Universe Today Councel

[imported_Ziggy]

I have recently made a poll that asks weather or not ExtraSense should be banned from Universe Today. And thats when the idea hit me. The idea of a kind of "Universe Today Counsel." What I call a "counsel" would really be a poll. Or maybe another forum just like human spaceflight or questions and answers. In which ALL the members of Universe Today can vote on issues that have to deal with the forum. Of course fraser wouldn't give up all his authority to the 2000+ members of Universe Today. He could "veto" any of the counsel's suggestions. The counsel could vote on the rules of the forum or weather or not certain members should be banned. It would allow the members of Universe Today to have more say in the issues that effect Universe Today. Moderators can be like police, keeping order in Universe Today. Fraser could open a new forum just like human spaceflight or questions and answers, but this forum would have the title "government" or "Universe Today Counsel." Fraser could post a "issue" in the forum. The "issue" would have a poll attached to it. Then the members of Universe Today would be able to vote on the "issue" and comment on why members should be in favor of a certain choice. Then after a certain alotted time for voteing, the resaults would be sent to fraser and he could either pass it or veto it. Just a thought please comment . Long live Universe Today!

[galaxygirl]

I like this idea Ziggy! It would be like our own forum government.

[DippyHippy]

I don't have a problem with it but it's not really my decision LOL Actually implementing it might have some practical problems though.

[zephyr46]

If you are going as far as an elected council, you could include a fundraising committee.

I think you need at least an appeals panel and the moderators should be doing their job.

I will check on ExtraSense, but I haven't heard of any complaints, I have about a couple of the moderators, but people seem to be able to speck for themselves here and do. Maybe we need a complaints forum.

I'm not against anything like that. If we had an investing club inthe space industry that some of the money went to keeping UT up would be a great long term outcome, question is Frasier what do you want? You seem to stick your head in every now and again where neccesary, and otherwise like your time for yourself? You don't strick me as a Pharaoh/Emperor/King/Judge type of guy, except when you have to be.

If you do (ziggy) descide to start a complaints forum, you should include links to the threds with the rules you think are being transgressed. I think this should only happen if Frasier and the moderators workload exceeds their so far, very acceptable, comments in relevent threds.

But yeah, I'm always one for a meeting, particulary a global one Just not a ***** thread where personal grevances are aired and aurgued about, rather than a quite personal message or comment in the thred reminding the individual in question about the Rules

reminder

1. Stay on Topic... Space and Astronomy
2. No Swearing or Adult Topics
3. Be Nice
4. Don't Quote Emails
5. No Copyright Material
6. No Advertising
7. No Politics or Religion ( I think I have close to breeching this one a few times)
8. DON'T MAKE ALL-CAPITAL TITLES
9. We'll Add New Rules on a Whim

And I think common sense and a will to make this a great place to visit has come before the rules.

So yeah, what ever

[kashi]

The Moderation team has everything under control, and we've been keeping an eye on Extrasense for a while now. Most members are unaware of most of the offensive posts that get removed etc.

Please feel free to publically display your complaints, just try to avoid personally denegrating remarks. I think that "voting people out of the tribe" should be left to reality TV series. Everyone has a right to express their opinion here. We'll do our best to respond to them and maintain the quality of the forum.

You'll also have to learn how to spell "Council".

[Fraser]

Yeah, I don't think we need to go to a governing council yet; the moderators and I have things working well so far.

If there's a person you have a problem with, I'd like you to send me or them a confidential email and let us know what's going on. That way we can deal with things discretely. That last thing I want to do is publicly humiliate people on the forum. I don't think it does them any good, or the forum in general.

I honestly don't mind people posting wacky theories. I feel that it's all part of space enthusiasm. If people are being rude, or just using the forum as a way to push their personal theories, we'll take action. But otherwise, as long as they're not making personal attacks, they're welcome to get involved in the forum.

I think it's important for people to see pseudoscience properly debunked. So if you really want to help in that respect, take a few minutes to dismantle someone's half-baked theory. It will help hundreds of other people make a more critical decision about this kind of thing in the future.

[imported_Ziggy]

Ok, maybe Universe Today doesn't need a council, yet. Keep the idea in mind though. The amount of members in Universe Today is growing at a super fast paste. Were now at about 2200+ members strong.

[Cambo]

The problem with a general vote on the suitability of someone via a poll is that not everyone who might vote has probably read every post made by the "accused". One way of ensuring the relevant facts are presented would be to post a copy of any offending submission which defeats the purpose of moderating forums. Imagine if I used inappropriate language and that is the reason for my exclusion, the posts containing such language would have to be read by those voting. It just doesn't work that well.
The present system of having a select few who monitor the forums is the most effective way of maintaining a semblance of order.
A solution to a problem that may arise with the decisions made by this group of people is that they are 'voted' into these moderators positions. But though this is a more practical way of controlling forums it also has its down side, just look at the different political issues arising worldwide and how some are trying to solve them. Humans are not infallible, we all push some sort of barrow and try to get others to agree with our point of view. Rather than have a chorus of thousands making noise about a subject we elect one that speaks for the majority of us.
I love being Libran, sitting on the fence getting splinters in my *** and pontificating about issues that really don't have an answer that satisfies everybody. I'll shut up now.

[StarLab]

No need to shut up. I like BigZig's idea, but I see your point.
The administrator and moderators have the power to physically lock strings and all, but they all have their opinion, and personally I feel we should have a group of mediators in the forum, who bring the issues voiced by the users with more than just 50 posts to the administrator, who makes a decision based on what the Mediators tell him, and when Fraser makes a decision, the Moderators carry it out. I believe we should put some sort of "power" into the hands of those members who contribute a lot to the forum, who can bring up ideas on which the administrator decides, and then the Mod's carry it out. Sounds like a three-branch republic to me...

[kashi]

Thanks for your suggestion. We already have a group of mediators (i.e. moderators). My question is, what is currently stopping you from enjoying this great forum that Fraser has created? I don't understand the problem here? What is wrong with the way this forum is run? If you have specific problems please highlight them. Setting up a tribal council for the sake of it isn't my idea of a problem, or a solution to anything.

[DippyHippy]

The potential problem with having a council is that it could take too long to get anything done.

Let's say you have issues with a topic someplace, so you start a topic in the Council area asking for people to vote on whether the offending topic should be closed or left open. In order to get a quick reponse you'd have to allow, say, 24 hours for members to vote - 24 hours being the minimum amount of time that would allow members from all around the world to read the topic.

You'd then have to close the topic almost exactly 24 hours after it had opened to 1) ensure an accurate result and 2) to prevent people from voting after the deadline and potentialyl swinging the vote - for example, after 24 hours, 70% might be in favour of closing the offending topic, so we close it. Then other people might vote and it swings to 60% in favour of keeping it open. On the forums, there's no way to tell exactly *when* a vote is cast, unlike replies which are date stamped. So then you've got people arguing that they voted in the 24 hour period (and lying) but with no way to prove it.

Also, you'll have people complaining that they didn't get a chance to vote because they weren't able to log in during that 24 hour period. Well, as far as I'm concerned, decisions are made by those who show up, and frankly I can't be arsed to argue about it.

[StarLab]

I seriously don't get why 24 hours has to be the deadline... :blink: :huh:

[DippyHippy]

I'm not saying that it DID - I'm just saying that if you want a quick result (which in a lot of cases is necessary when someone's kicking up) the minimum amount of time you'd have to allow for a vote is 24 hours because that's the length of a day.

If I were to open up a vote and set the limit to 12 hours, then because I'm in the UK then potentially half the world to the east of me might miss out on the vote because they're asleep. With 24 hours, every member of UT is awake at some point and is therefore able to vote if they visit the board.

[Fraser]

The other problem is that I'm financially responsible for what happens on the Universe Today website. I've put in literally thousands of hours of work to build it to the point that it's at right now. The forum is a pivotal part of the website, and I've set a certain vision for the forum that I feel will best support the overall website.

I understand that having a community of thousands of people involves giving up a certain amount of control, but at the end of the day, I'm responsible for what happens on the website and in the forum, so I need to be able to make decisions and take action. Any council wouldn't really have any power since my veto would have to stand.

Some day I'll let this baby fly on its own, but we're a long way from that day.

[kashi]

Ziggy just seems to love voting in all its manifestations. A true bureaucrat. Save if it for your next election.

[om@umr.edu]

Originally posted by fraser@May 27 2004, 10:17 PM
. . . , but at the end of the day, I'm responsible for what happens on the website and in the forum, so I need to be able to make decisions and take action.

Fraser,

I admire what you have accomplished with this Universe Today website.

Almost 20 years of service as chair of an academic department taught me one important lesson:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it !

Congratulations on a job well done.

With kind regards,

Oliver

[Polly V]

I don't post that often on the boards but I do read quite a bit of them. I've tried many different boards and these are the most civil boards I have been a part of. It's one the desirable qualities that I look for. As well as the knowledge that is brought to these boards. I quite agree with Oliver, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I think Fraser and his moderators have done a fine job.

Not to mention voting people off ......sounds so unappealing. (You can guess I don't care for reality TV) :P

[jkmccrann]

I have recently made a poll that asks weather or not ExtraSense should be banned from Universe Today. And thats when the idea hit me. The idea of a kind of "Universe Today Counsel." What I call a "counsel" would really be a poll. Or maybe another forum just like human spaceflight or questions and answers. In which ALL the members of Universe Today can vote on issues that have to deal with the forum. Of course fraser wouldn't give up all his authority to the 2000+ members of Universe Today. He could "veto" any of the counsel's suggestions. The counsel could vote on the rules of the forum or weather or not certain members should be banned. It would allow the members of Universe Today to have more say in the issues that effect Universe Today. Moderators can be like police, keeping order in Universe Today. Fraser could open a new forum just like human spaceflight or questions and answers, but this forum would have the title "government" or "Universe Today Counsel." Fraser could post a "issue" in the forum. The "issue" would have a poll attached to it. Then the members of Universe Today would be able to vote on the "issue" and comment on why members should be in favor of a certain choice. Then after a certain alotted time for voteing, the resaults would be sent to fraser and he could either pass it or veto it. Just a thought please comment . Long live Universe Today!

Developing on from this idea, but in a slightly different direction, perhaps there could be a page on the Forums dedicated to interesting polls. Perhaps this page could have the Interesting Polls aggregated onto the same page, with links to the various discussions taking place concerning those polls. Who would determine which polls make it onto this page would be up to the Moderators I'd suppose, but obviously polls with a large number of responses would be putting their hand-up for conclusion.

Cheers.