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Thread: Calendar & time system for mars

  1. #1

    Calendar & time system for mars

    I've done a lot of math and have come up with a possible calendar with 36 martian-hours per day
    I'm keeping a second universal but altering the definition of a minute and an hour. it'll look somthing like this


    10 years per cycle or 2 semi-cycles per cycle, 5 years per semi cycle.

    669 days per high year, 3 high years per semi-cycle, 111 weeks in a high year

    months days: Monember 45, Duoly 44, Trinuary 45, Tetrember 44, Pentember 45, Shatember 44, September 45, High October 45, November 45, December 44, Undenuly 45, Dodecuary 44, Tredenember 45, Tetradecily 44, Quindecimber 45.

    668 days per low year, 2 low years per semi-cycle, 111⅓ weeks in a low year

    months days: Monember 45, Duoly 44, Trinuary 45, Tetrember 44, Pentember 45, Shatember 44, September 45, Low October 44, November 45, December 44, Undenuly 45, Dodecuary 44, Tredenember 45, Tetradecily 44, Quindecimber 45.


    82(s)=1(Mam)Martian minute. ?
    30(Mam)=1(Mah)Martian hour. ?
    36(Mah)=1(Mad)Martian day.
    6(Mad)=1(Maw)Martian week.
    44(Mad) or 45(Mad)=1(Mamo)Martian month.
    15(Mamo)=1(May)Martian year
    668(Mad)=1(Maly)Martian low year
    669(Mad)=1(Mahy)Martian high year

    but this remainder
    Remainder 82(s/md) /1(mm/md)

    with an earth day being 23 hours, 56 minutes and 4.1 seconds
    how do our clocks deal with the lost 3m55.9s per day or 23h56m0.5878s
    It's never midnight at noon. Is it? IS IT!!?



    should I try converting it to atomic time because that's all I got

    anybody have any ideas?



    MATH: Approximated

    Round 668.592(Mad)Up to 668.6(Mad)

    every 5(May) you have 3 extra (Mad) solution 3 high years 669(Mad), 2 low years 668(Mad)

    669(Mad)/15(Mamo)=44.6(Mad/Mamo)=44or45(Mad/Mamo)high October.
    668(Mad)/15(Mamo)=44.533333(Mad/Mamo)=44or45(Mad/Mamo)low October.

    669(Mad)/6(Mad)=111.5(Mamo)evenly divisible.
    668(Mad)/6(Mad)=111.33333(Mamo)evenly divisible.

    1(Mad)=24h39m35s. convert to seconds.
    (24h*60m*60s)+(39m*60s)+35s=88642s=1(Mad).

    88642s/36(Mah)=2462.277777(s/Mah)/30(Mam)=82.07592592593592592(s/Mam)/82s-
    1=0.000925925925925925(s remainder/s)

    88642s/36(Mah)/30(Mam)-82s=0.07592592592592592(s remainder/Mam)*30(Mam)=
    2.277777(s remainder/Mah)*36(Mah)=82.0000000000044444(s remainder/Mad)*6(Mad)
    492.0000000000264(s remainder/Maw)/6(Mad)*668(Mad)=
    54776.00000000293293293293293(s remainder/Maly)/60s/60m=
    15h12m56.000000002932(total remainder/Maly)*60m*60s/668(Mad)*669(Mad)=
    54858.00000000293691(s remainder/Mahy)/60s/60m=15h14m18.00000000294(total remainder/Mahy)


    Thanks for any input.

  2. #2
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    If you're going to keep the second, why make the other units of time so diverse?
    Maybe 19 five-week months with seven-day weeks and three or four epigomenal days per year that aren't in the weeks.
    Make each day be 24 Mars-hours, 60 minutes and 60 seconds.
    Keep another time unit for science which would be the Earth-second.
    Forming opinions as we speak

  3. #3
    In all the SiFi shows mars has a 36 hour day Seriously though 36 is my favorite number that's why I chose it.

    and you may be right about a new unit instead of seconds but I was thinking seconds are metric so it would be easier to convert.

    as I said atomic time is measured by the time it takes for an electron to jump from one atom to another. if you want more accurate info on atomic time
    go to http://www.howitworksdaily.com/scien...g-is-a-second/ to read the article.

  4. #4
    Still I would like to know how our time system deals with the 23h56m0.5878s loss loss, is it ever somehow midnight at noon at some point or do clocks actually take 23h56m4.1s to spin twice.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14leblanck View Post
    Still I would like to know how our time system deals with the 23h56m0.5878s loss loss, is it ever somehow midnight at noon at some point or do clocks actually take 23h56m4.1s to spin twice.
    I don't understand what the loss is.
    The measurement is from the point of view from Earth (a synodic day) and not it's orientation in the solar system (a sidereal day).

    The difference is because one adds the (percieved) additional rotation that is gained from an orbit around the sun.
    It's similar to what happened to Phileas Fogg. He took 81 days to travel the world, but others who didn't travel percieved it as 80.

  6. #6
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    Am I missing here something?
    A Mars day is just over 24 Earth hours, why would one want to have 36 hours suddenly?
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  7. #7
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    Kim Stanley Robinson in his Mars Trilogy already accounted for the extra 37m,??sec. He basically made this a "time slip" (basically a "leap 37mxxs" at or around midnight, at which all clocks cease. He chose it in order to keep the lengths of the second, minute, and hour consistent. I definitely agree with him about the timeslip concept, but not for stopping all clocks entirely. This is because even during the timeslip, time itself does not stop (i.e. Instead we should have a T-15m30s for "15m30s into the timeslip").

    Whatever inconvenience would come from the "leap time period" is more than offset by the remaining harmony with the standard time measurements. Likewise whatever convenience would come from harmonizing the minutes, hours, etc. to the Martian rotation and revolution period is more than offset by the sheer mass of confusion about translating Earth time units to Martian time units (sort of like the English Imperial and Metric). Put more simply, adding a "leap time period" some time around midnight to the Martian day is simply less messy.

  8. #8
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    In general I agree with the intercalary 37m (modern watches can have a secondary tiny display for that), but...

    marsmen are supposed to live in caves, and not in the open... air? (or lack thereof) so they may just not care about martian time... maybe it's more convenient for them just living synchronized with "universal" (earth) time...
    Last edited by Barabino; 2014-Apr-22 at 05:31 AM.

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    after all, people living beyond the arctic polar circles (be natives or scientists), DO NOT wake up for six months and sleep for six months... they live in the 24 hours like anybody else...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barabino View Post
    after all, people living beyond the arctic polar circles (be natives or scientists), DO NOT wake up for six months and sleep for six months...
    That is not how the polar circle works. The situation you are describing only occurs very close to the poles. At the polar circle you just get one 24 hour day during summer and one 24 h night during the winter.
    Last edited by glappkaeft; 2014-Apr-22 at 12:12 PM.

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    ...and polar summers and polar winters are six month long, right? :-)
    My english is not good enough, but I'm sure they don't have 24 hours of light followed by 24 hours of dark... they have 6 months of (dim) light and 6 months of dark... in the light time the sun goes up and down but is always visible (although low on the horizon)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Barabino View Post
    ...and polar summers and polar winters are six month long, right? :-)
    My english is not good enough, but I'm sure they don't have 24 hours of light followed by 24 hours of dark... they have 6 months of (dim) light and 6 months of dark... in the light time the sun goes up and down but is always visible (although low on the horizon)
    They? I assume you are talking about people above the circle and not just the ones at the poles.

    If you are within the Arctic or Antarctic circle, the sun will set nightly depending on how close you are to the pole. It's the number of days it will set that depends on your latitude.

    At the circle, it sets every night although stays below the horizon shorter and shorter as you head toward solstice. Only at solstice do you have a 24 hour day.
    As you move toward the pole, the amount that the sun dips below the horizon become "shallower" and shorter in time the higher the latitude.

    (of course that's the "perfect" world and the general case. Local conditions elevations and other nitpicky things like the size of the sun make it more complicated)

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    They? I assume you are talking about people above the circle and not just the ones at the poles.
    )
    I think you're over interpreting here. I think the point that Barabino was trying to make is simply that people don't simply sleep when it's dark, so for example people at high latitudes don't sleep 18 hours a night in the winter and six in the summer or whatever. So on Mars, people would presumably remain on a "human cycle, meaning approximately eight hours of sleep in a 24 hour period, and I generally agree because it's hard-wired to some extent genetically.
    As above, so below

  14. #14
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    And I am almost completely convinced that the human 24hr thing is completely environmental. Weren't there studies done forty years ago in caves, where natural cycles tended towards 26hr?

    But maybe I haven't kept up.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    And I am almost completely convinced that the human 24hr thing is completely environmental. Weren't there studies done forty years ago in caves, where natural cycles tended towards 26hr?

    But maybe I haven't kept up.
    That's why I wrote "approximately". My understanding though (from asking biologists studying circadian rhythms) is that it's a mixture of genetics and environment. We do have a natural process of time tracking that's based on molecular processes within our cells, but that cycle is modified by environmental factors. So maybe the natural cycle without the environmental cues end up being closer to 26 hours.
    As above, so below

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    I think you're over interpreting here. I think the point that Barabino was trying to make is simply that people don't simply sleep when it's dark
    Yes, but it was more in response to expanding on glappkaeft said rather than the general comment about light vs sleep.

    Another good example would be ISS and Apollo. Sure; it's not an "almost close to 24 hour" cycle that they experience, but it does show that light and sleep can and does get overcome.

    It's really hard to find a good analogy here because we are so tied to a 24 hour clock. Even 2nd or 3rd shift workers generally don't vary the time that they start, so they live with the same light conditions for sleep whether it's light or dark.

    Although; Maybe someone who stays out late and sleeps in later on the weekend might be a good one too.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by 14leblanck View Post
    Still I would like to know how our time system deals with the 23h56m0.5878s loss loss, is it ever somehow midnight at noon at some point or do clocks actually take 23h56m4.1s to spin twice.
    I just realized that your system uses a 24hr 36min Martian day.
    82(s)=1(Mam)Martian minute. ?
    30(Mam)=1(Mah)Martian hour. ?
    36(Mah)=1(Mad)Martian day.
    (36*30*82/60/60-24) * 60 = 36

    That's the Martian sidereal day, the solar day is closer to 24hr 40m, though not exactly

    http://www.universetoday.com/14717/h...a-day-on-mars/

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by grapes View Post
    And I am almost completely convinced that the human 24hr thing is completely environmental. Weren't there studies done forty years ago in caves, where natural cycles tended towards 26hr?

    But maybe I haven't kept up.
    I once read that natural cycles tended towards 24.5 hours, as if averaging a 24-hour light cycle and a 25-hour tidal cycle or something like that.

  19. #19
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    But the tide cycle is 12.5 hours

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    Okay, but averaging 24 and 12.5 would put you completely out of sync, whereas averaging 24 and 25 would at least be correct on alternate cycles of the latter.

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