Astronomers : Backyard Radio Astronomers ?

[Launch window]

Just looking around the web & I've been checking out some stuff on the net and saw some topics on Radio Astronomy mentioned on other websites.
Does anyone know any people who have done it ? understand the equipment needed ? and how many people here have worked with radio ?
I've seen some nebula and planets mentioned in radio astronomy. Can you pick up data on the Orion Nebula, meteorite showers....is it possible to get equipment to bounce signals against the Moon, collect data from Jupite, getting signals from Quasars or Radio Galaxies... ? It seems like there is a huge bulk of stuff you can do with radio but

Is it possible to do this kind of stuff from your backyard ?

[Lisa]

That kind of stuff is pretty expensive for us "backyard astronomers".
Those of us with a telescope and a thermos of coffee can dispute the sillier claims.
If you'd like me to list them, I will. Since I have a scope, I've been asked some pretty silly questions.
Some would think "Is the FOX" show true? No, that isn't silly or stupid, merely lacking information.
Many people come forth with tales of "flying saucers". There are thousands of us out every night. Whether we're looking through our scopes, or just merely (in my case) kicking back in the hot tub, we've never managed to see one.
Anything weird I've seen, I've looked up at heavensabove.com and the mystery was solved. (one night I saw something zipping past, and it was the ISS, right on schedule)

[ToSeek]

You can always ask the Society of Amateur Radio Astronomers.

[Fram]

one night I saw something zipping past, and it was the ISS, right on schedule

Sorry, couldn't help thinking: "due to a slight technical error, the ISS tonight has a delay of approximately half an hour. Thanks for waiting!"

[R.A.F.]

Does anyone know any people who have done it ?

I recall reading somewhere about someone who had a "backyard" setup. He used surplus equipment, and it cost him a "bit"...but, yes, it can be done...just don't ask me any details.

Sorry for the "vagueness" of this post. ops:

[Tensor]

Just looking around the web & I've been checking out some stuff on the net and saw some topics on Radio Astronomy mentioned on other websites.
Does anyone know any people who have done it ? understand the equipment needed ? and how many people here have worked with radio ?
I've seen some nebula and planets mentioned in radio astronomy. Can you pick up data on the Orion Nebula, meteorite showers....is it possible to get equipment to bounce signals against the Moon, collect data from Jupite, getting signals from Quasars or Radio Galaxies... ? It seems like there is a huge bulk of stuff you can do with radio but

Is it possible to do this kind of stuff from your backyard ?

How about Grote Reber? He started it all and started it in his backyard.

[frogesque]

One area of growing interest is radio detection of meteors.

Observations using simple amateur equipment page might interest you.

[zebo-the-fat]

I have heard amateur radio signals bounced off the ionised trails of meteors ... weird! You just keep transmitting "up" then a random meteor passes in the right place and time then for a few seconds you hear the reflected signal.
Because the reflection is usualy at very high altitude you can bounce a VHF or UHF signal over the horizon (normaly you are limited to line of site)

[Launch window]

I have heard amateur radio signals bounced off the ionised trails of meteors ... weird! You just keep transmitting "up" then a random meteor passes in the right place and time then for a few seconds you hear the reflected signal.
Because the reflection is usualy at very high altitude you can bounce a VHF or UHF signal over the horizon (normaly you are limited to line of site)

that's cool picking up ionised noise from meteors... =D>
some very nice links frogesque, ToSeek and Tensor

what about the other radio stuff like SETI, is that way beyond the ability of a backyard astronomer ?

[Andromeda321]

I once used a little radio dish (the size of a TV satellite dish) that was converted to a radio telescope to collect data about galactic rotation based on the hydrogen alpha line. Eventually used the data to make a plot showing evidence for dark matter in our galaxy, so that was pretty nifty!
The radio telescope was, if I recall correctly, originally put together by a very dedicated amateur who then donated it to a local university or some such. I used it through the university one night.

[zebo-the-fat]

that's cool picking up ionised noise from meteors...

It wasn't noise we picked up, the idea was to send a high speed signal (usualy as morse code on a tape loop) over and over again. When a meteor passed over, the signal was reflected and the information received at the receiving end of the path.

[Gerbil94]

I think it's a similar situation to amateur optical work. You can pay a lot of money for ready-constructed equipment that'll do what you want, or you can spend time acquiring the knowledge (optics for one, electronic engineering for t'other) and build the equipment yourself but for a much lower (monetary) cost, roughly a few hundred pounds for a really simple low-frequency interferometer. However, please note these problems if you go the build-it-yourself route:

* The test equipment will likely cost you more than the telescope itself, unless you have the necessary stuff already.

* Your chances of success, and the time required for construction, depend heavily on your knowledge and experience in electronics, especially knowledge of radio frequency electronics.

* The amateur radio astronomy field is far smaller than the amateur optical field. Sources of help are less widespread as a result. Associations like SARA and SETI can help, but only up to a point.

With a simple interferometer you can expect to detect the Sun, the radio source at the centre of our galaxy (Sagittarius A), the supernova remnants in Cass. and Cyg. (two of the brightest radio sources in the sky) and a few other sources. A dedicated instrument would be needed to detect Jupiter's long-wavelength (tens of metres) radio emissions, and a single dish instrument could be used to do a sky survey. But you would need a good radio environment with minimal interference for the last two.

As far as I can see, an instrument for SETI is liable to be more expensive than an "astrophysical" telescope, but the path is perhaps better trodden with more available help; the SETI league provide this block diagram for the enthusiastic.

[frogesque]

As well as the comments made by Gerbil94, remember that for most radio astronomy you need a fair bit of real estate too. Even a simple 1/2wave dipole working at 21MHz ( apparently a good frequency to pick up Jupiter) will be 22.9 feet overall to which you will probably have to add another foot for insulated anchorage, more if you are using poles with stay supports.

Neighbours and local authorities can also get a bit snippy about aerials as well so do your homework first before spending on any kit.

[Manchurian Taikonaut]

here's a good thread

http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=19807

How do radio telescope rasterize images?

[DoktorGreg]

My analysis is that it is very doobable in the 1.5ghz spectrum (hydrogen gas) the equipment is easy, the structures you will be looking at are easy enough to see. That is, if your goal is something really humble like "Can I make a working radio telescope". If you are just starting out in the hobby fields, think of it as a long term goal, you have many specialized skills to master, unless you want to pay big money. Sheet metal fabrication, simple robotics, mastry in telescope building skills, mastery in all amerature astronomy skills, mastry in ham radio skills, Computer programming and big math.

Wow, its a huge project, an order of magnitude harder than an optical telescope. However, if you are successful, you can sleep at night knowing you are probably one of the most capable people to ever have existed. We are talking Wesley Crusher (the character not the guy) smart.

[Charlie in Dayton]

Radio astronomy can be boiled down to the extremely simple. I was an 'instructor' in an advanced-students class at the local Museum of Natural History. As such, I was available for technical advice on one student's project, which dealt with radio astronomy. Simply put, a cheapo Radio Shaft TV antenna was hooked to a portable FM receiver to listen to solar noise. The student proved it worked by finding the Sun via its radio noise on a heavily overcast day when the Sun was visually not discernible. Kinda cool...

[Launch window]

This guy has tuned in to Venus Express
http://www.uhf-satcom.com/vex/
from his backyard!

[Dave Mitsky]

I had the opportunity to use the 40 foot dish at the Green Bank NRAO last summer during the Green Bank Star Quest star party. It's a transit radio telescope that's used for teaching purposes. Even with some pretty sophisticated equipment (compared to most amateur radio telescopy) at hand, what we could do with the telescope was rather limited. It was possible to obtain a nice strip chart recording of Taurus A (otherwise known as M1 and the Crab Nebula), for instance, as it transited but I, for one, would much rather look at an object through an eyepiece than watch a pen move in response to its emitted radio waves.

http://www.astrosurf.org/lombry/radioastronomy-rt.htm

http://www.gb.nrao.edu/epo/forty.shtml

Dave Mitsky

[Fr. Wayne]

I took a copper tube 1/4 in. made it into a circle about 2 ft. diameter attached my shortwave insulated cable from one end of circle into the shortwave antennae contact. Placed a window screen under the copper circle approx.4-8 " (this can vary) and tuned my radio to 21MHz. The waves were hypnotic and easily heard. Also finding a blank area on your FM dial with pick up the "snaps" of meteors as well as stations beyond range whenever a plane goes overhead.

[trinitree88]

Here's a resource for amateur radio astronomy, and radio....
http://www.hobbyspace.com/Radio/radio2.html

[Launch window]

Suitsat-1 (also known in Russia as Radioskaf or Radio Sputnik) was stuffed with old clothes and carried a radio transmitter. The suit broadcast on amateur radio (also known as "ham radio") frequencies, which are above the FM broadcast band.
http://space.about.com/b/a/241420.htm

Suit-Sat Silent, Says Space Spokesman
http://cbs4.com/topstories/local_story_035144741.html

more here
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18888
Have space-suit, will broadcast

Amature Radio
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10774
http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=13289

[skywatch]

$2600.00 of "pretty expensive"

[vlfradio]

The problem with starting out in Radio Astronomy is, there's so little information around that's of any use; sure you have a huge number of web sites that show data, but try and find a full article on how-to build a receiver !! well, that's my experience to date; and since electronics is a career and interest that I do... my direction went down the, who produced books on the subject through posted articles on the web... anyway, it's a big commitment you take on along with the actual cost of learning, a long curve but, rewarding.

The bottom-line is, having found your radio astronomy reading matter, it takes some time to assimilate it all; the best way to go is decide on the signals or emissions you want to detect/receive; from my experience its best to start with Jupiter at 21.00 Megahertz, this is in the short-wave band so a good to moderate receiver might be usable, with SSB Single Sideband detection, in old money called CW; also a receiver is available in kit form if you have basic electronic skills to put it together... just put a search out for Jupiter project, NASA site will provide your first starting point.

[vorblesnak]

Here in Oregon I have seen old C Band satellite dishes for free. I often thought about getting one and just putting the antenna from a good shortwave radio at the focus for a bit of radio observing.

I think that would work.

David Davis
Toledo, OR 97391

[vlfradio]

It has been done before, but you need to consider the frequency input to the LNB... a Low Noise amp Block in the "C band at 5 Ghz" would be required, in the USA these were very common, but now with direct high power digital satellite home systems being used, it might not be that easy to find !!.

However, the unit at the dish may also have a converter too, with an output frequency at 70Mhz IF, based on a USA system... a receiver able to tune within this frequency will be required.

I make this assumption based on none Europian satellite systems; these are designed for an IF bandwidth frequency between 950 to 2250 Mhz... by using a communications receiver or scanner would do, but there are other problems, there always is !!; the receiver you use needs an "AGC" Automatic Gain Control switch, to turn off this function... plus the receiver needs to have AM output demodulation, that's "Amplitude Modulation" as used in the old low frequency broadcast receivers.

If you can find a receiver like this, then its very much a possibility to detect Solar emissions on a small size 6 foot dish... from 12 foot upwards your into Galactic sources, from there its bigger the dish the better; to go back to my opening statement regarding LNB types, if you only have just a Amp only feed there's a very simple way to detect emissions.

All you need is one or two in-line satellite signal meters, each one has a meter to provide a Dc voltage reading, a simple mod is to wire across the meter and feed this into any A to D converter, "Analog to Digital" into your computer, with a strip chart software programme, and your up and running.

In fact, you can down load a freeware programme from: radiosky.com/ stripchart programme, its basic but works very well; he even provides technical information on how to interface via the A to D, its all there with a litte time and basic electronics... if you decide to look into the idea, its worth investing in a book by: William Lonc, Radio Astronomy Projects; it covers a wide range of satellite related systems on the cheep, if you have junk-yard near you, then anything is possible.

Best Regards, Brian; Jersey Channel Islands.