The Best aero/space fighter in Science Fiction

[Jpax2003]

I thought we might have a thread that is for the unsung heros of space combat -- the light fast and maneuverable fighter craft. Actually, it can be an attack or light bomber craft too, but something smaller than a destroyer, cruiser or dreadnaught type of capital ship. I think you all know what I mean.

Anyways, I like the similar designs of the SW X-wing and B5 Star furies, especially the Thunderbolt Starfuries, but I think the similarly designed GunStar from The Last Starfighter is better than both. It carries lasers, particle beams, various rocket propelled missiles. It has interstellar range with an onboard FTL, and stealth and jamming capability. I think the two-crew design is better than a single operator. And of course, it has the kamikazi-style "Death Blossom" berzerker attack mode.

What's your favorite space fighter craft?

[Bilateralrope]

I like the starfurry fighters because they are the most realistic design for a starfighter that I've seen. And they have the best launch sequence. Who else actually drops their fighters into space ?

I'm not sure if the thunderbolts are the best design for an air and space fighter, but their design had the added problem of having to fit in a starfurry launch bay

[Togusa]

Anyways, I like the similar designs of the SW X-wing and B5 Star furies, especially the Thunderbolt Starfuries, but I think the similarly designed GunStar from The Last Starfighter is better than both. It carries lasers, particle beams, various rocket propelled missiles. It has interstellar range with an onboard FTL, and stealth and jamming capability. I think the two-crew design is better than a single operator. And of course, it has the kamikazi-style "Death Blossom" berzerker attack mode.

And the movie has legendary thespians like Robert Preston and Dan O'Herlihy playing aliens.

I thought that the GunStar was a very good design -- a fighter obviously designed for three-dimensional combat in space, with thrusters capable of pointing it (and any of its weapons) in any direction at the tap of the appropriate control almost instantly. And this nearly a decade before the similarly-designed Starfury. (Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting that the Starfury is a rip-off of the GunStar.)

What's your favorite space fighter craft?

A few I can think of:

- The YF-19 and YF-21 variable fighters from "Macross Plus", particularly the latter because it was based on the Northrop-McDonnell Douglas YF-23 Advanced Tactical Fighter prototype. (I have an artbook for "Macross Plus" that notes this, along with the fact that the OAV's mechanical designer and director took private air combat training as prep work for the series' climactic dogfight between the YF-19 and YF-21).

- The Skygrasper from "Gundam SEED". Although designed mainly to transport special weapons modules to the show's "hero mech", the Strike Gundam, the atmospheric fighter can use those weapons modules itself in a pinch. One of my favorite Skygrasper configurations has it carrying the weapons of the Strike Gundam's "Launcher" configuration, which includes a huge 320mm "hyper impulse cannon" powerful enough to blow out the side of a space colony -- think of an F-15 armed with a battleship main gun.

- I thought the Hammerhead fighters from the Fox show "Space: Above and Beyond" were a rather striking combination of atmospheric and space fighter designs, along with the concept of the pilots boarding the fighter by getting into a cockpit capsule which is then docked into the rest of the vehicle. (BTW, I hear the show's coming to DVD later this year or early next year, at least in the US.)

- Activision and Warthog created the warp-capable Valkyrie fighter (not to be confused with the transformable space fighter of the same name from "Super Dimensional Fortress Macross", aka "Robotech: The Macross Saga") for the PlayStation game "Star Trek Invasion", but I'm not sure how, or even if, these craft are considered part of the ST canon, even though "Star Trek Invasion" was a licensed Star Trek game.

[Bilateralrope]

- Activision and Warthog created the warp-capable Valkyrie fighter (not to be confused with the transformable space fighter of the same name from "Super Dimensional Fortress Macross", aka "Robotech: The Macross Saga") for the PlayStation game "Star Trek Invasion", but I'm not sure how, or even if, these craft are considered part of the ST canon, even though "Star Trek Invasion" was a licensed Star Trek game.

For star trek, only the shows are cannon.

Could someone please ind me a picture of these gunstar fighters ?

[Jpax2003]

The Last Starfighter movie at IMDB

There is a side view at Starship Dimensions. Click on the 10X tab and the Gunstar is most of the way down on the far right side. They also have other space fighters there too. BTW, you can click and move the images to be side by side for comparison.

Here's an interesting site I goggled that had some images. I think the images are take of a model. The main page has links to other spacecraft as well.

edit to add:
Here is a site where a fan made their own meshes. The images are high res.

Here is a site with a good synopsis of the movie.

Edit 2 to add:
Here is a technical article on the making of the CGI on The Last Starfighter. Halfway down is a drawing of original Gunstar design. Time constraints made them stick with a more geometric design. While I think the original design would be better in an aerospace role, the eventual design seems better suited for a space-primary role. THe movie design also looks like a more heavil armored design. I could see both being useful in a sequel. I'd be interested in writing that.

[Kizarvexis]

- Activision and Warthog created the warp-capable Valkyrie fighter (not to be confused with the transformable space fighter of the same name from "Super Dimensional Fortress Macross", aka "Robotech: The Macross Saga") for the PlayStation game "Star Trek Invasion", but I'm not sure how, or even if, these craft are considered part of the ST canon, even though "Star Trek Invasion" was a licensed Star Trek game.

For star trek, only the shows are cannon.

Could someone please ind me a picture of these gunstar fighters ?

Here is a page with pics of the Gunstar.

I like the Aurora Starfury and the Thunderbolt from Babylon 5. The two seat Badger Starfury is pretty cool as well. The Narn Frazi was cool and the Minbari Nial had the interesting layout for the pilot.

Kizarvexis

[The Supreme Canuck]

I've always liked the B-Wing and Imperial Shuttle from Star Wars. I really couldn't say why.

[Daniel H.]

I favor the various Starfury designs followed by the Gunstar. They are simply the best space fighter designs I've seen.

[Bilateralrope]

Looking at these pics of the gunstar fighters, the only significant dfference is that the pilots in the gunstars is further foward than the pilot in a starfury. This would put him further away from the center of rotation, meaning that he would feel more centrifugal force as the ship spins . This would reduce the maximum rate of ratation.

[Jpax2003]

Looking at these pics of the gunstar fighters, the only significant dfference is that the pilots in the gunstars is further foward than the pilot in a starfury. This would put him further away from the center of rotation, meaning that he would feel more centrifugal force as the ship spins . This would reduce the maximum rate of ratation.

True, but you're thinking of the Gunner. The Pilot/Navigator is closer to the COG. However it's hard to tell where the COG actually is, but the mass appears to be toward the rear. A very quick pivot might be painful on the gunner, but less so for the pilot, and such a maneuver may be intended for evasion. Since the Gunstar uses gun turrets, the need to point the craft in battle is less important, but the increased visibility is arguably more important. If you look closely at the Gunstar designs it appears to have 5 turreted guns, with two to the rear, two to the front, slightly off center above, and one on the centerline bottom with an clear field of fire for most of that hemisphere.

I like the Starfuries, but they appear to only fire forward. The Thunderbolts do appear to carry rockets, but I don't recall them on the regular Starfuries. I think the Thunderbolts may also have a crew of 2. I'm not familiar with any other type of Starfury, but Kizarvexis mentioned other varieties.

[Jpax2003]

Copied from the Starship thread, that that's cool with everyone.

Now that is an ugly, bulky starfighter.

(What's with the empty space between the missile launchers? No openings to indicate ramscoops or anything... :-? )

Fuel storage? It may be a storage area that holds missle pods to be loaded into the firing bays.

[Lianachan]

I really like the TIE series from Star Wars - particularly the Interceptor and Vader's prototype of the Advanced.

Still with Star Wars, I also really like Jango & Boba Fett's ship Slave I. I think it's probably small enough to qualify...

[captain swoop]

I like the Tie fighters, they look like they are designed for combat in space and not to look like what people expect fighters to be.
Not very good allround vision though.

[Lianachan]

I like the Tie fighters, they look like they are designed for combat in space and not to look like what people expect fighters to be.

Yup. No wings as such. I like that aspect of them too.

Not very good allround vision though.

Yes, not ideal. No shields, either, as you're not expected to be concerned about your safety if you're flying one. Still - fast, maneouvrable, well armed, cool looking and even better sounding.

Note for pedants: Sound!? In space!? Yes. I know.

[PhantomWolf]

Yes, not ideal. No shields, either, as you're not expected to be concerned about your safety if you're flying one.

Early on the Imperials believed in skill be shown in testing enviroments, this is why the TIE-fighters were fast and manoevourable, but without shields. As a result, few Imperial pilots survived past their first encounters. Those that survived five combat missions were promoted to the faster and more robust TIE-Intercepter as they had shown themselves to be a superior pilot. The best of the best were later issued with TIE-Advanced which sported both a hyperdrive and shields making it more of a 1-1 match with the Rebel Craft. Unfortunately the Empire was in decline by then and so they didn't have the affect that they would of had they been in popular use during and before the Battle of Endor.

Later on when the Imperial Remanant didn't have quite the population resourses, shields were introduced to the Interceptors and Fighters as well so that pilots weren't lost quite so easily to the New Republic forces which had by then introduced the tougher E-Wings.

Also, though they are more nimble in space than any of the Rebel/New Republic fighters, in a atmosphere the solar panels mean that it is hard to slip sideways and they lose out to the more aerodynamic craft such as the X-Wing and A-Wing, so....

[Lianachan]

Yes, not ideal. No shields, either, as you're not expected to be concerned about your safety if you're flying one.

Early on the Imperials believed in skill be shown in testing enviroments, this is why the TIE-fighters were fast and manoevourable, but without shields. As a result, few Imperial pilots survived past their first encounters. Those that survived five combat missions were promoted to the faster and more robust TIE-Intercepter as they had shown themselves to be a superior pilot. The best of the best were later issued with TIE-Advanced which sported both a hyperdrive and shields making it more of a 1-1 match with the Rebel Craft. Unfortunately the Empire was in decline by then and so they didn't have the affect that they would of had they been in popular use during and before the Battle of Endor.

Later on when the Imperial Remanant didn't have quite the population resourses, shields were introduced to the Interceptors and Fighters as well so that pilots weren't lost quite so easily to the New Republic forces which had by then introduced the tougher E-Wings.

Also, though they are more nimble in space than any of the Rebel/New Republic fighters, in a atmosphere the solar panels mean that it is hard to slip sideways and they lose out to the more aerodynamic craft such as the X-Wing and A-Wing, so....

Yup. All very EU though. I've always liked the parallel between the Luftwaffe during WWII and the Empire, in that they were both introducing astonishing machines which could really have made a difference if they'd been around a couple of years earlier.

[PhantomWolf]

Yup. All very EU though. I've always liked the parallel between the Luftwaffe during WWII and the Empire, in that they were both introducing astonishing machines which could really have made a difference if they'd been around a couple of years earlier.

True, though for me, while the Films provide the skeleton the Expanded Universe is the meat and flavour that fills in and creates the overall atmosphere of SW.

Of course the Empire has more in common then just the lateness of the Tech after all it was modelled after both Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, something that can be seen very well in the Imperial Uniforms (c.f. the Nazi Officer Uniforms.)

Of course the space fights also had their origins back in WWII as well with Lucas using footage from the Battle of Britian and other WWII air battles for the inspriation for the SW space battles. This is the reason that SW fighters act like airplanes even in space.

[Kemal]

The Star Fury of Babylon5 looks the best and seems well designed.

But star fighters do not make much sense to me. I do not see how dogfights could happen in space when you can see your enemy coming from across the solar system. You must put in life support for the pilot, retrieve the pilot, etc. So why not just use an armed unmanned drone? No need for years of training a pilot, just put in a flight program. And it can take more G forces.

Maybe if they are more like patrol boats that go out behind a planet/moon or something it would make sense, but as fighters they seem somewhat unlikely.

[Lianachan]

Yup. All very EU though. I've always liked the parallel between the Luftwaffe during WWII and the Empire, in that they were both introducing astonishing machines which could really have made a difference if they'd been around a couple of years earlier.

True, though for me, while the Films provide the skeleton the Expanded Universe is the meat and flavour that fills in and creates the overall atmosphere of SW.

Of course the Empire has more in common then just the lateness of the Tech after all it was modelled after both Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia, something that can be seen very well in the Imperial Uniforms (c.f. the Nazi Officer Uniforms.)

Of course the space fights also had their origins back in WWII as well with Lucas using footage from the Battle of Britian and other WWII air battles for the inspriation for the SW space battles. This is the reason that SW fighters act like airplanes even in space.

Yup. Some of that is, as you no doubt know, mentioned on the "Bonus" DVD that comes with the OT DVD set.

[PhantomWolf]

Fighters serve the same purpose as Military Aircraft today do. After all you could ask what the point of Naval Aircraft is when you can park a destroyer off the coast and assualt the opponent into the stone age with Cruise missiles.

Also Fighters improve the numbers game. 50 fighters are harder to knock out than 1 capital ship. They also provide screens to stop bombing attacks, or for doing and protection for bombing runs on the opponent.

Finally just as with a Aircraft Carrier, they allow the fleet to attack an area without putting the major capital ships in harms way.

Using some sort of droid or distance controlled fighter might sound good, but they are vulnerable to jamming amongst other things.

[captain swoop]

with the ai and computer technology of the Empire completely automated ships should be a doddle.

[Lianachan]

with the ai and computer technology of the Empire completely automated ships should be a doddle.

Especially considering there already were droid fighters in the Star Wars story, fighting in the Clone Wars. A useful bit of technology that would have been worth using, probably.

[mid]

with the ai and computer technology of the Empire completely automated ships should be a doddle.

One of the things the Prequel trilogy highlights is that droid fighters aren't considered a tactical match for their cloned opposition in the Star Wars universe, however.

[Halcyon Dayz]

A droid fighter would have been able to make high-g turns.
The sharpest turns as allowed by engineering rather than biology.

I always wondered why there weren't any fighters in the Star Trek universe.
All the required technology seems to have been available.

[teddyv]

A droid fighter would have been able to make high-g turns.
The sharpest turns as allowed by engineering rather than biology.

I always wondered why there weren't any fighters in the Star Trek universe.
All the required technology seems to have been available.

I recall only one incident of evidence of Federation fighters, that was in TNG in the Borg episode (Best of Both Worlds?) as the Cube passes Jupiter and wipes out 3 small craft. I haven't seen many DS9 so maybe there are more.

It did bug me that ST essentially treated its capital ships as fighters, (eg the battle at Wolf 359 from the first episode of DS9). Artificial gravity or not, thats a lot of stress on a crew of 400+.

[Gullible Jones]

The Starfuries are nice, but the 4 wings are overly redundant.

(I assume the Starfury is designed for subsonic flight in atmosphere, as well as spaceflight?)

[Lycus]

(I assume the Starfury is designed for subsonic flight in atmosphere, as well as spaceflight?)

I think the Thunderbolts were, but not the regular Starfuries.

[Doodler]

For best looking fighter, I'm with the B-Wing. Its got a compact and sleek profile in cruise mode, a very hard to target profile in combat mode, and enough firepower to make a capital ship captain sit up and take notice.

[Sock Munkey]

One thing that amuses me about the robotech fighters in "gerwalk mode" is that operating an air vehicle at ground level like that creates an air cushion effect which is actually very effecient at low to medium seeds.
A rare case of something that "looks cool" turning out to be right!

[Jpax2003]

A droid fighter would have been able to make high-g turns.
The sharpest turns as allowed by engineering rather than biology.

I always wondered why there weren't any fighters in the Star Trek universe.
All the required technology seems to have been available.

I recall only one incident of evidence of Federation fighters, that was in TNG in the Borg episode (Best of Both Worlds?) as the Cube passes Jupiter and wipes out 3 small craft. I haven't seen many DS9 so maybe there are more.

It did bug me that ST essentially treated its capital ships as fighters, (eg the battle at Wolf 359 from the first episode of DS9). Artificial gravity or not, thats a lot of stress on a crew of 400+.

Didn't Wesley Crusher get into trouble performing an outlawed maneuver with a fighter squad?

I think Halcyon is right about forces, but a better tactic might be a pivot which is low g. THe B5 Starfuries (and Whitestars and other medium class vessels) pivot as they pass a vessel to keep guns on target. Turreted guns would create even less g-force concerns. The gunstar is the only space fighter I am aware of with a multi-turreted design, although many capital ships from different armadas have turrets.