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Thread: Human Origin

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2004

    Human Origin

    were we made by aliens who mixed there own dna with a primate on earth or did we evolve from something else?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    There are 2 answer for your question :
    1. God create us if you believe in religions
    2. We were create by the heavier element from Dead high massive stars :
    3 major sources
    1. Water
    2. Energy (light from the Sun)
    3. Don&#39;t remeber what&#39;s the 3rd one ><

  3. #3
    StarLab Guest
    OK, if scientifically we are created from water, yet religion claims we were from dust, I think there is a little disagreement here...

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Well, not to sound arrogant, but science hardly cares what religion says.

  5. #5
    Science says we go from ashes to ashes and dust to dust too... we are starstuff. Our Sun, our solar system, our Earth and our bodies were all formed from the gas and dust remnants of a supernova. When the Sun dies, the cycle will begin again.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Yes, DH, I suppose you are correct there.

  7. #7
    StarLab Guest
    True dat&#39;&#33; B)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2004
    I think we and all life are the robotic, ever-changing products of natural selection i.e. genetic evolution.

    The building blocks came from the death of a star.

    Whilst I wholesale subscribe to the Theory of Evolution (so much so that I had to capitalize it there), God could still be sitting behind all the machinery of physics quietly sniggering up his sleeve.

    No matter what science may (sometimes arrogantly) think, religion can always be factored in.

  9. #9
    Guest Guest
    definitely believe we have evolved from something small, just like all life. lucky us we are the most evolved creature on earth. does this make us any more special than other animals or plant life? i wonder. one question for people who know evolution well: why is it that if we evolved from apes that apes still exist? how did the species become seperate? just something i always was curious about.

    as for religion, religion is the why and science is the how, depends on what you&#39;re more interested in. since there is no way of knowing why, i choose to see how it all works, and once we have a complete understanding of the universe, i think some of the why will be shown to us.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2004
    i finally got a book that i wanted that my english teacher told me about because he brought up this suject for me. anyways, it should have the answer and so far religion, aliens, and evolution is correct.

    the reason is because the aliens are our gods and they did create all life on earth but i thing it evolved on its own.

    so now everything agrees with each other .

  11. #11
    StarLab Guest
    And...what&#39;s the next step?
    Are the aliens going to come back soon to stop us from wiping each other out?
    Or do they expect us to develop the technology to get to them first?

    ...Or have they become extinct by now?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2004
    They are our gods, and they care about us not hate us, after all they did make us. :b

    or are you suggesting that we formed on our own.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    I like the idea that was presented on an episode of Star Trek. An alien race seeded all the planets with DNA.

    Nobody knows how we got started. That&#39;s like asking how many licks it takes to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop.

    The world may never know&#33;

  14. #14
    Dear Guest

    You&#39;ve raised an excellent point there... I never thought of that&#33; But aren&#39;t there other creatures who&#39;s evolutionary predecessors are still around?

    I agree with you about the why and how though. Interesting points.

  15. #15
    StarLab Guest
    Here&#39;s what I think is interesting:

    Around three billion years ago, DNA developes - into single-sell organisms
    Then, a billion years after that, we have multicellular organisms.
    All of a sudden, six million years ago, we have the first true invertebrates. That&#39;s a shocker: why did it have to be six million years ago? Why not before or after?
    Then, live evolves gradually, at a good pace...
    Then, barely six million years ago, one species - primates - begins to attain (gain) intelligence and imagination, leading to the technological advances we have today.
    Why the sudden leaps six hundred million years ago, six million years ago, and sixty years ago?

  16. #16
    StarLab Guest
    They are our gods, and they care about us not hate us, after all they did make us. :b

    or are you suggesting that we formed on our own.
    Wow, Tesseract, you are starting to act like a premature, pre-scientific revolution Christian. Don&#39;t do that too much on a space/astronomy site (like this one). Kapish? :unsure:

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    65 million years ago is the estimated time that the dinosaurs died off. There were invertebrates back in the Permian age. We&#39;re talking almost 300 million years ago. I&#39;d like to know what caused 95% of life to die off 248 million years ago, or even 360 million years ago at the end of the Devonian period. And what caused the extinction of the dinosaurs? Mass glaciation? Asteroid strikes? Disease? How big of a role does plate tectonics play? If it were not for the massive die-offs, we wouldn&#39;t be here. Does competition really push evolution?

  18. #18
    Wow, Tesseract, you are starting to act like a premature, pre-scientific revolution Christian. Don&#39;t do that too much on a space/astronomy site (like this one). Kapish?
    Starlab, please don&#39;t say things like that about another member. It&#39;s disrespectful and bordering on insulting. Secondly, you&#39;re not yet a moderator - it&#39;s not your place to enforce the rules. If you have a problem with the someone&#39;s words, report it to a moderator.

    Lastly, I&#39;m not above the law myself. If you wish to make a complaint about this reply to another moderator, you&#39;re free to do so.

  19. #19
    StarLab Guest
    Sorry, dh, it was just my opinion. And as you said, I&#39;m in no place to support my opinion.

  20. #20
    Guest Guest
    all im suggesting is that they are like gods to us, i dont personally believe they are gods but that they act like gods.

    they are were religion originated.
    and i do admit that that sounds kind of stupid but i didnt really have time to phrase it any better, and dont worry about disrespecting me because i get that all the time at my house so much that im just used to it by now&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

    i really dont think my parents care about me as much as they care about having there own way even if it hurts me&#33;&#33;&#33;
    but i suppose it could be worse.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2004

    I&#39;d like to believe that there are &#39;Monolith Creators&#39; mincing about the cosmos &#39;seeding&#39; ripe, stable planets with DNA but the rationalist in me concludes that life on this planet literally did &#39;just happen&#39;.

    With a planet sized Petri dish brimming with turbulent but consistent particles mixing together with varied but temperate weather systems, not to mention a nice dollop of radiation from the nearby star, complex, persistent systems are almost (but not necessarily) guaranteed to come about.

    Sudden jumps in species sophistication could happen through &#39;assimilated&#39; evolution e.g. the first chemical-eating cell engulfing the first solar-powered cell creating a symbiotic super cell. Or a giant solar flare causing frame mutations in primates DNA resulting in a tool using inspiration leading quickly to a sloughing of the weak to ensure selection of larger neocortexes - ballooning of the brain.

    Can&#39;t use a club to kill for meat coz you don&#39;t have the brain cells? Goodbye pal, you&#39;ll be looked over when it comes to the dating game&#33;

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2004
    that was me, stupid&#33;
    not a guest, i just forgot to log in&#33;

  23. #23
    pguest Guest

    You are asking a question about life origins that everyone has questioned at one point. One quote in this thread about "dust to dust" only refers to the Bible which is a small slice (not the only idea on earth). There are many other explanations from different cultural beliefs which are more scientific. The whole concept of "aliens" coming here is still like the chicken and the egg conundrum - where did they come from? I used to believe god must have came and spliced with our DNA, but that still leaves the question of how our dna came about. There are a few sensible ideas on our planet besides the bible, which is the least scientifically-sophisticated religion on earth.

    Both Buddhism and Hinduism have scientifically believeable answers to your question on where did humans spring from, and why.

    Both Asia (buddhism) and India (hinduism) believe that god is actually all energy that exists lumped together, not an alien bipedal like we always picture. (the sun, the stars, and all life forms are one and the same). Its a very abstract concept. And that his energy is what causes atoms to spin the way they do, and can change one atom into a different atom simply by consciously desiring to do so thru rearrangement. If a living creature called man can rearrange atoms, then so could a stronger force than man called energy itself, which resides in man (good example, the sun, which they consider part of god). Yet, they didnt know thousands of years ago in Asia, that the sun indeed rearranges atoms. (??) God does this similar to how humans can control their own body molecules with their mind, biofeedback, simply thru desire. There is no explanation how the 7 elements found in star stuff of asteroids got to spread into 100 or so elements we see on earth. Carbon isnt one that&#39;s found in asteroids, yet all organic life contains carbon. *why* did it rearrange? We are carbon, water, (hydrogen, oxygen) and a bunch of elements, yet we arent inert like a pile of the same mixture in a glass electrified. They believe that the stars are all part of the same animal, and that animal is god. If we are made of starstuff, this is scientifically accurate. Kind of like how they discovered groves of certain trees (cedar?) are all actually connected in the roots, appearing as individuals in a forest, yet proved to be one single living animal.

    In these other ideas, god would be the thinking part and the heat of us simultaneously, and god is comprised of all energy in every state - but a bit more than that.- that this energy is capable of thought and love, which is hard to picture for most. Our mind&#39;s energy is capable of thought and love, but we think of it as our own personal belonging & exclusive. That would mean that god purposefully sought for energy and atoms to rearrange into organic matter, and then organically develop in the presence of his varied energy forces nearby thru evolution, into all creatures here on earth by design, not accident. Interestingly enough, hindu believes life formed from the sea, not dust, which from a biology standpoint is believeable, because fetal humans at an early stage have both gills and a tail. Maybe it&#39;s just boring to exist as random energy without a physical presence, and maybe god gets a kick out of simultaneously existing in a few billion creatures, who are capable of doing just what he did - changing their environment and playing around with atoms-- waiting for us to realize we have his qualities and are not the only brains in the cosmos (yes, sniggering&#33. Hindu believes god made man purposefully to give his energy a chance to play god independently, blinding our memories at birth to seem like we&#39;re doing it all ourselves, to discover itself, to finally realize he exists, and have physical fun in a body, believe it or not. They believe Ego, or Self perception, is an animal quality and not a part of god. And that reincarnation&#39;s purpose, is to learn how to live as a good energy force in an organic body, and conquer the animal instincts, thereby perfecting the energy half of ourselves, to whence we eventually return. And that his vast energy force is so broad (the entire universe) that he can focus on every creature at the same time, coherently, experiencing what we experience, and inspiring us at the same time in different directions when we wish it to happen. They dont believe in a god speaking from the clouds or using a voice/words-- they believe god uses inspiration, prompting thoughts, to communicate with us internally - but only when we seek to find those things of our own initiative. (that he responds to our thoughts, but never controls our thoughts unless we actively seek something).

    Another interesting cosmic belief, is in Buddhism, which has the same basic philosophy, with a few additions: that our brains are merely tv or radio receptors, and that the mind lives outside the body, aka the universe. They know from studying nerve impulses with wiring and computers, that you can reproduce the feeling associated with an impulse, but not the actual "thoughts" of a person. And that, our minds, like a tv, pick up the energy of god, which is space, stars, radiation, etc. called "thought". Where do our thoughts "spring" from, when we have a new, original idea we havent "learned" in the traditional sense? Nowhere? They believe god is all goodness and inspiration, and that our mind doesnt reside in the brain, it resides in the cosmos as one large collective entity, tempered by individual perception of the body and its animal "ego" quality.

    Both of the asian religions also believe that energy, as in our life force, never dies - it is recreated over and over again. Either repeatedly as humans, or finally perfected as returning energy back to its source, the stars. Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, another scientific match. They believe that great humanitarians, are people who already perfected and returned to the source of energy, but choose to return to help humans - because helping and caring (love) is a god quality.

    It takes more energy to believe in something you cannot prove than it does to believe only in what science can prove visibly. Science is limited in that respect at present, but certainly it doesnt rule out what it cant see yet as "impossible" (dark matter?). Trust is a quality of the inner god energy inside everyone, and mistrust is a quality of the animal part of us, or ego. Selfishness, greed and rudeness are animal qualities. The animal/god conflicting halfs are pictured in asia as the ying/yang symbol. So every man can listen to his inner voice and make a free decision to believe in a god, or to believe in an accident or bang+evolution, without the basic questions answered. According to both buddihism and hinduism, free will is the factor given to us, so that god doesnt end up merely a puppet master - so we can master our own destiny freely, and make what we want out of our lifetimes by desire.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    I am surprised the pan-spermia notion hasn&#39;t crept into this thread. There is a notion that asteroid collisions on worlds with life on them would eject matter into interstellar space. Some forms of life could remain dormant inside the debris until it lands by great fortune on something habitable. The bacteria or other life form then wakes up and begins the process of colonizing the new planet or joining life on other worlds where life is established. The notion that Mars rocks landed intact on Earth was used to support the notion that our origins could be traced back to Mars, or even Venus if it were habitable in the past. (Boy would I love to see a Venutian meterorite identified)
    Personally I think this notion is alot of bunk, but some supercomputer models have been done that suggest it is possible to disseminate life this way in 100s of millions of years over a significant portion of the galaxy. Perhaps we will go to Alpha Centauri and find plants with identical dna to plants from Earth, arriving there from an old impact that wiped out nearly all life on Earth. Or maybe there are bacteria on a world around Sirius descended from Archea from Earth. I personally find the notion appealing but highly in doubt.
    Aside from that we are all remmenants of a series of Supernovas as are all the bodies in the solar system. Organic molecules from the early solar system rained on Earth supplying it with the building blocks of life. Amino acids assembled int o RNA. RNA evolved into DNA. DNA clumped into chromosomes in the earliest organisms. Single cell organisms evolved into multi-cell organisms and then into animals and plants. Eventually animals evolved into their present day forms. One of them developed an abnormally large braincase and went on to dominate the world with it. The only place where pan-spermia would apply would be at the very earliest stages of the evolutionary cycle. Based on DNA dequencing, we clearly evolved from similar ancestors as our ape cousins. Chimps and our DNA are 98 percent alike. The mrna and protein products are vastly different due to those small DNA differences, however. The DNA similarity is also very alike between us and mice and even amphibians and insects there is a strong resemblence. There is no reason to think our dna was manipulated by aliens.
    Could aliens have seeded the planet? Possibly. The only way to find out is to go out there and see if our DNA is commonplace in the galaxy.

  25. #25
    Hi everyone. I am a new comer. I am searching for some information about Buddihism; therefore any1 has any information, plz tell me. Thnx a lot in advance.
    Character + beliefs + diffusion + lanscape + date founded + scared text + membership of Buddihism!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2001

    Google or the Wikipedia will have all you need. But it will help if you spell it correctly.


  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Welcome to the board funnigal.

    You are likely to become unwelcome quickly, I fear, if you dig up old threads on the basis of a search hit, although given your spelling of Buddhism you were lucky to get a hit. I think there are better boards around the internet to get the sort of answers you're looking for on religions, and I wish you the best of luck in your search. I would expect you to get more information if you showed that you had already done some basic research and were looking for more detail, even on a board which was both relevant and disposed to help.

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Considering the current layour of the board, it may be better to move this to General Science since it is now active.

    I have done some research on Buddhism (for high school, although its been a while). However, I don't see much point telling you what I know about your questions until you at least have done a little research. It sounds like you may be doing a school project on Buddhism, in which case you really should go to the library and get a book. It will probably be far more help than the internet, honestly.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    As this is now an active thread, it may be worth mentioning again the two space-faring elements of the origin of life on Earth that are mentioned, panspermia and alien interference. To me, each of these ideas are interesting possibilities, but at present completely lack not only direct evidence, but even indirect logical support. Pansperima is the idea that life may originate in one place and then be spread via asteroid chunks, if it originates on a planet, or by cometary (etc.) debris if it forms in space. But the basic flaw here, as I see it, is that the Earth environment seems perfectly amenable to life for at least 3 billion years. So much so, that we really can't imagine a more conducive place, so the panspermia idea at best gives you a factor-4 increase in the time available. That's precious little advantage, given the many hardships of that scenario. And if it is merely rudimentary forms of DNA sequences that are coming from space very early in the process, again I ask, where is the advantage of space over the Earthbound environment? In effect, if it had to originate somewhere, why not here.

    As for alien interference, the flaw there has already been mentioned in the thread, which is that it really just passes to buck to somewhere else in the galaxy to explain the emergence of intelligent life. So again there is a need to argue that intelligence can't appear on Earth, or can't appear that rapidly,
    to have any reason to conclude it appeared somewhere else and came here "artificially". Given the evidence for the process of evolution that led to the brink of advanced intelligence, I hardly think that case has been made. In the complete absence of evidence, any creation myth is as good as any other-- just because some have a scientific-sounding edge to them doesn't make them any more likely to be correct than religious creation beliefs, at least not until actual support, even in general terms, is brought forth.

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by pguest
    "dust to dust"....Hinduism...Buddhism...brain being a receptor...mind being outside body...
    You have captured the spirit of Oriental religions quite well. I am inclined to agree.

    Hinduism also believes that this entire material creation (physical universe) is just one-fourth of the entire Creation, and rests on God, like a string of pearls is supported by the common thread running through each pearl.

    The rest 75%, so to speak, is pure spiritual energy, the real abode of God.

    And everything that happens in the physical universe actually happens for the pleasure of God. All these tensions, pleasures, pains, ups, downs, turmoil, peace, war, violence, disasters, life-death-life-death recycling, what have you, are a mere sport, a pastime, an illusion that looks real from our perspective -- the cosmic law of karma (which is automatic and impersonal) in action.

    Having said that, I should add: the study of psychology offers interesting insights, that could potentially challenge the theories of soul, rebirth, reincarnation, karma, etc.

    In a sense, every aspect, action, thought, behaviour, mindset and experience in one's life could be explained using phychological insights. Psychology could even explain the so-called intuition, clairvoyance, premonition, dreams, etc.

    It's all a mixed-up play of the human brain, wherein reside multiple, cross-connected layers of consciousness.

    It all boils down to two things: the family/environment/society into which one is born, and how educated, knowledgeable, spiritual, fair-minded, open-minded, level-headed, large-hearted and wise one's parents are.

    But I also believe there are certain unexplainable phenomena....some sort of waves (brainwaves? mindwaves? that are not cosmic rays, gamma rays, x-rays and all kinds of known radiation in the spectrum we know of)....

    It seems as though we are indeed controlled by some Remote Controller, and our brains are indeed receivers of such waves. From God's point of view, we are no more than mere puppets or robots, tricked into illusion that we are supreme. Hindus call this Maya.

    Look at history. Our planet has been witnessing gradual growth on various planes (material, biological, spiritual, etc).

    Perhaps, for God, Earth (solar system) is a small project, a small contract, in the universal scheme of things. What that project is, what are the terms of the contract, and with whom, we don't know yet.

    Hence the confusion over what is the purpose of life. People and other life forms come and perish, generation after generation. They grow up, work, do their bit, die. But planet Earth survives. From a cosmic perspective, we human beings seem to be a mere insignificant detail, perhaps equivalent to labourers tasked to beautify the surface of the planet. This planet beautification project works on cosmic time-scale, it seems.

    On a spiritual level, some say the purpose of life in human form is to transcend the baser / animal instincts (sex, violence, hatred, greed, etc) because it is possible for humans alone to do this.

    It seems as though two equal but mutually opposing forces are at work, trying to remote control / manipulate human beings. And eventually, one force seems to defeat the other, at which time, the seemingly defeated force brings about cosmic dissolution, thoroughly disillusioned each time.

    And this cosmic dissolution is nothing but creative destruction. Destruction that creates everything anew.

    From a still higher perspective, all this non-stop creation and destruction is actually part of the game, played over and over again. This so-called fight between good-and-evil is itself an illusion, it seems. In reality though, it is a mere mechanism to ensure the cosmic cycle goes on and on.

    Why should the cosmic cycle go on and on? What will happen if it ends once and for all? Well, I think it's a question of choice. As they say, something is better than nothing.

    At another level, perhaps it is inevitable, unstoppable. That is how The Machine works perhaps. It's preprogrammed, hardwired, automatic, on auto-pilot. That is its nature.

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