Who turned on the Way-Back machine?
Who turned on the Way-Back machine?
Nope... you've just been under the mistaken impression that humanity becomes wiser with the passage of time. There is in fact no connection between the two.Originally Posted by TimH
Come on TimH, this has been shown time and time again!! [-(
I just hope they teach the true story of evolution.
Edit: Removed link per EMPs post.
I disagree; I believe wisdom is like affluence. The richer get richer and the poorer get poorer so keeping with that the unwise get wiserless (My new word for the day 8-[ ) and the wise get short and green and speak backwards.Originally Posted by Lurker
Semi-ToSeeked!Originally Posted by TimH
AARRGH!!! I cannot believe it... Once is stupid, twice is absolutely bloody ridiculous!
(Frogesque: that animation is funny, but it's also rather offensive. Not all men are like that, you know, although a fair number certainly are.)
And not all women are like that one, either. :P :wink:
Interesting that wanting control over what your children are taught has become synonymous with wanting "control over government."Originally Posted by The CNN Article
But this thread is destined to get political, isn't it?
I think what people don't like is the bit about controlling what other people's children are taught.Originally Posted by SeanF
Not to mention that one's children are not one's property. They have the right to a good education, regardless of the religious convictions of their parents, or at least they should have that right.
Its the same with wind turbines in the UK.
Wanting to have their cake and eat it too.(edit- I mean the protesters against)
If the creationists want creationisum or ID taught in school then they should also have to go live in a draughty log cabin in the woods with no electricity or running water and walk behind a plow pulled by an ox.
Then they can believe and teach what they like.
Are you suggesting that in this case one side is trying to do that and the other side isn't?Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
That's scary. Who determines what's a "good education" and what isn't?Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
Actually, a parent is welcome to teach philosophy, religious beliefs, morals, and other values to their children. In fact they have a lot of control over this territory. The question is what should be taught in school. That's why I have so much trouble with this whole controversery. Evolution is a legitimate scientific model while creationism and intelligent design are not.Originally Posted by SeanF
It's not like the school is threatening to require students to study philosophies or religions that that their parents disagree with. They want to make evolution a required part of a science curriculum . Where do we go from here? What if people decide that calculus is the devil's tool?? Or that one must not study organic chemistry because it might lead to an understanding DNA which is forbidden by some religion?? Are we back to religion controlling what is or is not orthodox knowledge??
Do we have to go back to the idea that the planets orbit the sun in perfect circles? Do we have to go back to an earth centered solar system??
Trying to censor a scientific topic from a science curriculum does meet my definition of "controlling".Originally Posted by SeanF
How about the Kansas Board of Education? They seem to be in charge of it already.Originally Posted by SeanF
Great. So what's the problem with what's going on down there?Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
bring on Ganesh,
that should scare the fundies.
You said it yourself: it's scary. :POriginally Posted by SeanF
Argh... Big ugly elephant... no shirt... stretch marks... nooooo!
:P That's not what I said was scary!Originally Posted by Disinfo Agent
Why is it scary that the KBoE is doing exactly what you said they should do, deciding what's a good education?
I'm assuming that if the KBoE were to decide that creationism is part of a "good education," that you would then conclude that they shouldn't be in charge of that decision - am I right?
Nothing like conquering the future when the present is too stubborn to cooperate. Impressionable minds are easy territory to cover. Too many doubts, still not quite sure of the line between fantasy and reality, and not enough information to adequately sort fact from fable.Originally Posted by SeanF
I can't believe the US has this insane evolution v creationism debate. Here in Australia there really is no such issue. We're not so obssessed about the separation of church and state. At my public school I went to scripture classes once a week (If you weren't Chrisitan you could get a note from your parents excusing from it). But most of us went. It was just another class, except we cared even less.
Mind you, the politicans here seem to want to bring up the whole Abortion thing, and are considering lowering funding for IVF treatment. Maybe creationism is next.
you mean it's not?Originally Posted by Lurker
"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"
"You can't erase icing."
"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
What's scary is that they're considering changing the science part of the curriculum because of religion/populism.Originally Posted by SeanF
When I learned biology in high school, creationism was discussed. Is it different in Kansas?Originally Posted by SeanF
If the creationists want to change science lessons into religious classes, perhaps they should let them but they would have to learn about all different types of creationism from all the major religions and then when the students can't get places at college perhaps the parents will think better of it. Although perhaps just Kansas could be an experiment in this.
I say put god in science lessons. Then just have the teachers explain god can't possibly exist because he refuses to prove he exists but he created the universe and mankind so hasn't he proven he exists already so logically he can't exist.
IMO god and politics should never go together because you can't have faith in politicians and so if god let them get there then we shouldn't have faith in him. Heck if they let creationism then he's going to be creating more poverty in a rich country because they're never going to get into university and even if they do they won't have degrees respected in other countries.
To be honest I can't remember mention of creationism in school. Biology never mentioned religion and religion only covered it in the first 2 years and then they tried to brainwash us for 3 years but it did the exact opposite.
It seems that the creationists want to nail down god so they know where he is, they want to contol him. Plus they have so little belief that they want the government to tell them that god exists.
About religion lessons in school:Originally Posted by electromagneticpulse
I don't remember any religion lessons trying to convince me of creationism as a fact. I was learned the story of creation (the 7 days thing) as a fictive story, not as fact.
Religion lessons were more about the practical parts of religion, often illustrated with a story, clearly indicated as such. I've followed both Christian and atheist lessons, and I must say that the only difference was that the atheist lessons used other stories to make the point clear, but that was about it.
Maybe I just had a healthy way of being taught religion? 8-[
Have a care!!! The math gods have great power!!! [-(Originally Posted by Gillianren
Indeed they do, sir, most of those powers are indescribably evil. :wink:Originally Posted by Lurker
Best article on this debate I have seen in a long time, from MSNBC on line:
Einstein and Darwin: A tale of two theories
Q&A with ĎOriginsí astronomer Neil deGrasse Tyson
His discussion of theories vs laws and you can't work in genetics fields if you don't get it are just superb. I hope a copy goes to each member of the Kansas school board.
I'll never understand this debate. Ok, yes, Darwinian evolution is a theory. Theories can't be proven to be absolutely correct. Therefore, a theory is not, nor is it ever destined to be, fact. If education boards don't understand this, maybe they need a better education...
The part I don't get is how demonstrating that Evolution is a theory automatically puts Intelligent Design or Creation Science on equal footing. Neither are testable, therefore neither are theories. Does that mean, to some people, they're fact? 'Cause to me, they're issues of blind faith, and I don't believe that is something that should be or can be taught.