Announcing new BABB team for Einstein@Home

[Ken Vogt]

Hello all,

We have started a BABB team for the distributed computing project Einstein@Home.

Einstein@home is a program that uses your computer's idle time to search for spinning neutron stars (also called pulsars) using data from the LIGO and GEO gravitational wave detectors. Einstein@home is a World Year of Physics 2005 project ...

The BABB team has been very successful, ranking in the Top 40 out of over 2200 teams. (See sig for current place.)

Don't ever feel you have to read this whole long thread! In fact, the discussion is now going on in Klausnh's thread, over in General Astronomy.

Currently, that's a shorter thread than this one, but no need to read it first either; just post any questions there, before or after joining the team; no need to search first. Team members are friendly and will answer your questions in a flame-free manner.

To join the project, visit the E@H Getting Started page, or just use the two links below:

It's easy to participate in Einstein@Home:

* Create an account. Go to the Create account page and fill out the form. You will receive an email containing your account ID (a long random string). Save this email.

* Download and install BOINC: Go to the download page, download the BOINC software for your type of computer, install it, and run it. You will be asked to enter the project URL (http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/) and your account ID.

That's it!

The phrase "You will be asked..." above means "In the BOINC Manager program, click the Projects tab and click Attach to new project... and then enter URL and ID." But it's still really easy.

It's probably best not to select BOINC as your default screensaver at the installation. E@H's 3-D graphics do not play nice with BOINC; especially with ATI graphics cards.

After you are running and crunching, join the BABB team here; just click "Join."

You can go to the Your Account link on the E@H homepage to set up your preferences, but the defaults usually work fine.

There are a lot of add-ons, stat sites, and forums connected with the BOINC and Einstein@Home projects, so if you ever have any questions, especially about the BABB team, it's much easier just to post in Klausnh's thread -- that's what it is for.

Thanks to the Bad Astronomer for tolerating, and indeed participating in, this project; to Quantum_Raider who was the first to post on the BABB forums about E@H; to Klausnh for kickstarting us; and to everyone who helped the team and to all those who have already, or will soon, join this stellar project. =D>

Color text are quotes from Einstein@Home; this whole page heavily edited multiple times.

[mid]

I was running Climateprediction.net's client a while back, before I had to stop - it caused too many problems on my machine, as it gobbled memory for breakfast. I never actually ran it long enough to return a work unit even, despite sticking with it for a month or so, either. Is this much better? Seti@home never used to be much of a problem.

[Tensor]

hehehehehe, I joined last night Ken.

[tlbs101]

I just joined the BABB team, also.

[Andromeda321]

So did I! 8)

[zebo-the-fat]

Can I run this and SETI at the same time?

[The Bad Astronomer]

Great. So if someone from this board actually does detect a gravitational wave, it'll be tagged as Bad Astronomy?

[gethen]

I was kind of saving my home computer for my son's galactic cluster search sometime in the future, but this looks pretty worthwhile in the meantime. I'll give it a look.

[aurora]

I joined, but I assume the team stats will not get updated until the next time my PC uploads a completed file?

[Wolverine]

I'm in too.

[tmosher]

I can't even get them to send me the account activation codes. I think that verizon's email system blocks them.

[Quantum_Raider]

I've signed up

It's now running along side SETI & UD

[Ken Vogt]

Great. So if someone from this board actually does detect a gravitational wave, it'll be tagged as Bad Astronomy?

We sneakily crafted the name (BABB) so this board gets the credit, that is, looks bad, not you! . But if people do consider it as good astronomy, we'll be sure you get the credit. <sucking up noise> And I think LIGO will get credit for the gravity wave; we're just looking for pulsars in their data. Could be wrong there, but either way it's real science: real bad science. :wink:

aurora---

By now I see you are in the list and reporting WUs!

Actually on my box BOINC (under Windows) does a strange thing --- when it finishes a WU, it uploads the data, but does not report it to the server for credit until you issue the update command, which, unhelpfully, is not on the main menu. You have to click the "Projects" tab, Right-click "Einstein@Home" & click update. The "Messages" tab will then show a couple lines ending "Scheduler RPC.... succeeded," that tells you credit has been applied for.

There still are delays until the WU is confirmed, as described in the E@H "Getting Started" page, and even more delays until the team data gets posted. All typical for Distributed Computing Projects.

However, your credit is automatically uploaded the next time BOINC downloads a fresh WU, so there is no need actually to do the above update process if you set preferences to keep no more than 2 WUs on your machine. For example, my WUs take about 10 hours, and I have the General Preference "Connect to network about every ..." set to .3 days. This fetches one new WU about an hour after the latest-but-one is uploaded, and so credit is updated pretty quickly.

But this setting is touchy, I tried a .1 day connect & it download 6 or 7 WUs at once, meaning it would not report automatically again until almost all 6 were done.

Of course, if you're on dial-up, you want a large number of WU's on your box, so you won't run out while off line, so you'll probably want to do the Update routine every time you dial in.

Sorry so complicated.


zebo-the fat---

Can I run this and SETI at the same time?

If you're running classic SETI (the non-BOINC version) I think you can, but both programs must compete for your spare processor time, and there can be problems. But seti has a version for BOINC (indeed they will soon move all seti to BOINC,) and running 2 or more projects at once is what BOINC is made for.

Just do the steps outlined in the first post: download boinc, attach Einstein@Home. Then got to the BOINC main page, http://boinc.berkeley.edu/ , and click on the setii@home project. Then you activate or create an account just like for E@H and attach seti to Boinc similarly. Then go to the project Preferences page for either E@H or seti and set the "Resource share" you want for it. If you set, say 75 for E@H, seti will automatically get 25%.

Then in your Boinc client issue the update command as in the reply to aurora (right-clicking on the project where you just set the resource share) and your updated preferences should be applied.

Whew, Sorry so complicated, again.

mid---

I was running Climateprediction.net's client a while back, before I had to stop - it caused too many problems on my machine, as it gobbled memory for breakfast. I never actually ran it long enough to return a work unit even, despite sticking with it for a month or so, either. Is this much better? Seti@home never used to be much of a problem.

I too ran Climate Prediction for a time, and work units took IIRC, 3 months. These E@H WUs take, like I say 10 hours on my 2.4Ghz box, so much quicker; I've had no erroneous results or memory problems; though I'm probably not enough of an expert to know a leak if I saw it.

Incidentally, climateprediction.net is also now running under BOINC, so perhaps it is more stable now, but even sharing 50% with E@H their WUs would take a long time for sure. But I think they do dole out credit proportionally to time worked on all projects, so you don't have to wait for a CPDN WU to finish to be rewarded.


Many thanks to you above and also to Tensor, tlbs101,
Andromeda321, and our other members for joining and everyone else for listening to me rattle on. Let me know what needs clarification.

Edit: Thanks also to Wolverine and Quantum_Raider, who posted as I was typing this.

I can't even get them to send me the account activation codes. I think that verizon's email system blocks them.

Does Verizon have a white list you can put their address on? I'll try to post over on the E@H board and see if they have a solution. May be a day or two..

[end edit]

We are up to # 609 now, up from 700 something yesterday. As explained in Quantum_Raider's post linked above, you can use the url http://einstein.phys.uwm.edu/top_tea...amp;offset=600 , to see where we stand, suitably changing the 600 (in steps of 20) as we move ever upward. It appears my sig might eventually show the proper rank as well.

[EvilBob]

I've joined! It worked fine initially, but after rebooting, I can't get it to reconnect. I'm behind a proxy server, but the proxy server settings are all greyed out. I am using the version 4.23 recommended for http servers.... Anyone got any ideas?

:-k

[EvilBob]

Never mind. Another reboot and it's working again... who knows?

[tmosher]

Anyone have a average elapsed time for execution of one set of data?

I think I've been cursed by AMD and it's slow performance (i.e., it took twice as long to process SETI packets as an equivalent Intel processor).

So far...roughly one hour for 9% completion. I'll leave it alone overnight and see how long it takes.

[mickal555]

OK I'm joining....
You mentioned somthing about a

I don't have web space, so there won't be a team website; no great loss?

I can make a team website if you like. I got some space.

[Fram]

I joined the project and the Babb team! No work done yet though, I hope it works out allright.

[Ken Vogt]

I can make a team website if you like. I got some space.

That'd be great! I have no clue about web design, or even truth to tell, what to put on it. By the time people get to the E@H BABB team page, they probably have alredy joined E@H and so most installation questions would be moot, and they're right next to the "Join" button, so they don't need help with that either.

But we could put in some more explanation about Bad Astronomy & this forum; why it's not really bad, etc. And if you or someone knows how to mine XML, you could maybe have the current team position and nearest competitors automatically listed, though I'm sure with all the stats sites out there this has been done. Maybe a map with members' locations (this is public on the team page.)

So anyway, having pushed all the burden off on you, if you're still willing, go for it! Just post here with the url when it's up and I'll add it to the team page.

Anyone have a average elapsed time for execution of one set of data?

I think I've been cursed by AMD and it's slow performance (i.e., it took twice as long to process SETI packets as an equivalent Intel processor).

So far...roughly one hour for 9% completion. I'll leave it alone overnight and see how long it takes.

Glad you got it running! My box is an Intel at 2.4Ghz, with a tiny overclocking to 2.483 Ghz, when it's not busy, E@H gets 97-98% of processor time, and my WUs take between 9.5 and 10 hours, so one hour for 9% completion sounds about right. Course it depends on the rated speed of your box and the conversion between how AMD measures a Ghz and how Intel does. All of which is beyond me.

As it happens, I did post over at E@H about maybe Verizon blocking their email, and got this reply from Bruce Allen, modestly described as

Forum moderator
Project administrator
Project developer
Project scientist

I've asked our Network people to contact Verizon and ask to have einstein white-listed. This may take a day or so.

Cheers,
Bruce

It's great to have that kind of quick service from the top. <thumbs up>


Welcome to the team Fram and EvilBob .

We're up to #563 ( in sig!) now, with 16 members.

This will only mean something to those who read the E@H thread over on GA, but that's as many members as Team Art Bell, though still behind them on total credit.

I've corrected the team page to say that BABB is "International," this was my oversight in accepting the default which is, as always, USA. ops:

[mid]

Thanks Ken - I'll get this set up at home soon, then. 10 hours sounds far more sensible for a work unit.

However, I switch off my home box when it's not doing anything, and most of what it does do while turned on is gobble CPU like it's going out of fashion (renders, a/v encoding, games) so how much they'll get from me is another question.

[mickal555]

Should I use the BABB logo?

I don't thinkI should Cause I think its copyright, I think I'll wait to see what the BA has to say on the idea, cause BABB is his thing, and I dunno, cause he said somthing about not using the Bad astronomy name to make a military.....

But yeah if all's clear I'll do it
I'll put it as a page for my main site, and have a direct navigation link to it on my navigation bar. Mabee that will draw more members?

[Ken Vogt]

Should I use the BABB logo?

I agree we definitely shouldn't. I hate to bother the BA (me, writing to a real working astronomer!) but I'll try to get up the courage to send him a PM about logos.

[mickal555]

Should I use the BABB logo?

I agree we definitely shouldn't. I hate to bother the BA (me, writing to a real working astronomer!) but I'll try to get up the courage to send him a PM about logos.

I'm woundering even about the BABB name.....

I've never sent a pm to the BA.... (I too don't want to bother him)
I remember when I first saw him in paltalk.....
I was so starstuck, he even said my name!
8)

[zebo-the-fat]

I tried to move my "old" seti to ths BOINC system but they have a problem with their database and nothing is working yet

[Ken Vogt]

Hello again,

Thanks Ken - I'll get this set up at home soon, then. 10 hours sounds far more sensible for a work unit.

However, I switch off my home box when it's not doing anything, and most of what it does do while turned on is gobble CPU like it's going out of fashion (renders, a/v encoding, games) so how much they'll get from me is another question.

The one thing you might watch with such a set up is the report deadline (next to last field in the "Work" tab.) WUs need to be done in about 7 days to count. Ones DLed today for me have a deadline of 3 March. Hope it works out.

I tried to move my "old" seti to ths BOINC system but they have a problem with their database and nothing is working yet

I can't help with that, but it is one problem BOINC will have to resolve, as they plan eventually to move all of Seti to BOINC.

Meantime, Quantum_Raider reports that he has classic seti and BOINC coexisting:

I've signed up

It's now running along side SETI & UD

Quite how he manages the resource share I don't know, but it's great it can be done.

I'm wondering even about the BABB name.....

You're a bit prescient, mickal555. As it happens the BA's reply to my PM indicated he was in fact OK with the BABB name and the idea of the team, and supports Einstein@Home, though he quite rightly noted I should have asked his approval beforehand. This was my ba..., I mean, it was entirely my fault. ops: #-o

As far as the website goes, whenever you get a prototype up, and before you link to it in any way, PM the url to me and/or the BA so he can check it out.

Thinking out loud again, since this site would be for team members, who are already likely heavy users of this board, maybe it doesn't need to promote or explain the Bad Astronomy idea, contrary to what I said above. All it needs to be is a site for team info that members can't get here, or once this thread drops off. But again, that's up to you, subject to BA approval.

On a positive note, E@H has revamped its message board, here. It's not phbBB, but there are now logical sections, including the very chic Cafe Einstein.

[aurora]

We're up to #563 ( in sig!) now, with 16 members.

As of a few minutes ago, we had jumped all the way up to #411!

And since we have more members than the teams just ahead of us, I expect we'll move up quite a few more places in the next few days.

Paul

[Nicolas]

I joined! I might still need to tweak things in order to get it to work more than now (processor usage).

[George]

Now 18 members strong.

[tmosher]

I can't even get them to send me the account activation codes. I think that verizon's email system blocks them.

Does Verizon have a white list you can put their address on? I'll try to post over on the E@H board and see if they have a solution. May be a day or two..

Verizon finally let the email through - it had Sunday's date on it - a four day delay.

However, I signed up through my other email address and joined the BABB group. Now I just have to see why it is taking so long to process.

10 hours = 10%???

[Quantum_Raider]

Meantime, Quantum_Raider reports that he has classic seti and BOINC coexisting:

I've signed up

It's now running along side SETI & UD

Quite how he manages the resource share I don't know, but it's great it can be done.

On that machine I think it's a Cellery 2.8 and around 6-700meg ddr ram, it seems to crunch through the data fine (at least it hasn't done anything dramatic or showy yet ... like blowup).