STS launches without Shuttle ( Polus / Skylab method )

[Launch window]

So here are the problems, Americans have not been able to put astronauts into Space for the last 2 and a half years. They have been asking Russians for a lift for astronauts on the ISS, space station experiments and asked Russia for a lift in order to keep USA's manned space flight going.

There might be a lot of work ahead for NASA, possible Hubble repair, a bulk of construction work on the ISS and bringing the space science up to speed. Some info on Shuttle here
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/vi...9&start=50
http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=23045
The Space Shuttle was an was an incredible machine for its day but it is old now and their are risks with it. The USA still needs to do a heap of work on the ISS addition of an integrated truss structure, lifting up the Centrifuge Accomodations Module, adding the 3rd node.....
I saw some of this mentioned in the 'Biggest Payloads' thread. So far Shuttle has been re-vamped but is costing 15 billion dollars and it still hasn't flown.

Could the USA do much of the work with a method like the Saturn-V or Energia-Polyus launch for their space transportation system to space ?
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/sp...an/page_02.htm
http://directory.eoportal.org/pres_S...ceStation.html
http://www.skyrocket.de/space/doc_la...ergiya_tks.htm
http://www.imagesofspace.com/pages/largeskylab.htm
This would decrease the number of Shuttle launches and less human lives would be at risk. They would also launch larger payloads by sending up large station parts without Shuttle

[Manchurian Taikonaut]

There may still be a problem, yes you can get the payload into a similar orbit with the ISS but how do you get it within range of the stations' robot arm safely, accurately without ramming the station. Some of the stations clamps, docking and future nodes were designed expressly for the Shuttle, and the ISS has a port for docking with it.

[pghnative]

Couldn't you place 1-2 launches worth of payload in an ISS-similar orbit, then launch the shuttle with a third payload. Dock with ISS, then "shuttle" back and forth between the other payloads and ISS. Less risk to astronauts since fewer manned launches in total.

The question would be: where do you put the payloads for their parking orbit. Too close to ISS and they could collide. Too far and the shuttle wouldn't have enough fuel to go back and forth. But without running the numbers**, it's not obvious that you couldn't do this.

**two-fold problem here -- a) I don't have the right numbers (e.g. NASA-approved safe distance between ISS and other unmanned satellites; shuttle fuel reserve, etc). b) even if I had them, I personally wouldn't know how to run the numbers

[publiusr]

That was why the Energiya/Buran STS was superior. They were to launch 100 ton pods that could dock on their own--or launch a Buran type orbiter on the third flight with robotic arms to pull them together.

ATK and Griffin were looking at side mount.

Here are some links of interest:

http://www.gzspace.com/ShuttleB.htm
http://www.starbooster.com/aquila.htm
http://www.starbooster.com/starlifter1.htm (closest to Griff's in-line)
http://www.spaceislandgroup.com/shuttleII.html (changes to site to come)

Buran:
www.k26.com/buran
www.buran.ru
http://www.astronautix.com/craft/buran.htm

HLLV-next-gen
wwww.safesimplesoon.htm HLLV-USA
http://www.russianspaceweb.com/angara100.html HLLV-Europe
http://www.marssociety.de/emc/proceedings/Ferra.pdf HLLV-CIS

The simple options:

http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/searagon.htm
http://www.astronautix.com/lvs/bealba2.htm

[Launch window]

NASA are looking at the Shuttle-II prototype and CEV requirements they have called for a launch mass not to exceed 20 metric tons, a weight that could be launched by current EELV ( evolved expendable launch vehicle) Boeing Delta IV and Lockheed Martin Atlas V design. Griffin's heavy 30 ton CEV talk moved the bar up beyond what the current Delta IV or Atlas V designs, or any other current rocket in the world for that matter, can lift thus sending a clear message both to the EELV manufacturers and to the U.S. Air Force, who funded much of the EELV development effort. The message perhaps is that Griffin isn't planning on using their rockets.

[publiusr]

The Air Force and RAND are balking:

http://xprizenews.org/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15504#15504

Scroll down and take a look at the line about 'Air Force wonks.'

Just like those Blue-Suits, too.

[Manchurian Taikonaut]

Couldn't you place 1-2 launches worth of payload in an ISS-similar orbit, then launch the shuttle with a third payload. Dock with ISS, then "shuttle" back and forth between the other payloads and ISS. Less risk to astronauts since fewer manned launches in total.

The question would be: where do you put the payloads for their parking orbit. Too close to ISS and they could collide. Too far and the shuttle wouldn't have enough fuel to go back and forth. But without running the numbers**, it's not obvious that you couldn't do this.

**two-fold problem here -- a) I don't have the right numbers (e.g. NASA-approved safe distance between ISS and other unmanned satellites; shuttle fuel reserve, etc). b) even if I had them, I personally wouldn't know how to run the numbers

There was a really good website that described the launches I'll try to find it

[Jorge]

multiple launches maybe?

Shuttle with crew and 1 or 2 with only payload.

[Launch window]

July 24, 2005
NASA is completing an internal review that proposes using an expendable launch vehicle derived from space shuttle components

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1052


NASA Studying Unmanned Solution to Complete Space Station as Return to Flight Costs Grow

The study is to be completed in the next two to three weeks.

[publiusr]

I'll take HLLV any way they serve it. Top mount, side mount--or with a lemon twist.


Cool links:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/dtomko1962/my_photos
http://www.up-ship.com/Book/bomproj.htm

[Launch window]

So now NASA has been doing a review that looks at expendable launch vehicles derived from STS components to launch and complete the Station following the end of shuttle, if they can get more MPLM mission to be replaced by 2 launches of ESA's JulesVerne ATV, and the Japanese are told to launch HTV themselves on their H-II rocket, that reduces ISS assembly. I have been posting in another thread about alternate methods, Shuttle-C has lower development costs and can lift off using existing launch pads. Russians provide good launches at low cost, perhaps NASA could purchase some Soyuz.

[publiusr]

They still have that iran non-prolif nonsense holding them back. Space is always what people snip at-- right left and sideways...

[Launch window]

http://www.itar-tass.com/eng/level2....eNum%3D0&cid=0
NASA to use Russian spaceships for flights to ISS

Space Station On-Orbit Status
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=19036

supply ship bound for the Space Station
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0512/21progress20p/

NASA Space Station On-Orbit Status
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewsr.html?pid=19036

NASA ANNOUNCES NEXT INTERNATIONAL SPACE STATION CREW

NASA and its international partners have selected astronaut Jeffrey
Williams and Russian cosmonaut Pavel Vinogradov as the next crew for
the International Space Station, designated as Expedition 13.
The next residents of the International Space Station will discuss
their mission during a news conference at 3 p.m. EST (2 p.m. CST),
Thursday, Jan. 12 at NASA's Johnson Space Center, Houston.

The event is live on NASA TV with questions taken from reporters at
agency centers. To participate at Johnson, media should contact the
newsroom at: (281) 483-5111 by noon EST, Wednesday. For information
about NASA TV and digital downlink information, visit:

http://www.nasa.gov/ntv

In March, Expedition 13 Commander Pavel Vinogradov, NASA Flight
Engineer Jeff Williams and Brazilian astronaut Marcos Pontes will
launch aboard a Russian Soyuz (TMA-8) spacecraft. Vinogradov and
Williams will spend six-months on the station. Pontes will spend
eight days conducting research under a commercial agreement between
the Brazilian Space Agency and the Russian Federal Space Agency. He
will return to Earth April 1 with the Expedition 12 crew, Bill
McArthur and Valery Tokarev, who have been in orbit since October.

[publiusr]

Good links.