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Thread: Is this true?

  1. #1
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    Is this true?

    I've been coming across references to Earth's crossing the Galactic Plane in 2012, and have done soem research though I don't quite understand what it all means. Then I came across this post at survive2012 http://survive2012.com/bast_theory.php original spelling left intact):
    every 65 million years or so the solar system pass through the galactic plan. our next tresspassing will be in 2012. The galactic plan is the most dense part of the galactic disk. that will be the best time for something to run into us, or us to run into something. - simple as that ....I don't trust that many of the posters there to know much about astronomy, so I humbly lay this item here, hoping someone can explain

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    Foreget about all these nonsense dates, people come up with these dates to get recognition or to sell there books.

    Don't believe these nonsense, just waste of time and money in case you bought there book.

    Thru out human history, there was always, volcanoes, earthquakes, famine, floold, drought and epidimics.

    Join us and let us discuss science and not sience-fiction.

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    Well, that's pretty smug of you, username24! Especially for a newbie. FYI, there is something in astronomy that states there is a galactic crossing, but I don't understand it or it's implications. I'm hoping some of the more experienced members of this board will put a little more thought into their answers :-?

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    The solar system does periodically cross the galactic plane, but so what? The nearest star is still over 4 light years away, we're not going to run into it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2001Intrepid
    Well, that's pretty smug of you, username24! Especially for a newbie. FYI, there is something in astronomy that states there is a galactic crossing, but I don't understand it or it's implications. I'm hoping some of the more experienced members of this board will put a little more thought into their answers :-?
    Well considering that a dense area of space is one that has an object every few million miles, I wouldn't really worry. And just because someone is a newbie that doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about. Having a lot of posts on the board and having a understanding of things is not synonymous.

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    What's the inclination of the sun's orbit relative to the galactic plane?

    The Milky Way is pretty thick and if we really cross the plane in 2012, we are surely since many years already very close to the plane. And I'm sure there are no sudden discontinuities in distribution of suns or interstellar dust etc exactly in the plane. It's not like crossing the ring plane of Saturn.

    Harald

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2001Intrepid
    Well, that's pretty smug of you, username24! Especially for a newbie. FYI, there is something in astronomy that states there is a galactic crossing, but I don't understand it or it's implications. I'm hoping some of the more experienced members of this board will put a little more thought into their answers :-?
    Hang on, now. I've seen many seasoned posters make similar statements. I agree, it is odd, given username24's previous posts (or lack thereof), but his/her comment on its own isn't any worse than some of us have put forth from time to time.

    CJSF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Ferro
    Quote Originally Posted by 2001Intrepid
    Well, that's pretty smug of you, username24! Especially for a newbie. FYI, there is something in astronomy that states there is a galactic crossing, but I don't understand it or it's implications. I'm hoping some of the more experienced members of this board will put a little more thought into their answers :-?
    Hang on, now. I've seen many seasoned posters make similar statements. I agree, it is odd, given username24's previous posts (or lack thereof), but his/her comment on its own isn't any worse than some of us have put forth from time to time.

    CJSF
    My issue is that this appears to be the first time that he/she has responded to a post that that isn't his/hers and it's not nice. Please participate, and do it nicely. And please do some reading and searching first. We all react sometimes, but you seem to have a pattern.

    Back to the subject. I've tried looking up the stuff myself and can't find my answers to how we are orbiting in the galaxy.

    http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/lin...l&edu=high
    At our position in the galaxy, the Milky Way is only about 3,000 light-years thick, which makes it about the same proportions (ratio of thickness to width) as a music CD.
    The Sun (and our solar system) is revolving around the center of the galaxy, and makes a complete revolution every 220 million years or so. As far as we can tell, the Sun and the solar system revolve around the center of the galaxy at a constant radius. The Sun has made less than 25 trips around the galaxy in its lifetime.
    And some good maps.
    http://www.miqel.com/outer-space-inf...milky-way.html

    So my quesion is, how far are we from the galactic plane? And is there some other rotation involved (like the moon around us, around the sun)? Maybe the sun around within some kind of cluster?

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    If we make one rev every 220 million years, I would expect a plane crossing every 110 million years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kucharek
    If we make one rev every 220 million years, I would expect a plane crossing every 110 million years.
    That was my thought, but like I was wondering...
    And is there some other rotation involved (like the moon around us, around the sun)? Maybe the sun around within some kind of cluster?
    That could make it more often.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomWolf
    Quote Originally Posted by 2001Intrepid
    Well, that's pretty smug of you, username24! Especially for a newbie. FYI, there is something in astronomy that states there is a galactic crossing, but I don't understand it or it's implications. I'm hoping some of the more experienced members of this board will put a little more thought into their answers :-?
    Well considering that a dense area of space is one that has an object every few million miles, I wouldn't really worry. And just because someone is a newbie that doesn't mean they don't know what they are talking about. Having a lot of posts on the board and having a understanding of things is not synonymous.
    You're right, phantomwolf. I should have rephrased my comment to reflect that I needed an answer that was was more helpful. But I was feeling attacked by his comment to "Join us in science, not pseudoscience". If Username24 had looked around, s/he'd see that many of the topics here are about pseudoscience, needing to be debunked or clarified. I mean that's sort of the purpose of this whole website, IMO. And I don't feel the galactic crossing is necessarily a pseudoscientific topic, but maybe what the woo's are saying about it is.

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    First, a disclaimer; This is off the top of my head, but IIRC:

    1) The Sun revolves around the galaxy about once every 220 million years.

    2) The motion of the Sun around the galaxy is like that of a horse on a merry-go-round. As it revolves around the galaxy, it also oscillates up and down through the plane. The ratio of oscillations to revolutions is about 10:1, so plane crossings occur about once evey 11 million years (two crossings per oscillation).

    3) The Sun is about 5000 light years (galactic) north of the galactic plane and on a northward leg. So, it is not going to cross the galactic plane anytime soon.

    4) The "event" of 2012 is that the center of the galaxy will be on the ecliptic at the winter solstice. The woo woos are making a big deal of this chance alignment, but I don't se much significant in it.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptain K
    The "event" of 2012 is that the center of the galaxy will be on the ecliptic at the winter solstice.
    [woo-woo]But how did the Mayans know that?[/woo-woo]
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

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    [woo-woo]But how did the Mayans know that?[/woo-woo]

    [debunker]How do we know that they did?
    Maybe it's just a coincidence![/debunker]

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    Well, that's pretty smug of you, username24!
    2001....Don't be too harsh on username. Considering his first few posts about planet X, I think it's a good thing that he said what he did. Perhaps not the best choice of words, but it sounds like username has abandoned his original notions about PX

    Have you, usename24?

    Later

    Pete

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter eldergill
    Well, that's pretty smug of you, username24!
    2001....Don't be too harsh on username. Considering his first few posts about planet X, I think it's a good thing that he said what he did. Perhaps not the best choice of words, but it sounds like username has abandoned his original notions about PX

    Have you, usename24?

    Later

    Pete

    Honestly, I never believed that a huge object was coming towards us.

    I was simply asking about it.

    Have a nice evening.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by username24
    Foreget about all these nonsense dates, people come up with these dates to get recognition or to sell there books.

    Don't believe these nonsense, just waste of time and money in case you bought there book.

    Thru out human history, there was always, volcanoes, earthquakes, famine, floold, drought and epidimics.

    Join us and let us discuss science and not sience-fiction.
    I didn't think I was being too harsh when the reply to my question from username had NOTHING to do with my question and I am directed to "join us" like I'm some kind of outsider that doesn't fit in and discuss science, not science fiction. I was only only asking a question to find out about the science and didn't expect such a rude remark. Sorry, but that's my take on it. Anyway, this is getting old. :-?

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    Galactic Plane and Mayans

    OK, about this 2012 baloney and the Mayans. Some gang of ritual human sacrificers, who happened to make some reasonably good scientific observations of the sky---just to know when to make human sacrifices to their various deities--have a very accurate calander that ends in 2012, but there is no data as to why, other than they ran out of rock to carve on, and this is supposed to be an unimpeachable source of accurate predictions of the supposed coming apocolypse????? If these people were so good at predictions, why did they mistake the Spanish for Quetzecoatl???? A feathered serpent does not look anything like a man on a horse......What is the facination with this so called ancient science?? Almost always it has to do with religious observations, and setting astrological or necromancic dates for some activity, of course they did amazingly well, the penalty for error was severe!!! What all this has to do with the Winter Solstice and the and the Galctic Center, I cannot see....Maybe someone more familiar with the actual Mayan myths can explain this to me....

    Dale in Ala

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    Re: Galactic Plane and Mayans

    Quote Originally Posted by vonmazur
    If these people were so good at predictions, why did they mistake the Spanish for Quetzecoatl???? A feathered serpent does not look anything like a man on a horse......
    okay, first off, you only get one question mark. really.

    second, that was the Aztecs, not the Maya. the Maya civilization fell a couple centuries before the arrival of the Spaniards.

    third, we have only one man's word that the Aztec believed Cortes was Quetzalcoatl--Cortes. in fact, the only thing that's even a possibility, as far as I'm concerned, is that they thought he was a messenger for said god, especially given that he would have made no bones about working for a great king.

    I'm not saying that the Maya did, in fact, know about the end of the world. I don't think they did. I'm saying that a badly-punctuated rant full of historical inaccuracies is, well, what I expect from the other side of the argument, and it doesn't convince anyone when they do it, so.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Galactic Plane and Mayans

    Quote Originally Posted by vonmazur
    OK, about this 2012 baloney and the Mayans. Some gang of ritual human sacrificers, who happened to make some reasonably good scientific observations of the sky---just to know when to make human sacrifices to their various deities--have a very accurate calander that ends in 2012, but there is no data as to why, other than they ran out of rock to carve on, and this is supposed to be an unimpeachable source of accurate predictions of the supposed coming apocolypse????? If these people were so good at predictions, why did they mistake the Spanish for Quetzecoatl???? A feathered serpent does not look anything like a man on a horse......What is the facination with this so called ancient science?? Almost always it has to do with religious observations, and setting astrological or necromancic dates for some activity, of course they did amazingly well, the penalty for error was severe!!! What all this has to do with the Winter Solstice and the and the Galctic Center, I cannot see....Maybe someone more familiar with the actual Mayan myths can explain this to me....

    Dale in Ala
    I think where the woowoo's got this notion of the galactic center was this book http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...798394-0059053 which I have not read but hear about it all the time in their rantings. I think the book was a scholarly endeavor about mythology, though I haven't read it. I believe it discusses ancient beliefs about the "axis mundi" or center of the universe, hence the current fascination with the center of the galaxy. Another author, John Jenkins http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/AS...798394-0059053 has written a few pseudo-intellectual books about this center of the galaxy thing. But I ask, what is it's significance to us Earthlings? What, if anything, will happen?

  21. #21
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    Re: Galactic Plane and Mayans

    Quote Originally Posted by vonmazur
    OK, about this 2012 baloney and the Mayans. Some gang of ritual human sacrificers, who happened to make some reasonably good scientific observations of the sky---just to know when to make human sacrifices to their various deities--have a very accurate calander that ends in 2012, but there is no data as to why, other than they ran out of rock to carve on, <snip>
    my bold
    I don't disagree with your fundamental point. But their calander no more ends in 2012 than our calendar ended in 2000. Like we have weeks, months, years, centuries, millenium, their calendar had cycles within cycles and one of their cycles ends in 2012. Even that is an educated guess, their calendar was very precise, but IIRC, the "alignment" that puts 2012 as the end of their cycle is an educated guess. How many of you know what year it is in the Hebrew calendar, without Goggling it? :wink:

    (edited for a bad typo)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek
    Quote Originally Posted by Kaptain K
    The "event" of 2012 is that the center of the galaxy will be on the ecliptic at the winter solstice.
    [woo-woo]But how did the Mayans know that?[/woo-woo]
    A couple of points here.

    The center of the galaxy is close to -28 degrees declination while the ecliptic varies from +23.5 to -23.5 degrees declination. The center of the Galaxy is not going to be on the ecliptic in 2012 or in the near future.

    Vedic astrologers did know the approximate location of the center of the galaxy. They didn't know why, but they did know that place in the sky was important for some reason.

    There is a close alignment of the sun with the center of the galaxy on the winter solstice. I'm sure this is a coincidence.

  23. #23
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    every 65 million years or so the solar system pass through the galactic plan. our next tresspassing will be in 2012. The galactic plan is the most dense part of the galactic disk. that will be the best time for something to run into us, or us to run into something. - simple as that


    I know what's going to happen. We're gonna get caught space trespassing and will end up in some black hole of a jail.....

    sorry, couldn't resist!

    Regards, tbm

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by foxd
    A couple of points here.

    The center of the galaxy is close to -28 degrees declination while the ecliptic varies from +23.5 to -23.5 degrees declination. The center of the Galaxy is not going to be on the ecliptic in 2012 or in the near future.
    4.5 degrees is close, though. The next appearance of Venus as the evening star (after the current apparition) has it almost dead on the center of the galaxy, in early November.

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    Re: Galactic Plane and Mayans

    Quote Originally Posted by Swift
    my bold
    I don't disagree with your fundamental point. But their calander no more ends in 2012 than our calendar ended in 2000. Like we have weeks, months, years, centuries, millenium, their calendar had cycles within cycles and one of their cycles ends in 2012. Even that is an educated guess, their calendar was very precise, but IIRC, the "alignment" that puts 2012 as the end of their cycle is an educated guess. How many of you know what year it is in the Hebrew calendar, without Goggling it? :wink:

    (edited for a bad typo)
    Actually, that's not quite accurate. From what I understand, their calendar is like our days, weeks, months, but "years" were a concept unknown to them. Instead, every X months created a named 'age' of a sort. However, even these ages came in one really, really long cycle. Just as we always go from Sunday to Monday, in a loop, their ages go in a loop for an entire cycle.

    The trick is, the only cycle so far runs from a long, long time before Europeans visited, right up to 2012 (or so). At that point, the cycle ends... and that's it. It's not supposed to link up and go back to the beginning, apparently.

    So, the wise men of the day who figured out when the calendar would "run out" decided it meant that the world would undergo a change at that point which would render their calendar moot. Some interpret that as "the end of the world," others that it's simply a change to a different form of reality... when most likely, it's just that their calendar is broken. Seems they had their own version of a Y2K bug. 8-[

  26. #26
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    Re: Galactic Plane and Mayans

    Quote Originally Posted by Kesh
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift
    my bold
    I don't disagree with your fundamental point. But their calander no more ends in 2012 than our calendar ended in 2000. Like we have weeks, months, years, centuries, millenium, their calendar had cycles within cycles and one of their cycles ends in 2012. Even that is an educated guess, their calendar was very precise, but IIRC, the "alignment" that puts 2012 as the end of their cycle is an educated guess. How many of you know what year it is in the Hebrew calendar, without Goggling it? :wink:

    (edited for a bad typo)
    Actually, that's not quite accurate. From what I understand, their calendar is like our days, weeks, months, but "years" were a concept unknown to them. Instead, every X months created a named 'age' of a sort. However, even these ages came in one really, really long cycle. Just as we always go from Sunday to Monday, in a loop, their ages go in a loop for an entire cycle.

    The trick is, the only cycle so far runs from a long, long time before Europeans visited, right up to 2012 (or so). At that point, the cycle ends... and that's it. It's not supposed to link up and go back to the beginning, apparently.

    So, the wise men of the day who figured out when the calendar would "run out" decided it meant that the world would undergo a change at that point which would render their calendar moot. Some interpret that as "the end of the world," others that it's simply a change to a different form of reality... when most likely, it's just that their calendar is broken. Seems they had their own version of a Y2K bug. 8-[
    But then, what about this prediction:

    http://home.att.net/~thehessians/MayanCalendar.html

    I don't get it if the world ends or changes, how can this happen? I had also read that their calendar turns to 13.0.0.0.0 on december 21, 2012. So I had read the nest day would be 13.0.0.0.1

  27. #27
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    Altho it wasn't described as a Galactic Plane, I think this relates to what this post is about. According to...

    BBC Documentary - Space - Ep3 - Staying Alive

    It's not running into other stars that is the worry, it's the comets that are flung around and sent our way.

    As the sun "bobs" up and down, we pass a area where the stars are at their densest. We pass through this area every 30 milion years or so. We last passed through about 1 million years ago, but it takes 1 million years for the comets that are flung from those stars to reach us

  28. #28
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    Sun's true position - more or less...

    Hi All

    According to the Encyclopedia Galactica (Wikipedia) the Sun is ~ 113 light years above the Galaxy's fundamental plane...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactic_coordinate_system

    ...and we cross it every ~ 30 million years or so. I'd say our last plane crossing was a few megayears ago if a prior occasion was the doom of the dinosaurs.

    Abraxas

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nethius
    Altho it wasn't described as a Galactic Plane, I think this relates to what this post is about. According to...

    BBC Documentary - Space - Ep3 - Staying Alive

    It's not running into other stars that is the worry, it's the comets that are flung around and sent our way.

    As the sun "bobs" up and down, we pass a area where the stars are at their densest. We pass through this area every 30 milion years or so. We last passed through about 1 million years ago, but it takes 1 million years for the comets that are flung from those stars to reach us
    If that would be the case, we would have seen another extinction caused by a meteor since the time of the dinosaurs. We haven't seen it and we don't know if it takes a million years for them to get here. It is a theory at best. Also, the idea that comets are flung around has to do with the oort cloud if I am not wrong. The sun doesn't fling any comets, a theory said that "Nemesis or Nibiru " or another object could send them our way. Flinging comets our way has nothing to do with the sun or us crossing the galactic plane as far as I know.

    And that still doesn't mean that a comet would come in 2012. Woowoos use this to sell books and make profits.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by collegeguy
    Quote Originally Posted by Nethius
    Altho it wasn't described as a Galactic Plane, I think this relates to what this post is about. According to...

    BBC Documentary - Space - Ep3 - Staying Alive

    It's not running into other stars that is the worry, it's the comets that are flung around and sent our way.

    As the sun "bobs" up and down, we pass a area where the stars are at their densest. We pass through this area every 30 milion years or so. We last passed through about 1 million years ago, but it takes 1 million years for the comets that are flung from those stars to reach us
    If that would be the case, we would have seen another extinction caused by a meteor since the time of the dinosaurs. We haven't seen it and we don't know if it takes a million years for them to get here. It is a theory at best. Also, the idea that comets are flung around has to do with the oort cloud if I am not wrong. The sun doesn't fling any comets, a theory said that "Nemesis or Nibiru " or another object could send them our way. Flinging comets our way has nothing to do with the sun or us crossing the galactic plane as far as I know.

    And that still doesn't mean that a comet would come in 2012. Woowoos use this to sell books and make profits.
    [cough]Wrong Use of The Word, Threory ...[/cough]

    Not to Disparage you, Or Anything ...

    But, we Do TRY, To Keep From Giving The Woo^2s, Ideas!

    :^o

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