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Thread: The Asian Shadow

  1. #1
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    A plumbic cloud is going to kill half million Earthlings. Slowly. From disease or hunger. It is the size of three United States and continues expanding. It’s nucleus is 3.000 meters thick. It’s been forming for decades.

    Seen from the Moon under the Full Earth, it constitutes a 3x4 cm portrait of the human insensitivity. This poison cocktail is parked above ¼ of the human population. Constituted and strengthened by increasing monoxides, dioxides, sulfates, aerosols, and miscellaneous gases, this bio-chemical soup is made of 35% of the old poverty pollution and 65% of the new richness pollution. We’re talking about the larger concentration of bio-chemical pollutants of the planet. Something more tenebrous than the ozone hole.

    The scientific secrets of the “Asian Shadow” (which reduced the sunlight intensity in the vastness affected by 14%) are under investigation by the team led by the Indian physicist Victor Ramanathan. There’s no report available so far.

    The phenomenon is awesome not properly upon its content, but for its extension. The thing stretches from the car-choked streets of Japan to the voids of Afghanistan (now lifted to the status of scratch of hell’s map). A cumulative and irreversible environmental aggression.

    If it’s true that the flight of a butterfly in Zimbabwe can trigger a storm in Nebraska, the “Asian Shadow” must be making a mess of the ecosystems all over the world. It cannot be ruled out as the responsible for the recent flooding cycle, far above the historic average of the continent’s monsoon.


    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by Argos to ban reference to the Kyoto Protocol, aiming to strip the discussion of the political component]</font>

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-08-30 15:42 ]</font>

  2. #2
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    I have several comments about this post:

    1) What is your source for this? It sounds like it's quoted from somewhere.

    2) What does this have to do with astronomy?

  3. #3
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    On 2002-08-30 14:11, The Bad Astronomer wrote:
    I have several comments about this post:

    1) What is your source for this? It sounds like it's quoted from somewhere.
    I got a reputation to keep. This text was inspired by the news. I made myself a wrap-up. If you don't believe try to google it. Am I considered too dumb to write such a simple text without raising suspicions of cut-and-paste practice? I should feel offended for this. But I know. You're the owner, so, let it be.

    2) What does this have to do with astronomy?
    We pass the days in this board talking about the clouds of Jupiter, oceans of Titan, Mars. Even Talk about interstellar clouds. I thought that we could discuss a cloud in another planet. Earth, in this case.



    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-08-31 08:53 ]</font>

  4. #4
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    On 2002-08-30 14:11, The Bad Astronomer
    1) What is your source for this? It sounds like it's quoted from somewhere.
    It occured to me, now that I've cooled down, that I should take it as a compliment.[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-08-30 14:37 ]</font>

  5. #5
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    On 2002-08-30 14:22, Argos wrote:
    This text was inspired by the news. I made myself a wrap-up. If you don't believe try to google it.
    I did a Google search on "Asian shadow" and got a bunch of links for a puppet show. Are you trying to "Create a BA myth"?

    _________________
    "All that is gold does not glitter / Not all those who wander are lost..."

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nebularain on 2002-08-30 14:53 ]</font>

  6. #6
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    On 2002-08-30 14:52, nebularain wrote:

    Are you trying to "Create a BA myth"?

    No. I'm just trying to discuss a serious subject. And i'm not willing a political discussion. I want to explore the dangers involved in this situation, in a scientific fashion.

    I think that it meets the requirements on being "tangentially related" to astronomy. The jargon is common in astrophysics and planetary sciences. We're talking about the composition of a planet's atmosphere. One of these days a poster presented a petition to ban environmental laws. That was pure politics. I think this post of mine is more astronomy-related than that.

    If this post is to be locked, then we're not allowed to talk about astrophysics and planetary sciences here anymore. We should be restricted to talk about the position of celestial bodies, the original occupation of astronomy as a science.


    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-08-30 15:38 ]</font>

  7. #7
    On 2002-08-30 13:57, Argos wrote:
    ...Constituted and strengthened by increasing monoxides, dioxides, sulfates, aerosols, and miscellaneous gases,...
    Just curious about something:
    What do you do when the process used to feed 6 billion people results in pollutants that threaten .5 million people?

  8. #8
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    Hi Argos,

    I had heard of this Asian cloud before. I'm sure there are others, but here is the first link I found:

    http://www.time.com/time/world/

    and then click on the interactive graphic for "Asian's Brown Cloud Explained."



  9. #9
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    It's funny...days ago John Kierein featured a first-hand (and wonderful) tale of the Skylab times, and nobody doubted it.

    Now a few words of mine prompt people to accuse me of plagiarism. Is it because he is...and i am...No, NO. Better not even think about this...

  10. #10
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    I appologize, Argos. Wasn't trying to doubt your credibility - just confused.

    Usually posts with stuff like this have a link or some reference as to where the info came from, and then when the BA asked for some, your words seemed to express offense and irritability, which did not make sense to me. Then my search for the topic was fruitless, which also didn't make sense. So, I tried to make some sense out of it. (The Grape "Gotch!" award came to mind.

    Again, I appologize; didn't mean to offend you.

    _________________
    "All that is gold does not glitter / Not all those who wander are lost..."

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: nebularain on 2002-08-30 16:40 ]</font>

  11. #11
    If it helps I too have read this story somewhere (bbc ?) - the story I read was not as dramatic, but referred to thick air polution affecting the climate over a large part of India.

    I also read a follow on article which suggested possible soultions.

    Phobos

  12. #12
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    I am baffled at your reaction to my questions. I have a very strict rule about cutting and pasting news articles. Yours sounded like one, so I asked. Also, I wanted to know what the references were for this cloud, about which I had never heard. I did not accuse you of plaigerism. Perhaps I should have been clearer.

    Also, the discussion of pollution on Earth is a stretch as it relates to astronomy. You have defended the post, and at the moment I have no intention of locking it. But your huffiness (as I see it) about what can be discussed on this board is not necessary. Read the FAQ.

  13. #13
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    Yeah, it sounds like he's talking about the "Asian Brown Cloud" air pollution thing.
    http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science...aze/index.html
    'Asian Brown Cloud' poses global threat
    August 22, 2002 Posted: 1:41 PM EDT (1741 GMT)


  14. #14
    Well, maybe this is a bit of a stretch, but it could well become of concern to this bulletin board if this cloud should spread to Hawaii and Chile and interfere with the observatories. It just may be relevant here after all.

    On the matter of observatories, remember how the eruption of Mt. Pinatubo interfered with the observation of the total solar eclipse of 1991 July 11.

    On a related note, I know from numerous news stories that this cloud has been developing for years. There was one year where the combination of smog and smoke from fires was particularly bad in Singapore and Indonesia.

  15. #15
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    On 2002-08-30 17:00, The Bad Astronomer wrote:
    I am baffled at your reaction to my questions. I have a very strict rule about cutting and pasting news articles. Yours sounded like one, so I asked. Also, I wanted to know what the references were for this cloud, about which I had never heard. I did not accuse you of plaigerism. Perhaps I should have been clearer.

    Also, the discussion of pollution on Earth is a stretch as it relates to astronomy. You have defended the post, and at the moment I have no intention of locking it. But your huffiness (as I see it) about what can be discussed on this board is not necessary. Read the FAQ.
    It's my turn to apologize. Maybe I overreacted to it. I'm a very righteous guy, and if I were to post someone else's material I would certainly indicate the source. I frequent this board to learn, to make friends and to post what I find to be exciting and original. And, of course, we all like to exercize some writing style. Lets forget the polemics and follow on being good friends.

    As I said above in the thread, I think this post is very pertinent. To know the atmospheric dynamics on Earth is important for understanding the configuration of atmospheric systems elsewhere in the solar system and beyond. We could learn a lot from studying this cloud. It's a subject of high relevance for the planetary sciences.

    Also, it affects astronomy and astronomers. The information I gathered indicate a decrease of 14% in the sunlight intensity in the region affected. Thus, the light of the stars is being decreased by the same factor. This is bad news for the astronomy research in places like Japan, China, India, and possibly Australia and New Zealand, where intense scientific research linked to astronomy and astrophysics is being done. This can impact severely the quality of the scientific work developed there. If the light pollution became a problem for astronomy, then this cloud is coming to add colors.

    There's also the fact that this cloud is expected to move. And it will do it westwards. It means that Europe is in the line, and soon will begin to feel the intensity of the problem. And then will be Americas' turn.

    Finally there's the fact that among the half million people expected to die, there will be a lot of comrades astronomers. And that is really sad.

    I'm hoping that the fellows interested in planetary sciences contribute to this topic to shed a little light on the problem.


    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-08-31 10:01 ]</font>

  16. #16
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    On 2002-08-30 16:23, nebularain wrote:


    Again, I appologize; didn't mean to offend you.
    There's no need to apologize. I understand your position. Lets go on for the fun of it! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  17. #17
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    On 2002-08-30 16:33, Phobos wrote:


    I also read a follow on article which suggested possible soultions.

    Phobos
    Can you point me to that material? Is it on the Internet?


    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-08-31 09:59 ]</font>

  18. #18
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    On 2002-08-30 15:49, traztx wrote:
    On 2002-08-30 13:57, Argos wrote:
    ...Constituted and strengthened by increasing monoxides, dioxides, sulfates, aerosols, and miscellaneous gases,...
    Just curious about something:
    What do you do when the process used to feed 6 billion people results in pollutants that threaten .5 million people?
    That's a really good question, the reason why I posted this subject.

    Sustainable development (and this is not politics) is something that can feed 6 billion people without menacing anyone. No human life is expendable, at least to me.

    (One never knows if in the shanty towns of Bangladesh at this exact moment there's a little boy who will one day describe the Great Unified Theory)

  19. #19
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    On 2002-08-30 15:59, Laser Jock wrote:
    Hi Argos,

    I had heard of this Asian cloud before. I'm sure there are others, but here is the first link I found:

    http://www.time.com/time/world/

    and then click on the interactive graphic for "Asian's Brown Cloud Explained."


    Thank you, Laser Jock.[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  20. #20
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    On 2002-08-30 13:57, Argos wrote:
    A plumbic cloud is going to kill half million Earthlings. Slowly. From disease or hunger. It is the size of three United States and continues expanding. It’s nucleus is 3.000 meters thick. It’s been forming for decades.

    Seen from the Moon under the Full Earth, it constitutes a 3x4 cm portrait of the human insensitivity. This poison cocktail is parked above ¼ of the human population. Constituted and strengthened by increasing monoxides, dioxides, sulfates, aerosols, and miscellaneous gases, this bio-chemical soup is made of 35% of the old poverty pollution and 65% of the new richness pollution. We’re talking about the larger concentration of bio-chemical pollutants of the planet. Something more tenebrous than the ozone hole.

    The scientific secrets of the “Asian Shadow” (which reduced the sunlight intensity in the vastness affected by 14%) are under investigation by the team led by the Indian physicist Victor Ramanathan. There’s no report available so far.

    The phenomenon is awesome not properly upon its content, but for its extension. The thing stretches from the car-choked streets of Japan to the voids of Afghanistan (now lifted to the status of scratch of hell’s map). A cumulative and irreversible environmental aggression.

    If it’s true that the flight of a butterfly in Zimbabwe can trigger a storm in Nebraska, the “Asian Shadow” must be making a mess of the ecosystems all over the world. It cannot be ruled out as the responsible for the recent flooding cycle, far above the historic average of the continent’s monsoon.


    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by Argos to ban reference to the Kyoto Protocol, aiming to strip the discussion of the political component]</font>

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-08-30 15:42 ]</font>
    A few questions:
    1)What is a "plumbic" cloud?
    2)Disease or hunger - which, and why?
    3) 3 United States - is this 3 x US or 3 x States within the US?
    4) A butterfly in Zimbabwe creating storms in Nebraska?!?! How?
    5) Some of this article reads strangely to me. Is it translated from another language into English? Idiom does not always carry over very well. Or is English not your first language?
    6) Keep watching the skies - oops, sorry, wrong film!

  21. #21
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    I'm guessing that Argos has a thesaurus and he knows how to use it. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

    Those are just 50 cent words. "Plumbic" means "pertaining to or containing lead", and I'm guessing he's using it to mean "leaden", meaning "gray-colored". So a "plumbic" cloud is just a gray cloud.

    "Tenebrous" means, basically, "dark and gloomy".

    The rationale for the cloud killing millions through "disease or hunger" is that first, its severe air pollution will kill millions through various lung diseases, and second, that the decrease in sunlight will cause crop failures and famines.

    The phrase "three United States" means that in area, the cloud measures about the same size as three times the size of the United States. Since the total area of the U.S. is 3,537,441 square miles, I'm assuming that this means that the total area of the cloud is about 10,612,323 square miles.

    "A butterfly in Zimbabwe creating storms in Nebraska"--this is a concept called "Chaos Theory", which, greatly oversimplified, states that everything that happens in Nature is connected. The most common example of this is called the "Butterfly Effect". I don't get it myself, but see if it makes sense to you. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    http://www.cmp.caltech.edu/~mcc/chaos_new/Lorenz.html

    Actually, the article reads like it was written by someone for whom English is very much a first language, 50 cent words notwithstanding. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


  22. #22
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    [quote]
    On 2002-08-31 21:55, Jigsaw wrote:

    "A butterfly in Zimbabwe creating storms in Nebraska"--this is a concept called "Chaos Theory", which, greatly oversimplified, states that everything that happens in Nature is connected. The most common example of this is called the "Butterfly Effect". I don't get it myself, but see if it makes sense to you. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    http://www.cmp.caltech.edu/~mcc/chaos_new/Lorenz.html</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR></TD></TR></TABLE>

    In Chaos theory, even the smallest of changes in the inputs can have a huge effect on the output. That's why it's impossible to predict accurately such things as the weather, you can't account for every little thing. In fact, chaos theory began with a weather simulation. Someone ran a simulation and came up with one set of results. Then he ran it again and came up with a completely different result. It turns out that in the second simulation, he had not entered in the exact same inputs, but had instead rounded them off to only the 10th decimal place or something. Over the course of the simulation, that small difference was enough to completely change the outcome. So, a butterfly flapping it's wings has a very small effect on the weather locally, but over time it would be enough of a difference that a completely different global weather pattern would emerge compared to one where it didn't flap it's wings.

    Actually, the article reads like it was written by someone for whom English is very much a first language, 50 cent words notwithstanding. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    No, I disagree. I think it does show someone who's working with a second language, albeit one he knows well. It's very good, but it's not always natural. He shows himself to be a person who knows many difficult words, but he doesn't always use them in the same ways a native speaker does. This is common among people who learn a lot of vocabulary but don't have the experience to use it with all the correct nuances.

    The fact that he's from Brazil also supports this. Are we correct in this Argos?

  23. #23
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    On 2002-08-31 21:55, Jigsaw wrote:
    I'm guessing he's using it to mean "leaden", meaning "gray-colored". So a "plumbic" cloud is just a gray cloud.
    Right.

    "Tenebrous" means, basically, "dark and gloomy".
    OK.

    The rationale for the cloud killing millions through "disease or hunger" is that first, its severe air pollution will kill millions through various lung diseases, and second, that the decrease in sunlight will cause crop failures and famines.


    The phrase "three United States" means that in area, the cloud measures about the same size as three times the size of the United States. Since the total area of the U.S. is 3,537,441 square miles, I'm assuming that this means that the total area of the cloud is about 10,612,323 square miles.

    "A butterfly in Zimbabwe creating storms in Nebraska"--this is a concept called "Chaos Theory", which, greatly oversimplified, states that everything that happens in Nature is connected. The most common example of this is called the "Butterfly Effect". I don't get it myself, but see if it makes sense to you. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]
    http://www.cmp.caltech.edu/~mcc/chaos_new/Lorenz.html
    Right, right, right

    Well, I think this explains everything. No translation from other languages, no cutting and pasting.

    Have you ever read "Finnegan's wake"? That's what we could call weird english. I'll try to be less Joycean next time.[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-09-02 08:15 ]</font>

  24. #24
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    On 2002-09-01 06:42, David Hall wrote:

    No, I disagree. I think it does show someone who's working with a second language, albeit one he knows well. It's very good, but it's not always natural. He shows himself to be a person who knows many difficult words, but he doesn't always use them in the same ways a native speaker does. This is common among people who learn a lot of vocabulary but don't have the experience to use it with all the correct nuances.

    The fact that he's from Brazil also supports this. Are we correct in this Argos?
    Yes, Master.[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

    I have lived in England for some time. I had difficulties in the subsequent years to adapt the British nuances of the english idiom i learned to the overwhelming American way. I don't know if I managed to do it with success. Maybe i'm standing in the middle of nowhere.

    But the "anti-natural" style displayed in my post was somewhat intentional, designed to provoke an emotional response.

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Argos on 2002-09-02 08:37 ]</font>

  25. #25
    On 2002-08-31 00:34, Celestial Mechanic wrote:
    I know from numerous news stories that this cloud has been developing for years. There was one year where the combination of smog and smoke from fires was particularly bad in Singapore and Indonesia.
    yes it was particularly bad but smog was not the problem. singapore is quite close to the part of indonesia where they were burning the forests. it was during the monsoon season where the winds blow from that direction.i have not heard about this asian cloud thing and i'm sure the two are unrelated. i would like to mention all the news papers played the event up. the reason for this i do not know but it really wasn't as bad as they said. i remember in many papers seeing pictures of all these people with face masks on. i think they got every paranoid person in singapore, who actually believed they were in serious danger, to be at the same part of singapore at the same time. it was bad, not that bad.

    it was about 4 or 5 years ago.

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  27. #27
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    Reference:

    (Ramanathan, V., P. J. Crutzen, J. T. Kiehl and D. Rosenfeld, 2001: Aerosols, Climate and
    The Hydrological Cycle. Science, 294, 2119-2124).

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