NASA grounds shuttle fleet

[mopc]

NASA today grounded the space shuttle program while engineers determine the effects of debris falling from Discovery during blastoff, the agency said.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/0...tle/index.html

[Launch window]

oh, no

this might be a serious thing

[mathyou9]

Since this "falling foam" is such a big problem, wouldn't it be safe to assume that it has been a problem for the shuttle since its inception (there just haven't been 100+ cameras in the past to capture such an event)?

[kucharek]

As it has been said, NASA ma now have a problem with all these cameras. We'll see many things that happened all the time before, but went unrecognized. Now NASA has to explain every piece it consideres not harmful.

[Launch window]

If you read the link its says that Several pieces of foam or debris tore away during Discovery's launch despite NASA spending 15 billion dollars on Shuttle-return's safety. As reported shuttle program manager said “Call it luck or whatever, it didn’t harm the orbiter”- Bill Parsons

[Sticks]

Can we continue this on This thread

You have been toseeked

[ToSeek]

If you read the link its says that Several pieces of foam or debris tore away during Discovery's launch despite NASA spending 15 billion dollars on Shuttle-return's safety.

I don't think it was that much (at least I hope not). That's NASA's budget for a year right there.

And I don't see a problem with continuing to discuss the specific grounding issue on this thread - the other thread is addressing a variety of issues, not just this one.

[jt-3d]

There was several small peices of tile. One was a repair that didn't hold. There was also one big chunk of foam that was not supposed to come off but did. That piece came loose in the thin air and was no danger. There were several 'divits' that came loose and they are going to look at all that stuff before they schedule a new launch.
While techically the shuttles are grounded, they're really just looking at what went wrong with this test flight before planning another launch. CNN just thinks 'grounded' sounds more dramatic. Besides how can they be grounded when one is tooling around in space as we speak?

[publiusr]

That's one more orbital craft than the space-libertarians can boast. They are likely going to stay grounded--permanently, due to lack of funds--and lack of interest.

But NASA is an institution that all the blue-hair Apollo Hoax believers have to support with tax money whether they want to or not. :P

Advantage Griffin.

[Jorge]

must now be placed in a orbit that it stays exacly above the landing string 8-[

[Jpax2003]

Now CNN and WGN are reporting that one or two pieces of foam fell off the ET and one probably struck the wing. However, they still think that it wasn't powerful enough to damage anything.

[jt-3d]

Well at least these reports might keep the public interested in the shuttle and space.

[The Supreme Canuck]

Y'know, I'd be more worried about the bird that they hit on the way up...

[CalabashCorolla]

Cmdr. Collins did a fantastic job with the "backflip" of the shuttle earlier today...I'm sure they're going over the pics from the ISS tooth-and-nail as we speak...

From what I understand, the biggest "chunk" of what flew off this time wasn't foam per se, but a piece of railing intended to make the ext. tank more aerodynamic...and this was a part of the tank that no one thought of securing more properly when they were doing the overhaul. Does anyone know more about this?

[kucharek]

Cmdr. Collins did a fantastic job with the "backflip" of the shuttle earlier today...I'm sure they're going over the pics from the ISS tooth-and-nail as we speak...

Saw the clip in the tv news. Looked pretty fast. Was it some time-lapse? I remember old Apollo LM inspection movies, which were taken with a low frame rate and are usually played back with a normal frame rate.

Harald

[Argos]

Why not installing discardable protective caps on the belly and on the wings leading edges?

[Robert Andersson]

Saw the clip in the tv news. Looked pretty fast. Was it some time-lapse?

When they showed it on NASA TV during the briefing, Paul (i think) said it was x5. That was probably the same clip news stations used.

[Launch window]

http://cbsnews.cbs.com/network/news/space/current.html
Shuttle commander talks on foam problem -"This is something that has to be fixed," Collins told CBS Radio. "I don't think we should fly again unless we do something to prevent it from happening again. But I'd also like to point out, we're in the space shuttle Discovery right now, which is operating fantastically.
shuttle mission pic

[Swift]

Why not installing discardable protective caps on the belly and on the wings leading edges?

I also wondered, could you encase the external tank in something like shrink-wrap plastic (over the foam), so that it would contain the pieces of foam (or would we then have pieces of plastic hitting the orbiter)? :-?

[skrap1r0n]

Why not installing discardable protective caps on the belly and on the wings leading edges?

I also wondered, could you encase the external tank in something like shrink-wrap plastic (over the foam), so that it would contain the pieces of foam (or would we then have pieces of plastic hitting the orbiter)? :-?

Shrink wrap the main tank? Now that is just WAY too obvious for NASA, and not expensive or technical enough.

[Jpax2003]

Why not installing discardable protective caps on the belly and on the wings leading edges?

I also wondered, could you encase the external tank in something like shrink-wrap plastic (over the foam), so that it would contain the pieces of foam (or would we then have pieces of plastic hitting the orbiter)? :-?

Intergalactic prophylactic?

[jt-3d]

I don't think shrinkwrap would hold up under supersonic speeds or all those annoying rocket flames. For myself, I concidered chicken wire but that would probably add too much weight and probably wouldn't hold up anyway.

[Jorge]

I got a great idea, lets incapsulate the foam with !more foam!

note: this was sarcasme

[DoktorGreg]

I don't think shrinkwrap would hold up under supersonic speeds or all those annoying rocket flames. For myself, I concidered chicken wire but that would probably add too much weight and probably wouldn't hold up anyway.

Maybe if they used something like chickenwire and foam mixture like stucco on house.

Sure it would weigh more and the shuttle would have less payload, but if its the difference between flying and not flying, I would have to say, go for extra weight and make sure everything is safe.

[Gemini]

Fix it with Ducktape!!!!!! (just kidding)

Or more seriously ditch the large ET altogether and use a rail launch system ( like the Orion III did in 2001, book version) with SRB's mounted directly to the orbiter, aicraft style drop tanks with foam insulation that is coated in plastic, and a ramjet assist.

[jt-3d]

I don't think shrinkwrap would hold up under supersonic speeds or all those annoying rocket flames. For myself, I concidered chicken wire but that would probably add too much weight and probably wouldn't hold up anyway.

Maybe if they used something like chickenwire and foam mixture like stucco on house.

Sure it would weigh more and the shuttle would have less payload, but if its the difference between flying and not flying, I would have to say, go for extra weight and make sure everything is safe.

Hmm, yeah, that's a better idea but I think they'd run into problems with compound curves which is where they are having trouble with the straight foam. Still I think the solution may be along these lines.

[Launch window]

Official Offers Shuttle Foam Loss Theory
AP Aerospace Writer
Fla. - Workers may have accidentally cut or crushed the section of foam that broke off Discovery's fuel tank during its launch two months ago — a mishap that threatened the safety of the astronauts and grounded the shuttle fleet.

That is the leading theory for the cause behind the disturbing loss of foam insulation that cast a cloud over
NASA's return to space, said Wayne Hale, the newly appointed manager of the space shuttle program.

In a wide-ranging interview with The Associated Press on Tuesday, Hale said the shuttle will not fly again until the foam insulation problem is resolved — no sooner than spring.

He also said repair work has been set back because of hurricanes Katrina and Rita. The storms dealt "a severe blow" to resuming shuttle flights and caused NASA to lose three months of work, he said.

In a memo soon after Katrina slammed two shuttle facilities on the Gulf Coast, Hale speculated that the space shuttles might be grounded until fall 2006. He has since backed off that pessimistic view and noted that progress has been made in understanding the foam problem and getting the Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans — which manufactures the tanks — back into limited operation.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...a141410D11.DTL
"We're working a spring kind of launch date, but we haven't established one," he said. May is the earliest, most likely target.

[Launch window]

Cause of Discovery fuel tank foam loss still unresolved
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/shuttl.../051122update/
Four months after the shuttle Discovery's long-awaited return to flight last July, NASA engineers still don't know what caused a large piece of potentially dangerous foam to break away from a so-called PAL ramp on the side of the ship's external fuel tank.

another thread
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=19787

[Swift]

CNN.com article about foam

Under mandate to keep space shuttles grounded until its issues with foam insulation are resolved, NASA discovered nine small cracks in the foam coating on an external tank that had been slated for use by space shuttle Discovery, the agency said Tuesday.

[genebujold]

Even if it's less efficient, perhaps we should simply think about an alternative fuel source, such as RP-1. It was, after all, used in the first stage of Saturn V.