Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 90

Thread: Could GM crops slowly end the world?

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,209

    Could GM crops slowly end the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by Trakar View Post
    Which crops do you feel have not been subjected to artificial or natural genetic modification through the splicing of sequences from other forms of life? I'm simply not aware that there ever has been such life on our planet.
    I meant "GM" in the sense of "modified with generic recombination technology". I know that these processes can occur naturally. I just meant to say that even in a nightmare scenario, it still would not possibly wipe out all of humanity.
    As above, so below

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    3,123
    See my post, No.12 , and the lack after three days of any further contribution from the OP, wd40.
    He's certainly pulled a lot of your chains this time!
    John

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    39,985
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnD View Post
    See my post, No.12 , and the lack after three days of any further contribution from the OP, wd40.
    He's certainly pulled a lot of your chains this time!
    John
    Such posts are inappropriate. If you have a concern about a post or poster, you report it, you do not post about it.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Metrowest, Boston
    Posts
    4,220
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Viehoff View Post
    The plant kingdom has many genes that make plants toxic, yet they have shown no inclination to spread themselves spontaneously into all our food crops, or indeed any of our food crops, even though humans have been genetically modifying food plants for thousands of years. Even if a strain of, say, wheat is genetically modified to contain a gene that makes it toxic, why can't we stop cultivating that strain of wheat and grow a different one instead? Why is that gene at all likely to get into rice or potatoes?

    So your answer is "no".
    Ivan Viehoff. The gene that's in our potatoes is from snowdrops, Galanthus. It contains small quantities of lectins, a cousin to the lethal ricin from Castor Beans. It's used to help the agribusinees industry save money by not having to spray for Colorado Potato beetle. Most of our domestic corn supply contains genes for BT...Bacillus Thuringensis, a bacterium efficient at clogging up the reproductive cycle of caterpillars. The European Common Market will not import these foods, hurting our trade balance, and a pretty good analysis (though somewhat scary) can be found in the book..."Trust Us We're Experts".

    pete

    SEE:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galanthus


    SEE:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ricin

    SEE:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_potato_beetle

    SEE:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_thuringiensis

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,193
    A relief to hear from you guys that is only the fantasists
    http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1668.htm
    who still believe that GM going wrong could ever rise to an extinction-level event.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    a long way away
    Posts
    9,170
    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    A relief to hear from you guys that is only the fantasists
    http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1668.htm
    who still believe that GM going wrong could ever rise to an extinction-level event.
    Well, that seems to confirm it. (I assume you don't actually think that is a serious news site.)

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    1,284

    No Frankenpig Apocalypse Required:

    This seems a slightly more plausible explanation for the mysterious floating pigs:
    A pig breeder from Yangzhuang village in Xinfeng town said the mass dumping of dead pigs into the river was thanks to the recent disappearance of a black market in which illegal dealers bought dead pigs from farmers, processed them and sold the meat to restaurants.

    "It's well known among us farmers that some traders were arrested at the end of last year and no one dares to sell the dead pigs," he said.
    Two weeks on and still no answers on source of dead pigs found in Shanghai river

  8. #38
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    20,356
    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    A relief to hear from you guys that is only the fantasists
    <link> who still believe that GM going wrong could ever rise to an extinction-level event.
    Do you even check to see if any of your sources are credible?

    Here's a few snippets from their site:
    WhatDoesItMean.Com Is One Of The Top Ranked Websites In The World For New World Order, Conspiracy Theories And Alternative News
    Some events depicted in certain articles on this website are fictitious and any similarity to any person living or dead is merely coincidental. Some other articles may be based on actual events but which in certain cases incidents, characters and timelines have been changed for dramatic purposes. Certain characters may be composites, or entirely fictitious.
    That completely negates any credibility in my mind.

    Oh; and how about the story itself. I googled this health minister and "swine". All I found were references to the swine flu that has nothing to do with the dead pigs, along with nothing but "woo" sites.

    What makes you think that so many conspiracy websites can openly report a story like while all the legitimate sites don't have a clue?
    Where did this 15 million number come from?

    Squink's link is entirely consistant with all the stories I have heard.
    We are talking about less than 1% of one breeder's yearly output. That's entirely within the realm of natural deaths. No need for any special cause. The entire problem is about disposal, not deaths.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    1,193
    If the "lethal RNA" in "frankenapples" turns out to be real, would this manifest itself in humans in years or decades?
    http://www.organicconsumers.org/arti...icle_27376.cfm

    Personally I have noticed that GM apples, although crisp and tasty, don't satisfy like a regular apple used to.

    Neither does a bowl of Kellog's cornflakes satisfy like it used to.

    If GM corn and other GM foods really are deficient in nutrients, how serious a problem is this?
    http://naturalsociety.com/analysis-m...ly-dead-toxic/

    If GM turns out to have been a failure and a hazardous mistake, would Monsanto etc and TPTB ever admit it? There have been many Hollywood films depicting the extremes that chemical, agricultural, cigarette, food and oil companies will go to to cover up and avoid litigation, compensation etc.
    Last edited by wd40; 2013-Apr-22 at 12:34 PM.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    39,985
    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    There have been many Hollywood films depicting the extremes that chemical, agricultural, cigarette, food and oil companies will go to to cover up and avoid litigation, compensation etc.
    Yes, Hollywood movies are a good source of factual information about the real world.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Posts
    563
    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post

    Personally I have noticed that GM apples, although crisp and tasty, don't satisfy like a regular apple used to.
    .
    Since there are no (none, zero, zip) GM apples available on the market, your "satisfaction" is completely unrelated to the process of selecting genetic changes based on molecular biological techniques.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Logan, Australia
    Posts
    222
    I think there is a very small possibility of GM "causing the end of the world," but not by doing anything bad to us and not by itself.

    At present 200 species are estimated to be going extinct every day. We can't keep pulling the foundations out from under us and expect it to keep standing. It may happen that one GM crop may cause 1 critical species that we don't even know exists to go extinct. That could be the tipping point.

    But by itself, GM is not a cause for major concern.

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Logan, Australia
    Posts
    222
    ha ha ha ha cough.
    I just looked at the web page where this great "report" came from. Like any reputable source of scientific info it had wall to wall pictures of celebrity cleavage down the right hand side.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Posts
    11,057
    Quote Originally Posted by BioSci View Post
    Since there are no (none, zero, zip) GM apples available on the market, your "satisfaction" is completely unrelated to the process of selecting genetic changes based on molecular biological techniques.
    Some days I love this forum!

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    26,018
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
    ha ha ha ha cough.
    I just looked at the web page where this great "report" came from. Like any reputable source of scientific info it had wall to wall pictures of celebrity cleavage down the right hand side.
    I just glaced down the list, and...

    Jenny McCarthy has her own talk show? Now that really could lead to the destruction of humanity!
    I'm a cynical optimist. I think the only way out is through, but once we get through it'll be better. Very different, but better. Howard Tayler

    It is not the most intellectual of the species that survives; it is not the strongest that survives; but the species that survives is the one that is able best to adapt and adjust. Charles Darwin

    Power, Lord Acton says, corrupts. Not always. What power always does is reveal. Robert A. Caro

  16. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I just glaced down the list, and...

    Jenny McCarthy has her own talk show? Now that really could lead to the destruction of humanity!


    We are doomed i say. doomed. we will all die of some old preventable disease now.

  17. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    39,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Antice View Post


    We are doomed i say. doomed. we will all die of some old preventable disease now.
    Actually, that might be closer to the truth than you think (or maybe exactly what you are thinking of). There is currently a pretty bad measles outbreak in the UK, and it has largely been attributed to parents not having their children vaccinated because of the scare tactics of the anti-vaccine groups, of which Ms. McCarthy is an active participant of.

    From the BBC
    First Minister Carwyn Jones has urged parents to make sure their children have both doses of the MMR vaccine, as his children had.

    It comes as the number of measles cases in the Swansea epidemic rises to 886.

    Mr Jones told assembly members the message was getting through about the importance of getting vaccinated.

    He said: "People should have their children immunised with both doses of MMR. My children were - I've got no problem in saying that."

    Public Health Wales (PHW) said 78 more cases had been reported since last Thursday with 80 hospitalised since the outbreak began last November.

    Tests are also taking place to establish whether the epidemic had claimed its first victim.

    Gareth Colfer-Williams, 25, found dead at his home in Swansea last Thursday, had measles but suffered other health problems including asthma.
    I suspect that such anti-vaccine movements will kill a lot more people than GM crops.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  18. #48
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    20,356
    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    If the "lethal RNA" in "frankenapples" turns out to be real, would this manifest itself in humans in years or decades?
    No different than what we have been talking about in your previous post.

    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    Personally I have noticed that GM apples, although crisp and tasty, don't satisfy like a regular apple used to.
    Neither does a bowl of Kellog's cornflakes satisfy like it used to.
    I've noticed that with just about every food that I eat. It's called aging.

    By the way, are there GM cornflakes? That negates your apple comment right there.


    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    If GM corn and other GM foods really are deficient in nutrients, how serious a problem is this?
    Let's see...
    You'd either eat more, or take more vitaimins. Doesn't sound too serious.

    And talk about biased information. That second link is not comparing apples to apples (pardon the reference)

    While non-GMO corn was found to be free of chlorides, formaldehyde, glyphosate (active ingredient in Monsanto’s best selling herbicide Roundup), and other toxic substances
    Wrong; even non-GMO corn can contain those ingredients.

    Also be wary of comparing ANYTHING to drinking water....
    the maximum amount of glyphosate allowed in drinking water is 700 parts per billion [...] The report found that GMO corn contains 13 ppm – that’s 18.5x the “safe amount” set by the EPA.
    The recommended water intake is around 4.5 to 6.5 pounds of water per person per day EVERY day.
    Now; how many pounds (on average) of corn does someone eat? Daily?


    Quote Originally Posted by wd40 View Post
    If GM turns out to have been a failure and a hazardous mistake, would Monsanto etc and TPTB ever admit it? There have been many Hollywood films depicting the extremes that chemical, agricultural, cigarette, food and oil companies will go to to cover up and avoid litigation, compensation etc.
    You do know that there are independent laboratories that test this kind of stuff, don't you?
    Even the worst corporate coverups get revealed after a while.

  19. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    location
    Posts
    11,557
    Quote Originally Posted by wiggy View Post
    I think there is a very small possibility of GM "causing the end of the world," but not by doing anything bad to us and not by itself.

    At present 200 species are estimated to be going extinct every day. We can't keep pulling the foundations out from under us and expect it to keep standing. It may happen that one GM crop may cause 1 critical species that we don't even know exists to go extinct. That could be the tipping point.

    But by itself, GM is not a cause for major concern.
    If there's a mechanism for it, it might be that GMO monoculture lasts up to the point that a sudden disease appears to which the GMO crop is not resistant and then you have mass crop loss and resulting famine.
    Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.

  20. #50
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    location
    Posts
    11,557
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    Let's see...
    You'd either eat more,
    Obesity related diseases are on the rise...

    ...or take more vitaimins.
    A lot of vitamins and mineral pills are problematic because they not absorbed for various reasons due to their method of ingestion.

    Now; how many pounds (on average) of corn does someone eat? Daily?
    On the other hand, what do you eat that doesn't have corn in it?
    Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.

  21. #51
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Actually, that might be closer to the truth than you think (or maybe exactly what you are thinking of). There is currently a pretty bad measles outbreak in the UK, and it has largely been attributed to parents not having their children vaccinated because of the scare tactics of the anti-vaccine groups, of which Ms. McCarthy is an active participant of.

    From the BBC

    I suspect that such anti-vaccine movements will kill a lot more people than GM crops.
    That was exactly what was on my mind.
    I'm not going to rant on about it. I could mind you, but there aren't enough total bandwidth on the internet to be able to transfer a tirade worthy of how the antivax movement makes me feel.

    Nothing makes my emotions scream out in rage like seeing young children suffer from adult stupidity.

  22. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    39,985
    Quote Originally Posted by Ara Pacis View Post
    Originally Posted by wiggy
    I think there is a very small possibility of GM "causing the end of the world," but not by doing anything bad to us and not by itself.

    At present 200 species are estimated to be going extinct every day. We can't keep pulling the foundations out from under us and expect it to keep standing. It may happen that one GM crop may cause 1 critical species that we don't even know exists to go extinct. That could be the tipping point.

    But by itself, GM is not a cause for major concern.
    If there's a mechanism for it, it might be that GMO monoculture lasts up to the point that a sudden disease appears to which the GMO crop is not resistant and then you have mass crop loss and resulting famine.
    Monoculture crops have been a concern for quite some time, well before GMOs arrived. In much of the developed world, for many crops, there are only one or a few varieties that account for many food crops. The possibility of an opportune disease showing up and harming that crop certainly exists. I haven't seen any data that this is more or less of concern for GMOs.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  23. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Monoculture crops have been a concern for quite some time, well before GMOs arrived. In much of the developed world, for many crops, there are only one or a few varieties that account for many food crops. The possibility of an opportune disease showing up and harming that crop certainly exists. I haven't seen any data that this is more or less of concern for GMOs.
    I think it's a pretty common conception that this risk is about equal for both types of crop. it's the nature of monoculture agriculture to be weak against new strains of diseases, and this is why there are seed bank initiatives in several places spread around the world. It's the best form of insurance we can get against sudden extinction of vital species of crop.
    IIRC we have a deep cavern seed bank that has the seeds for more than a million plant species here in Norway somewheres. the seeds are stored alongside the information needed to successfully grow these seeds into maturity. So even if something were to almost wipe out the biosphere. if anyone survives to start rebuilding civilisation, they will have access to all the seeds they need to begin replanting a viable biosphere. too bad we can't do the same with animals yet. I have even heard rumor of DNA banks being in the works, the limit is technology to birth a species without any members of said species being extant.

    But more importantly than the seed banks, not all places grow the same varieties of each crop type anyhow. different places and biomes need different properties and tolerances in the crop. In Norway we put a high premium on frost resistance and fast sprout to maturity times due to our short but intense summers. Crops grown further south are generally of a type that matures slower but with a higher yield, not to mention the need for robust drought resistance in the varieties grown in even drier areas.
    I cant imagine any kind of natural disease being able to make all of these varieties extinct in any manner of short timeframe without humanity being able to intervene somehow.
    We might have to do without one type of crop for a couple of years while we work on getting rid of the disease vector, but once the threat is gone, we can restart the species.

  24. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    27,658
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Monoculture crops have been a concern for quite some time, well before GMOs arrived. In much of the developed world, for many crops, there are only one or a few varieties that account for many food crops. The possibility of an opportune disease showing up and harming that crop certainly exists. I haven't seen any data that this is more or less of concern for GMOs.
    Isn't the Cavendish banana perpetually said to be just shy of extinction?
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  25. #55
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    1,564
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    Isn't the Cavendish banana perpetually said to be just shy of extinction?
    This almost happened to one variety of cavendish banana.
    The Gros Michel banana is no longer exported to the mass market due to the panama disease. It's not extinct as i first thought tho. it still exists in remoter areas that went untouched by the disease. Bananas is a fairly special case of monoculture tho, since the main species used for the mass market are in fact clones. the Grand Nain banana(aka Chiquita banana) is the one most commonly found in supermarkets in my part of the world at least. Non hybrid bananas aren't particularly edible I'm afraid. they are full of hard inedible seeds, but we can always use the wild species to make new edible hybrid varieties unless something virulent enough to knock out most of the wild species as well appears.

  26. #56
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,209
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Actually, that might be closer to the truth than you think (or maybe exactly what you are thinking of). There is currently a pretty bad measles outbreak in the UK, and it has largely been attributed to parents not having their children vaccinated because of the scare tactics of the anti-vaccine groups, of which Ms. McCarthy is an active participant of.

    From the BBC

    I suspect that such anti-vaccine movements will kill a lot more people than GM crops.
    Unless you count all the people who will be killed by overrating GM (or any other) crop.
    As above, so below

  27. #57
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    location
    Posts
    11,557
    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    Monoculture crops have been a concern for quite some time, well before GMOs arrived. In much of the developed world, for many crops, there are only one or a few varieties that account for many food crops. The possibility of an opportune disease showing up and harming that crop certainly exists. I haven't seen any data that this is more or less of concern for GMOs.
    Yeah, but a concern may be that a non-natural amalgamation of traits may create a vulnerability not seen before and which can't be predicted. I don't know if that's a valid concern, but it would seem to be a fundamental difference from Mendelian hybridization.
    Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.

  28. #58
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    20,356
    Besides WD40, t seems like GM food is back in the news again with a vengence and slanted reporting.

    This story put me over the edge.
    What's in your Chipotle burrito? (video only)
    Popular food chain Chipotle announces that some of its ingredients are genetically modified.
    The story seems to mix a lot of concepts of food processing with GM.
    They also intermix the word "artifical" with GM.

    They never even say what ingredients are actually GM. Only that after processing it contains GM products. I can only assume from the context that the only GM ingredient is the soybean oil they use.

    The nutritionist in the story is right about what it is, but the reporter is obviously changing the tone by paraphrasing the next part.
    Nutritionist: [It means] genetic material has been unnaturally changed.
    Reporter: That's because it's been processed and grown on factory like farms, [the nutritionist] says.

    What? I can grow GM food in a natural way in my backyard. That statement is absolutely wrong.

    "The soybean oil marinade in high quantites can lead to higher risk of heart disease or arthritis."
    Is that because it's GM or because it's soybean oil.


    Then, talking about the switch to sunflower oil, the nutritionist says "If [the chips] are made of whole corn and healthy oil they are actually good for you."
    If you place the same restriction as above (in high quantities), then no, they are not.

  29. #59
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    location
    Posts
    11,557
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    "The soybean oil marinade in high quantites can lead to higher risk of heart disease or arthritis."
    Is that because it's GM or because it's soybean oil.


    Then, talking about the switch to sunflower oil, the nutritionist says "If [the chips] are made of whole corn and healthy oil they are actually good for you."
    If you place the same restriction as above (in high quantities), then no, they are not.
    Yeah, sounds like they are attempting to conflate GM and industrial farming and nutrition. However, there are differences in the types of fats that are good and bad for a person. Different fats have different effects on cholesterol, and the same goes for the preparation of of corn used to make the chips.
    Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.

  30. #60
    Glom's Avatar
    Glom is offline Insert awesome title here
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    10,693
    It's all linked back to the superstitious dichotomy of "natural" vs "artificial". As we see, the most superstitious have the least comprehensive of what they're actually talking about.

    But isn't that always the case?

Similar Threads

  1. Is the sun getting hotter, and dimming slowly?
    By utenzil in forum Space/Astronomy Questions and Answers
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2010-Aug-10, 06:40 PM
  2. ECO problem crops up again
    By banquo's_bumble_puppy in forum Space Exploration
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 2006-Sep-09, 01:37 AM
  3. Ozone Recovery is Going Slowly
    By Fraser in forum Universe Today
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2006-Jul-05, 04:02 AM
  4. Replies: 17
    Last Post: 2003-Feb-21, 02:14 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
here
The forum is sponsored in-part by: