What Is Needed To Make An Intelligent Species?

[Plat]

Suppose on one planet all the ingredients neccessary for life is available, as we know it will evolve but what are the chances of it evolving into an intelligent species (like us), do you just give it time and let time do its thing or do you need some other special ingredient?

[Enzp]

How can anyone answer that other than to state the way we would like the universe to work?

Why do we "know" life will evolve just because it did here? All we know of life is this one example we live on. I would imagine life exists elsewhere, but that is only a surmise.

Even if life exists out there, there is no necessity for it to become intelligent. This Earth was teeming with life for billions of years without it getting intelligent - as far as we can determine. Life seemed to have come from the sea. What is smart out there? Sea mammals like whales and dolphins are intelligent, but they evolved on land and later moved to the sea. Octopuses are pretty smart I guess. Any other candidates native to the sea. If you start with a water covered planet, sea is what you get.

Once life found land, it still wasn't very smart for a long long time. I see no reason that intelligence would be inevitable. But now that we have it, we need to decide what intelligence is.

In humans, I think of smart as a combination of three things - intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. Two out of three ain't smart, you need the whole package. But other critters? CHimps and apes are pretty smart in their way, and elephants are really pretty smart too. How much knowledge and wisdom they have is debatable, but they are off to a good start. CHimps seem to be on the similar path to ours, so absent humans and a million years, we might have something in teh ball park. Not sure why elephants would start building cities though.

But you want intelligence "like us" so that means that the smart beings must be technological. That adds a whole dimension to things. I cannot see dolphins turning to technology in a forseeable world. In a few million years and absent humans, might they crawl out on shore and return to land, and a few millioon more years develop technology? ANything is possible. What might the evolutionary pressures for that be? DOlphins might split into groups that prefer the shorelines and groups that like the deep oceans. And the shallow guys might get more and more evolved with the edge of the sea. But that would mean there was some evolutionary advantage to doing so. Evolution happens in response to the environment, not in hopes of one.

I don't see it as inevitable that even intelligent creatures would turn to technology. A well placed tsunami or volcano in our past could have turned us a different way.

So if if if if if ... and we still have no meaningful answer.

Do I personally think there is life out there? Yes. DO I think there is some middle aged creature on the Romulan internet waxing fanciful? I am a lot less positive about that. If I had visited Earth a billion years ago would I look around and think the development of something like mankind was a given? Certainly not.

[eburacum45]

The environmental change which caused the development of human intelligence seems to have been the loss of forest cover in the Central African region; the forest dwelling Australopithecines were forced to adapt to a lifesyle suited to grassland, and became upright bipeds able to carry tools and food. Other changes in the hominid physiology conspired together to produce a species of communicative social apes- the genus Homo.

However this sort of environmental change is nothing unusual;forests have changed to savanna many times in the history of the Earth, and this has not caused the emergence of higher intelligence. I think it was probably a complete fluke, developing out of the gradual increase in the communication abilities of the hominoid lineage. Probably sexual selection pressure started to select for improved language ability; the entire phenomenon of human higher consciousness, self-awareness and cognition has emerged from an overdeveloped language ability.

Indeed, I think this cognition based on language could emerge by chance in any sophisticated species throughout the galaxy; to develop this cognition ability into a technological civilisation probably need dextrous manipulative organs of some sort and a land-based, rather than water-based life style (although that may not be a universal rule).

[Disinfo Agent]

What Is Needed To Make An Intelligent Species?

And how are we supposed to know? :wink:

[dgavin]

It's hard to say what triggered the development of Homo-Saipiens brains.

What is intresting to note is that Dolphins brains developed along a very similar path.

Where as our brain is dedicated mostly to sight and touch, a Dolphins is dedicated to sound and sonar mapping. Other then that the two are almost the same size and shape.

So why can't we communicate with dolphins? The answere again lies in what our brains are processing. Most attempts were using visual methods, which dolphins have poor acuatey in. We've not been able to figure out thier language because of the outright complexity of the sounds, we don't hear all of them, nor all of the subtle variations.

So as there are two species with very similar brain structures on this planet alone, it's a safe bet that evolotion can design the same thing, for different reasons.

That being said, it does seem that brain power of that calibre is a niche thing. Instead of developing large bodies, or defensive shells, or other things of survival nature, larger brains were developed for comminication and tool use (lumping Dolphin Sonar in here as a tool).

So if intellegence was to arise on other worlds, it would also probably be a niche thing. What that niche would be who could say.

[Wally]

Here you go:

1) take an opposable thumb

2) add self awareness

3) stir in water

4) bake at 350 degrees for 20 minutes, or until inserted toothpick comes out clean.

[archman]

One of the more basic differentiations between "stupid" and "smart" animals is feeding mode. Active, selective, predators usually favor bigger brains and more smarts. Not a universal characteristic, but it works most of the time.

[Disinfo Agent]

Brains over beauty.
So, being smart is actually detrimental to one's survival? I always suspected as much...

[Ilya]

So, being smart is actually detrimental to one's survival?

Survival, no, but reproduction, quite possible.

[Jorge]

well, i think compitition is also needed.
for example the cold war. would we have all the technology we have today if it didn't happen?

[Plat]

So out of all the "alien life" out there, if they do exist, how many do you think would be intelligent?

[Plat]

Would it be correct to say that if you give "life" a long enough time to evolve, maybe thousands even millions of years, that it has a good chance of becoming intelligent?

And of course evolution to technological species is not a given but given enough time on a planet that has all the ingredients, there is a very good chance that something might happen

[archman]

Would it be correct to say that if you give "life" a long enough time to evolve, maybe thousands even millions of years, that it has a good chance of becoming intelligent?

Only if there are selective presures to favor greater intelligence. A great many of the Paleozoic groups are still around, happy as before. They've had little desire to evolve into "better" forms. Which really is rather disappointing,as I've always thought a "killer sponge" would make for a great horror movie.

[Maddad]

If you examine intelligence from a Darwinian perspective, then you would expect that intelligence increases the number of offspring that survive to sexual maturity. If you can show that intelligent behavior confers such an advantage, then you have a mechanism that should produce intelligence, human or other.

This Earth was teeming with life for billions of years without it getting intelligent - as far as we can determine.

Do we in fact know this? Do we actually know that brain capacity was not increasing during the last 500 million years? I sure don't know the answer to that, but it's an interesting enough question to research.

The environmental change which caused the development of human intelligence seems to have been the loss of forest cover in the Central African region; the forest dwelling Australopithecines were forced to adapt to a lifesyle suited to grassland, and became upright bipeds able to carry tools and food.

Becoming upright freed the hands for tasks other than locomotion which was probably a piece of the human intelligence puzzle.

[Ilya]

This Earth was teeming with life for billions of years without it getting intelligent - as far as we can determine.

Do we in fact know this? Do we actually know that brain capacity was not increasing during the last 500 million years? I sure don't know the answer to that, but it's an interesting enough question to research.

To the best of my knowledge, brain capacity HAS NOT been increasing, except for a few very small animal groups, and not all continuously. One, of course, is mammals -- their brain capacity increased quite rapidly as mammals speciated after death of dinosaurs, then increased again in Carnivora and Primata as those orders developed. The other is smallish carnivorous dinosaurs, such as Velociraptor and Nanotyrannos. Their brain capacity increased rapidly toward then end of Cretaceous -- in fact, about as rapidly that of carnivorous mammals and primates later.

All in all, it was never a universal trend.

[Ilya]

Would it be correct to say that if you give "life" a long enough time to evolve, maybe thousands even millions of years, that it has a good chance of becoming intelligent?

If I had an answer to that question, I'd be famous

All I can give is an educated guess -- and it is no, the chances of intelligence developing during a biosphere's lifetime are very low. Well below 1%, more like 0.001%.

[Plat]

Then it is unlikely

EDIT: But it did happen, intelligence DID emerge on this planet, why are we assuming that it is not likely to happen again if it already happened on one life-bearing planet, why do people like to think we are special or something?

[David Mc]

You're right. The absolute reality is that this planet has life.
The other absolute reality is that, so far, it's the only one.

[Plat]

Yeah but that also doesnt mean were the only ones around

[Plat]

Even if it is a billion-to-one odds, there are billions of stars in the galaxy so that would be one hundred civilizations at any given time and then times that by the galaxies and that would be in the millions range at any one time....its still rare though but there are so many stars that there are still MANY of them

[archman]

Don't anyone forget the invertebrates. They've had progressions of their nervous systems over the last few hundred million years, same as the vertebrates. The development of compact, stellate ganglia is significantly superior to the old linear type in terms of "smarts". True brachyuran-type crabs possess the stellate ganglia, and this has contributed a great deal to their recent evolutionary success. Spend some time with a blue crab, and you'll see... if it doesn't chase you out of the lab. That's always a good time.

And then there's the cephalopods, who have larger brains than fishes (on a pound for pound basis). Ceph brains are pretty dang weird... it's more of a ring surrounding the esophagus, with a couple of large compact ganglia. The whole shabang sorta looks like an hourglass. Octopi at the least are smart enough to learn problem solving indirectly... that is, they WATCH one octopus solve a problem, and then they can figure it out all by themselves. Actually Cousteau did some of this work, one of his few projects that directly contributed to marine biology.

And the cephalopods have a REALLY long evolutionary history... makes you wonder just how smart a paleozoic nautilus or ammonite could have been.

Hmm... I think I'll make my class dissect their squids' brains this semester. Dang you Bad Astronomy board!

[JimRainor]

Suppose on one planet all the ingredients neccessary for life is available, as we know it will evolve but what are the chances of it evolving into an intelligent species (like us), do you just give it time and let time do its thing or do you need some other special ingredient?

Yes, MONEY!

[David Mc]

Even if it is a billion-to-one odds, there are billions of stars in the galaxy so that would be one hundred civilizations at any given time and then times that by the galaxies and that would be in the millions range at any one time....its still rare though but there are so many stars that there are still MANY of them

It's depressing to consider, but the mathmatical argument for the improbability of life on Earth works in reverse for life elsewhere. Despite the improbability, we might be the only ones anyway. Either way, we make the "Special" list just by being one known planet with life.

I'm sorry for having only a vague offering, but on a radio program I heard someone mention that one of our probes had transported a bacteria to another planet or moon in our solar system. (you can tell I did't perk up to the conversation until they mentioned the bacteria).

That's a pretty exciting event, if it happened. If bacteria can survive a trip through space unprotected, life could be "seeded" anywhere just waiting for the conditions to develope.

[Raptor1967]

I could be wrong here but inteligence emerged a few times in our history. Modern man is the last of a select few sapiens that developed on this planet. If I am not mistaken these other breeds simply didn't develope fast enough to deal with modern humans dominance over the enviroment. We bred them or starved them into extinction.

[TravisM]

:-? Are we certain it's come up even once?

[mutant]

I would imagine you could use just about anything but human DNA........ #-o

[David Mc]

:-? Are we certain it's come up even once?

You say so much with so few words. That's impressive.

Here's a question for the crew.
CAN intelligence evolve? Could intelligence be a natural force of the Universe like gravity or radiation?

One puzzle (to me) of evolving intelligence is the first male/female pair. They only get one shot. Just recognizing what another gender is and doing what's needed to generate offspring is a challenge.

[Plat]

My point is that I really dont think intelligence is as rare as some people make it out to be, natural selection favours intelligence.

[archman]

My point is that I really dont think intelligence is as rare as some people make it out to be, natural selection favours intelligence.

Except for all the times where natural selection doesn't. There's a pretty long list of critters that have selected against smarts in order to favor their overall fitness.

The nervous system gets the evolutionary pruning just like any other organ system, if there's little advantage in having it.

[Enzp]

There are how many species on Earth? And how many of them have evolved the sort of intelligence you are seeking? Only one that I know of.

By the way, the Neanderthals had larger brains than we do.

While it is an appealing romantic notion that life is all over, we simply do not know. And coulda, oughta, probably doesn't help. That there is life here has zero impact on the likelihood of it elsewhere. The fact that we are here does not make it any less unlikely elsewhere. If life is a one in a billion deal, and we encounter that one example in a billion, it remains a one in a billion. All we can say for sure is that life is possible. It doesn't mean we are the only ones, but it doesn't mean that we are not either.

Raptor1967, I think that the other hominids were not here at the same time as modern man, so we cannot assume modern man out competed them. And insofar as the intent of Platinum's thread, none of them developed such things as technology beyond stone tools.