probe(s).

1. Redundancy - We shouldn't want to spend precious millions on a probe and wait year and years only to have another Beagle II;

Sending microprobes or even nanoprobes would deal with all of these, methinks. If we loose a dozen popcan sized probes after descent, no big deal, cause the other 88 will be working. These can explore part of a planet, not just the specific patch of mud it lands in, giving us a better ability to understand the environment. And sending these probes would definately be faster and more effective than launching something like the school-bus sized Cassini.

I agree completely, we should have multiple submarine probes or may be even two landers and each with multiple probes.

There are two advancements, which are necessary; 1. Strengthening DSN with long life communications satellites on all major planets and satellites 2. Having a long lasting and compact power source – say the orbiting satellite/ mother ship beaming laser on the lander and the lander recharging the probes at the end of the submersible cables, periodically.

[GOURDHEAD]

The energy required to safely and comfortably do this will require a robust system such as the one to which I have linked in several threads. Upwards of 10^9 watts/square meter power beam could bore a hole several meters in diameter which would remain open due to the temperature on the surface of Europa and the fact that the water would have escaped the hole as steam. After sufficient confidence testing of the system, manned submersibles could explore the depths of Europa's ocean....in about 200 years after initiating the development of the system. Time's awasting.

I strongly suspect that multicellular life exists in Europa's ocean at pre-dinosaurian intelligence levels so I would be for slamming an asteroid into the ice shell in an attempt to gain access to the ocean to explore it.

It's somewhat puzzling that Ganymede lost it's atmosphere (or failed to gain one) but Titan, though not much cooler, retained one.

[Decepticon]

It's somewhat puzzling that Ganymede lost it's atmosphere (or failed to gain one) but Titan, though not much cooler, retained one.

I think you can Blame Jupiters Youth when the solar sytem was forming. Jupiter was Hot and emiting lots of heat.

Don't forget its magnetic field. Very powerful at striping away any atmosphere it did have.


I've always wondered if Shoemaker slammed into Ganymede if it would be enough to kickstart a atmosphere.