Interesting, certainly. A "chem" trail? Nah.
Look back through this thread. It has been gone over a number of times. Contrail formation depends on a lot of variables, temp, pressure, altitude, humidity, throttle settings etc. You can watch an aircraft fly over leaving a trail in some places along its track and not in others.
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Okay, sorry for not looking over the rest of the forum but I thought the video was quite interesting.
If there are so many variables why are the consistent trails so common?
I'm not a believer, at all, but the video made me wonder. If there were at the same height, they would have been at the same altitude, temperature, pressure, humidty and only from what you said, the throttle settings could have been different.
Surely a chemtrail believer would argue that since you can see it in some and not in others, along with it being at the same time, that actually they are chemtrails.
I'm just curious is all, my mother and stepfather are firm believers.
How do you know they were at the same height?
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Well when it comes to engine types, one of the most common is the CFM56...used in virtually all the 737s flying today, and the Airbus 319-321 series...and there are a LOT of these types flying constantly. Rolls Royce RB211s, same story. GE CF6 series...ditto. So there's a lot of commonality in the propulsion area. The smaller twin jets are the most prevelent for short to medium hauls, the bigger 3-4 engine planes for the longer runs (DC-10/MD11, 747, A340 etc)...which can put out wicked thick contrails.
But so much depends on all the variables coming together, or not.
In fact if you dig deep into the interweb, there is a picture somewhere showing two planes at the same altitude (photographed by another behind them), and one is contrailing, while the other is not. I'm being lazy not giving a link, sorry, but someone might have it readily to hand...
Having said that, 50 feet difference in altitude can be enough to mean no contrails v. contrails. Look up wind shear..
Added - here ya go:
Last edited by chrlzs; 2010-Mar-18 at 07:30 AM. Reason: added link..
I feel for you... It may be easier to ignore the issue rather than try and change their minds, which is probably pretty much much impossible.I'm just curious is all, my mother and stepfather are firm believers.
It is not unusual for contrails to spread and merge so that they cover a good portion of the sky with a filmy veil of ice crystals.
Sometimes the moisture and ice nuclei injected into the air by the jet engines can support the formation of natural cirrus, even if contrails didnt form initially, provided that a gentle uplift causes enough cooling for clouds to form.
I'm not sure how many people have looked at the video that Zandy posted, but I get a slight impression that the discussion is straying from it a bit.
It's a matter of how the 4 engines' distinct (and "fluffy") contrails quickly merge into 2 distinct sharp contrails in such a short distance behind the plane.
It does look quite strange to me, but I rarely see low flying 4 engine craft around here, so I'm not quite sure if it's common or not.
I jumped out with a possible explaination of what I think is going on, I was hoping for some confirmation.
Last edited by Bobbar; 2010-Mar-19 at 01:14 PM. Reason: Added another wiki link.
Never heard of chemtrails before. How is this supposed to affect our minds?
Emma [URL removed]
Not every 'chemtrail' proponent believes that their purpose is to affect our minds. Otherwise, I've heard arguments that 'chemtrails' contribute to Alzheimer's, or that the chemicals make us more susceptible to subliminal messages carried by various media, and/or that the 'chemtrails' are a vehicle for propagating mind-control signals generated by the HAARP apparatus and/or cell phone towers, etc. Rather fantastic stuff without any basis in reality.
Besides, causing Alzheimers is a way to supress (control) someones mind.
Sorry, I wasn't as clear as I could have been there. What I tried to say is that I've heard some believers argue that 'chemtrails' serve purposes other than for mind control; weather control, eavesdropping, real-time modification of data transmissions, etc. The otherwise part was an enumeration of purposes which I've heard that weren't part of the first group. In other words, mind control.
Regarding the Alzheimer's claim; I think that there are studies which show a correlation between elevated levels of aluminum in the body and the disease. Chemtrail believers assume this means "cause" or, at the very least, "contributing factor." They go on to claim, without foundation, that chemtrails contain some amount of aluminum. Therefore, the TPTB are giving us Alzheimer's, or making it worse.
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My grandfather was a pilot, and he said that Chemtrails were a reality. Also I have seen other credible people such as pilots, flight engineers, and chemists claim the same. I don't think its a theory but a conspiracy fact. JPO.
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Interesting. Who? Where? When? The first set of questions also applies. What do they do, and how do they (the chem-trails) do it?Also I have seen other credible people such as pilots, flight engineers, and chemists claim the same.
Based on what evidence?I don't think its a theory but a conspiracy fact. JPO.
Look. Any regular Joe can go to an airport and pick up a sample of jet fuel to do with as he pleases. Nothing is stopping anybody from doing all the testing necessary to determine the exact composition of the fuel and what its affects might be.
*EDIT: If you can't answer these questions, how can you be sure that what you believe is actually a reality?
Last edited by Bobbar; 2010-Apr-13 at 02:24 PM. Reason: one more ?
famous chart to act as a rough field guide to the likelihood of persistent, spreading, contrails in 1953)
In what context did your Grandfather mention chemtrails? And what did he think they were for?
Maybe he used the term in reference to something like cloud seeding (which again has been going on for decades (the WMA was set up in 1950) and is a totally different subject - though it might be argued that, whilst not visible from the ground, such activity does indeed produce 'chemical trails')
Anonymous expertise. What was his name? What aircraft did he fly? What air carrier did he fly for? What dates?
...and he said that Chemtrails were a reality.
A real what? What exactly do you mean by "chemtrail?" What evidence does your grandfather the pilot offer that "chemtrails" occur and are what you or he says they are?
Also I have seen other credible people such as pilots, flight engineers, and chemists claim the same.
And their names are...? And the evidence they present is...?
I don't think its a theory but a conspiracy fact. JPO.
Then you should be able to produce something more convincing than handwaving.
The Idaho Observer has reported findings of 26 metals including barium, aluminum and uranium, a variety of infectious pathogens and chemicals and drugs including sedatives in chemtrail fallout.
Dr. R. Michael Castle - "In this century, we believe we are witnessing the gradual, purposeful demise of the Earth’s Natural System. "ChemTrails," the visible toxic-chemical-containing exhaust from airplanes [and auxiliary sprayers], is only a vague description, in lay-terms, of a greater theater of toxic materials being released into the atmosphere/stratosphere, for a myriad of crude and toxic agendas.
This article will attempt to put this global debacle into a profile of events. Technical specificity of all the identified components would require at least a book in length, to recite them all." - So, I suggest you consult google in finding this article. I have no intention of filling this post with bunch of articles and study papers, just so I can "prove my point".
What my grandfather said being confirmed here:
Dr. Edward Teller wrote a white paper in the late 1990s describing a remedial operational strategy, epic-in-proportion, to change the predicted course of what was believed by an international group of scientists, including Dr. Teller and Livermore National Laboratories, to be the inevitably cataclysmic results of global-warming (?), crisis level Ultra-Violet/Cosmic radiation, crisis Ozone layer depletion and other theoretical doom. It should be noted that Dr. Teller, "Father H-Bomb," was responsible for many ill-conceived strategies; not one of which considered consequences such as safety, toxicity, lethality, environmental impact or ethics.
Drs. Staninger and researcher Jan Smith have reported findings of self-replicating nano-machines
I have personal experience with chemtrails too.
How do we define reality? With our limited five senses. One of my five senses was severely damaged during a flyby on October 11th 2008, 1am by a black jet. I don't care if you don't believe me, It's enough that I went through to know that this is real.
^ ^ Ordinary, simple, contrail
^ ^ What I believe is chemtrails. The X & O-shape patterns are pretty common. The checkered pattern is also something very often seen.
I personally think they lied to him. If that's the case, then how will they preserve humanity with these chemicals that are extremely dangerous to human health? I mean language it, barium salts!?
But I expected a bit of brainwashing done in the military, they are very good at that anyway. So they inform their soldiers on what they want them to think the operation is about.
And they say I'm the one who defies logic by supporting conspiracies...
I think I have said this before, and I'm gonna say it again: I'm not here to convince anyone in my own personal experience, and with the little information that I have. I'm not here to shove my opinions down on people's throats. I came here to this thread to share an opinion, nothing more, nothing less. You are free to think whatever you want with the bits of info that I provided. I'm not here to prove anything.
Last edited by pzkpfw; 2010-Apr-14 at 09:31 PM. Reason: Language
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