Beginner at 60+yrs

[Harley Dan]

I would like to buy a telescope for my mother, who is a beginner at 68yrs. young.She has always watched the sky but never owned a 'scope. I am reading all I can to buy the right one for her but am unfamiliar myself. I have decided that I want to use a Meade #902 Electronic Eyepiece 'cause some days mom can't get out of bed and it would be great if she could control the 'scope from bed and observe it on T.V. I think I want at least a 114mm app. but am not sure on focal length or reflector or refractor. HELP PLEASE!!! I was in charge of mom's christmas gift and I think I'm late!!!!!!!! The other siblings are getting on me to hurry. Maybe a Meade 114EQ?

[Dave Mitsky]

The Meade electronic eyepiece will only be effective on a relative handful of objects such as the Moon, Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, and Mars, bright stars, and perhaps a few of the brightest star clusters. Controlling a telescope remotely from indoors is a very complex proposition, something far beyond what any beginner's telescope is capable of.

The telescope that is most often suggested for novices is a 6" f/8 (1219mm focal length) Newtonian reflector with a Dobsonian mount, in other words, a Dob.

Dave Mitsky

[Bluewolf027]

Personally I would stay away from the electronically controlled (go to) scopes all together if you are just starting out. The go to systems are sometimes complicated and it is better to learn how to locate objects in the sky for yourself.

If I were to buy a beginners scope I would probably go with something like the Skyquest XT6 Dobsonian Reflector its made by Orion and they also have the same scope available in 8" or 10", you can also get it with an equatorial mount instead of the Dobsonian mount if you wish.

[DippyHippy]

I have to agree with Bluewolf and Dave; ordinarily, it's best to get to know the sky first but since your mother is sometimes bedbound, that might not be possible. If you can get something set up like you want, please do let us know... I'd love to help, but I wouldn't really know how to do it... sorry...

I wish you luck though - I hope it works out for you!

[vandergraaf]

Well, I agree with all of You about begginers scope, but in this case of sometimes bedbound 68 year old lady, I think that "go to" scope is a big advantage. Maybe 6" or 8" Meade LXD 55 whose Autostar is very easy controlled from distance.
Instead of Meade electronic eyepiece, you can use astronomy CCD video cameras.
For example, with Adirondack video camera "StellaCam II" you can reach stars up to 18 magnitude, and deep sky object are very nicely displayed on laptop or TV.
But for set up like this you need $1.500, so that could be a drawback.

[Dave Mitsky]

The thing to keep in mind is that operating a telescope remotely from indoors (from inside a domecile) is a rather difficult and expensive task. I've seen a lot of private, club, and professional observatories in my years as an observer but I have never seen a single indoor setup.

One of the clubs that I belong to owns a StellaCam EX. It will indeed display open and globular clusters and the brighter galaxies and nebulae on a video monitor but there are quite a few cables to deal with, cables that can easily become disconnected when a telescope makes major slews. Setting up and focusing the camera takes a bit of doing. A friend of mine has the ITE version (both low lux cameras are manufactured by Mintron) and using it with his 12" Meade LX200 has been very trying at times.

Someone will have to set the gear up and do a star alignment every time the telescope is to be used.

BTW, the Astrovid StellaCam II costs $795.

Dave Mitsky

[damienpaul]

Someone will have to set the gear up and do a star alignment every time the telescope is to be used.

Is it possible to automate this process? If so, how?

I am also interested in an automated type system.

[Harley Dan]

A GREAT BIG THANK YOU TO YOU ALL. You all have very good advice and seem to be so friendly. I'll do some reading and studing on the reports I've received but please by all means keep the advice comming!
One ? though, please (in a nut shell) explain the different types of mounts,equatorial, Dobsonian,....etc.
Thank you all so much!

[vandergraaf]

Well, StellaCam II cost $795 that is true. When I wrote $1.500 I ment camera and 6" Meade LXD 55.
But why is remotely operating telescope so difficult?
I`m doing that all the time. My Meade LXD 55 is connected to laptop, and lately I'm using new Meade Autostar Suite software to run telecope, which comes with Meade LPI webcamera and cost only $150. Program can also find best focus for the telescope.
Yes, you need star aligment telescope every time, but LXD comes with polar aligment viewfinder, so the whole process take just a few minutes. There is nothing difficult about this, and after just a few times this become a routine.
Cables may become disconnected doing major slew, (never happend to me), but there are no reason for doing that, meaning major slew. I can spend all night researching and observing only one constelation, never slewing telecope from, let's say Pegasus on the west to Coma Berencies on the east.
I mean, I live in Canada. Right now outside temperature is -25C. It is "tooooo cooold" for standing outside beside telescope. I`m not the only one who remotely run a telescope. Even Royal Astronomical Society of Canada run 16" LX 200 in their observatory remotely from inside nice and warm room.
My point is that running telescope remotely is not that difficult, and it is great advantage for someone who would like to enjoy the night sky but is not able to do so standing beside the telescope and looking through the eyepiece.
Clear skies.

[Dave Mitsky]

Originally posted by vandergraaf@Feb 17 2004, 02:49 AM
Well, StellaCam II cost $795 that is true. When I wrote $1.500 I ment camera and 6" Meade LXD 55.
But why is remotely operating telescope so difficult?
I`m doing that all the time. My Meade LXD 55 is connected to laptop, and lately I'm using new Meade Autostar Suite software to run telecope, which comes with Meade LPI webcamera and cost only $150. Program can also find best focus for the telescope.
Yes, you need star aligment telescope every time, but LXD comes with polar aligment viewfinder, so the whole process take just a few minutes. There is nothing difficult about this, and after just a few times this become a routine.
Cables may become disconnected doing major slew, (never happend to me), but there are no reason for doing that, meaning major slew. I can spend all night researching and observing only one constelation, never slewing telecope from, let's say Pegasus on the west to Coma Berencies on the east.
I mean, I live in Canada. Right now outside temperature is -25C. It is "tooooo cooold" for standing outside beside telescope. I`m not the only one who remotely run a telescope. Even Royal Astronomical Society of Canada run 16" LX 200 in their observatory remotely from inside nice and warm room.
My point is that running telescope remotely is not that difficult, and it is great advantage for someone who would like to enjoy the night sky but is not able to do so standing beside the telescope and looking through the eyepiece.
Clear skies.

The cables can wrap around the telescope tripod if someone isn't keeping an eye on them. Most beginners are going to want to look at the showpiece objects and that means moving around the sky quite a bit.

IMO, such a setup, while it obviously can be accomplished with enough know-how and money, presents a major undertaking and expense for a novice who was originally talking about an entry level 4.5" reflector and an electronic eyepiece.

Dave Mitsky

[Harley Dan]

I must let you guys (& Gals) know I appreciate your dialogue to each other. I read this every chance I get and I do learn from your opinions to each other. Thank you all for your responses. Keep it up and keep the debate going. Through this all I will gain the knowledge necessary to make an educated purchase. Your thoughts,opinions and advice do not go unnoticed.
THANKS

[corkft]

Originally posted by Harley Dan@Feb 16 2004, 06:41 PM

One ? though, please (in a nut shell) explain the different types of mounts,equatorial, Dobsonian,....etc.

HarleyDan, A Dobsonian mount is a reflective telescope sitting on a "Lazy Susan" type affair. It allows one to turn and tilt the scope to follow what you are looking at by simply nudging it a bit as the object appears to move. The equatoral mount has a system of gears (rack and pinion) that allow you to follow the star by turning a dial. Most of the newer ones are motorized. All one needs to do is aline the scope with the "North Star" and then go to your object. By the way a reflector will give a larger field of vision than a refractor. Refractors are more for planetary studies. A reflector lets you view the your object, surounded by its "closer" neighbors..."the big picture".
Good luck.

[memo]

Harley Iguess my main concern would be weight,nothing has detered more people then a scope that is a little heavey.If you have a chance check orion they have good quality.Do not by walmart specials.Electronics are ok,if she has days when getting around is a problem it helps.they are not hard to use,also might want to consider putting the set up on wheels .It could be put on a plywood platform with wheels.WHEN IT IS ALL DONE use stick on luminus star to mark north and so.Make north on the platform match north on the mount. We old people need big words.You can mount all the suff ,electronics on the platform. GOOD LUCK nelson

[DippyHippy]

Yeah, the small Orion scope I bought my future stepson (4" reflector on a Dobsonian mounting) is very light and very portable... I forget how much it weighs... no more than 20 pounds, max. It gives cracking views too!

[Dave Mitsky]

"By the way a reflector will give a larger field of vision than a refractor. Refractors are more for planetary studies. A reflector lets you view the your object, surounded by its "closer" neighbors..."the big picture"."

Sorry, but that is not exactly the case. The true field of view produced by a telescope depends upon its focal length, the focal length of the eyepiece being used, and the apparent field of view of the eyepiece. A refractor and a reflector of the same focal length will yield the same TFOV with identical eyepieces.

I own several rich-field refractors that produce extremely wide fields of view. One of them, a 101mm f/5.4 Tele Vue Genesis sdf, has a true field of view of about 4.4 degrees with a 2" 35mm Tele Vue Panoptic ocular.

A good Newtonian reflector, especially one with an f/ratio of f/8 or higher that is properly baffled and has a small secondary mirror, is an extremely capable planetary telescope. Also excellent are off-axis Newtonians and the premium truss-tube Dobsonian Newtonians manufactured by Starmaster and Obsession since they are usually supplied with extremely good mirrors. The mirrors manufactured by Carl Zambuto are simply unbelieveable, even though they are very fast (low f/ratio). Some of my best planetary views ever have been through large aperture (14.5 to 25 inch) Starmasters and Obsessions and I've had occasion to observe with some of the best apochromatic refractors available including ones by Astro-Physics, Takahashi, and TMB.

Maksutov-Newtonians and Maksutov-Cassegrains are also capable of producing excellent planetary images.

Dave Mitsky

[Harley Dan]

Originally posted by nelson marasco@Feb 18 2004, 12:18 AM
Might want to consider putting the set up on wheels .It could be put on a plywood platform with wheels.WHEN IT IS ALL DONE use stick on luminus star to mark north and so.Make north on the platform match north on the mount. We old people need big words.You can mount all the stuff ,electronics on the platform. GOOD LUCK nelson

Nelson, That is a great idea. I am a Tool & Die Maker and used too doing engineering,blue prints,just makin' stuff. Sounds like a good project.

Also, I'm not too concerned about weight(especially if it is set up on wheels) 'cause she lives in the country with a 4 acre backyard and a corn/bean field beyond that. She will only set up on the back deck. She won't be transporting it to other locations. As far as I know there is no water or significant thermal activity except a little to the southwest there is a tiny wooded area,no more than a couple of acres.
By the way, we are in Indiana-North Central. Indianapolis is about central both (North & South) & (East & West). We are 78 miles due North of Indy.

Thank you all so very much! BUT!!!!!!!!!
Please explain: f/ratio...i.e. f/5.4, Newtonian, properly baffled, off-axis Newtonians, Maksutov-Newtonians & Maksutov-Cassegrains, and Dobsonian Newtonians.
This might be alot to ask............. DUH! Here I am with the world at my finger tips. I'll try to find some info. on www. If anyone can give a short explanation on any of the above I would sure appreciate it. Thanks, Harley Dan

"Ya gotta look down once in awhile so ya don't trip."

[Dave Mitsky]

Dan,

The fact that you are capable in such matters makes this undertaking a bit more plausible. I suggest that you get a copy of the third edition of Phil Harrington's _Star Ware_, the best book available on astronomy gear, to answer some of your questions. Many libraries carry copies of this book if you don't want to buy it. While you're at it, buy a copy of _Nightwatch_ by Terence Dickinson. This is perhaps the very best book on amateur astronomy for novices.

There are numerous web sites that explain the various telescope designs and the jargon associated with them. Try a search using Google or Dogpile.

Dave Mitsky

[ve7adp]

Hi! Tell your mother best of fun and luck. I'm just getting started myself at age 83. Just obtained a 6" OR9000s by Orbitor with full equatorial mount and one motor. I too would like to remote control but I feel the "loom" of the town I live in would make observations a bit iffey. My first view of the moon was not spectacular at all. It was just a bigger white disk of what I saw by naked eye. Probably need a filter of some sort. I too, am in Canada, near Vancouver, BC's west coast. Lots of light "Loom" in the sky around here.
But keep on trying, as I will, and I think it will come to some kind of fruition. Tom

[DippyHippy]

Wow ve7 - I'm impressed! Good luck! I'm sure you'll find it a very rewarding hobby

Be sure to come back to UT and let us know how you get on

[damienpaul]

I am also impressed ve7! My grandfather, who is 80, has really got into computers, he has been searching astronomy sites galore, he has also looked here too! And he just bought a new telescope! and the same type as you i think!

[Harley Dan]

Hey everyone-
It's been awhile.So many other things going on right now but it's about time Mom got her Christmas present. . I read each and every one of your suggestion,opinions,discussions,and ideas. I filtered through and decided on a Meade ATX 90 AT although I bought the EC model and will purchase the Autostar later. I really think ,Mom, in her condition needs the Autostar and #505 PC cable hook-up. I purchased the T.V. eyepiece seperately so thats taken care of. So many extras, so few special days. Guess you don't need special days when it's for someone special anyway.
OH ya, the 'scope is also UHTC(Ultra-High Transmission Coating). I have read some on this and for the price I think it was a good purchase. Any comments +or-?
Just a few more ? since I haven't received it yet,how important is the tripod stability when using servo motors?
Is the 45 degree erecting eyepiece more comfortable? She will be sitting down either w/ a table tripod or an adjustable floor tripod.
Will a zoom lens that covers,say, 6mm-30mm replace the need for all the eyepieces? Will performance be forfeited?
Is an eletric focuser worth the change$? Mom in her condition may not be steady enough to focus manually.

I know,Iknow it is ALOT of info to ask but I look forward to checking in and hearing from everyone. Especially to read your discussions between each other. I have always been one to learn from listening to others disagree(not fight-but a good debate) or agree emphatically.
You all have been not only an inspiration, but a great help. Thank you all so much. Look forward to returning and reading and learning.
Sincerely & I mean SINCERELY,
Harley Dan