Artificial Gravity and anti-gravity.. is this the place too?

[dax01]

I know its not astronomy directly related stuff but I would like to know if some of you know if some progress has been made in those subject.

Artificial gravity in space I suppose could be acheive with magnet boots but.. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] I don't think magnet book could be set to a drop of water or a centipede. lol j/k

I read some article on space.com about antigrav experiments. I also sees a theory about geroscop spinning and apprently reducing weitght of the apperel.. What do you think? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

ps. sorry for my english.

[Wiley]

Reporter: Do you think we'll ever develop an artificial gravity machine?
Einstein: We already have. It's called an elevator.

That exchange may be apocryphal, but I like it. Our current knowledge of physics indicates that a antigravity machine like Podkletnov's gravity shield is impossible. Robert Park noted that if one could build a gravity shield, you could build a perpetual motion machine.

A related current event update: Boeing is not funding anti-gravity research contrary to earlier reports. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

"In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" - Homer Simpson

[xriso]

On 2002-08-20 13:20, Wiley wrote:
Reporter: Do you think we'll ever develop an artificial gravity machine?
Einstein: We already have. It's called an elevator.

Or a nice big rocket. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Raz]

On 2002-08-20 13:20, Wiley wrote:
Robert Park noted that if one could build a gravity shield, you could build a perpetual motion machine.

Just a thought, but assuming someone set up their shiny new perpetual motion machine right beside their equally new gravity shield generator, and both worked as advetised [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] , then wouldn't the energy gained by the former machine be balanced against the energy used by the latter?

If so, would the argument: "since a perpetual motion machine is an impossibility, any device that allows one to be created is also impossible" be obviated?

Raz

[Donnie B.]

So, your argument is, 'If a perpetual motion machine were possible, then it wouldn't be impossible'?

[xriso]

On 2002-08-20 20:56, Donnie B. wrote:
So, your argument is, 'If a perpetual motion machine were possible, then it wouldn't be impossible'?

I think the idea is that the antigravity would have to cost so much to create, that the gravitational potential energy gained by objects in its field would not be able to sustain the generator. Or something.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: xriso on 2002-08-21 15:46 ]</font>

[Raz]

I distinctly recall it making more sense at the time... [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Let me try to frame the point differently:

Contemporary p.m. machines are single devices. For various reasons, they can't operate as claimed.

However, let us say that such a machine operating within a 'gravity shield' could produce more energy than it consumed. What I was trying to suggest is that the machine could not produce more than the combined energy consumed by the p.m. machine and the gravity shield generator. Ie, the system of two machines working together still cannot challenge the Law of Thermodynamics.

In other words, a theoretical gravity shield generator wouldn't necessarily lead to a working p.m. system.

Hope that makes more sense. It was only a thought experiment anyway... [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Raz

[Donnie B.]

Ah, now I get it.

Yeah, that's right. Once you couple the two machines together, they now form a single system and Newton's Laws apply in full.

Of course, you can have antigravity machines that function by consuming energy (e.g. a helicopter or rocket), since the entropy increase in the conversion of the fuel into heat exceeds the entropy decrease of the "lift".

[Gsquare]

On 2002-08-20 13:20, Wiley wrote:
...current event update: Boeing is not funding anti-gravity research contrary to earlier reports. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_rolleyes.gif[/img]

Plausible denial.[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Phobos]

The poster was asking about artificial gravity rather than anti-gravity.

Actually it is very easy to create artificial gravity in a spacecraft. The most obvious method is to spin a spacestation, but this is a crude method where the apparent gravity is a poor simulation of Earth gravity (varys in strenght etc.)

My preffered solution is to accelarate your spacecraft at 10 Metres per second per second. Just like the increased G forces experienced by fighter pilots, a spacecraft in zero G with 1G accelaration will have perfect artificial gravity throughout the spacecraft.

The main problem with this method is that it is very energy consuming, but provided we can generate the energy then not only does it work, but it gets us to our destination as quicky as possible.

Phobos