Why I can not have a free discussion with free people from the forum ?

[Strange]

There are rules. The moderators enforce the rules. If you don't like the rules then that is too bad. It is not a democracy; there is no right to "free speech" and therefore it is not censorship.

[dapifo]

As a personal aside, I spent several years on anthropology forms that are "free discussion", and there are so much grief and drama due to so many nutters, trolls and general obnoxious jerks on there that I just got sick of it all - and left. This is especially true when 90% of the posts had nothing remotely to do with the main topic of the forum.

Keep BAUT (now cosmoquest) the way it is. This forum's moderation standards ARE like a breath of fresh air. If you don't like it, start your own astronomy and physics forum and allow "free discussion" on there. Then let's see how well you like free-for-alls, petty dramas, airbags belching out insults, etc.

I understand what you say...but if you see my threads..it is not my case !!!

I agree absolutly with you...but only that then in CQ we con do only academic questions to be answered by Moderators, Members and Administrators...isn´t it?

Do you know other forum to have open and free discussions?...thanks !!!

[dapifo]

Those two concepts are not antonyms.

No it hasn´t, but here my experience says that yes ...

[dapifo]

This forum is first and foremost a mainstream Astronomy teaching family, school, and library friendly site. Think of it as a G rated movie, or as your grandmother's afternoon tea party. If you want to present ATM ideas, use ATM, and follow the rules. It is not a free-wheeling anything goes site.

Also try the CQ participatory forums. They're great. See how many craters you can find!

OK...I agree with you...thanks a lot!!
Do you know any other forum were I could have open and free discusions about the limits and boundaries of the current State of the Art and Mainstream?

[dapifo]

There are rules. The moderators enforce the rules. If you don't like the rules then that is too bad. It is not a democracy; there is no right to "free speech" and therefore it is not censorship.

Strange..you are in all the forums and threads..at any time....you spend too much time and effort on it.

I think that a change will be usefull in your life.. Free and Fresh Air will be good.

[tusenfem]

No...I am reffering to that one: http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...51#post2046851

let's take a look at your first comment:

Do you think that some time we will be able to "see" (detect and register) stimuli (waves,...) from outside of Our Known Universe

This is THE driving force behind all your discussions (that are now closed), and which is very apparent from your signature too.
The reason I told you to stop that specific discussion (in Astrophotography!!) is that: 1. it is the same thing over and over again; and 2. astrophotography is a totally inappropriate area of the board to start a discussion whether things could be "from outside the universe."

[tusenfem]

Do you know any other forum were I could have open and free discusions about the limits and boundaries of the current State of the Art and Mainstream?

You can discuss that here on CQ, however, to discuss about the limits and boundaries of mainstream, you first have to be familiar with mainstrean, which obviously from your threads you are not. You have preconceptions about what mainstream is, and then you have some ideas of "long wavelength" stuff, from which you deduce it should be from "outside our universe" etc.

But you can always go to Tommac's board
http://www.spacetimeandtheuniverse.com/
or to James Randy
http://www.randi.org/site/
or to thunderbolts for all I care
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/
but do not think you will have an easier time there than you get here

[dapifo]

As your coments are not in red I supose that I can answer them here.

You can discuss that here on CQ, however, to discuss about the limits and boundaries of mainstream, you first have to be familiar with mainstrean, which obviously from your threads you are not. You have preconceptions about what mainstream is, and then you have some ideas of "long wavelength" stuff, from which you deduce it should be from "outside our universe" etc.

It is impossible that anybody knows everything about mainstrean...there are especialits in different matters and fields (Cosmology, quantum, engineering, space observers, ...)

You have to learn to TEAM WORK...will be very usefull.

In this forum (like in others) the moderators, members, experts,... want to know every thing and to show as much they know...and that is good!!!...but also could be good to participate in an multidisciplinary team or discussion to exchange new ideas out on the mainstream boundaries..it is a nice execise to do if the people are adult, educated and is able to hear and give his free and educated opinions.

That is my opinion and believe...and my experience says that is very usefull...but also very difficult if people adopt any of the following positions:
- Going through the branches without control
- Or, otherwise, close in their ideas and censoring of the others.

But you can always go to Tommac's board
http://www.spacetimeandtheuniverse.com/
or to James Randy
http://www.randi.org/site/
or to thunderbolts for all I care
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/
but do not think you will have an easier time there than you get here

Thanks for the new forum links...but seams that they will be also not more succefull...we´ll see.

[Strange]

It is impossible that anybody knows everything about mainstrean...there are especialits in different matters and fields (Cosmology, quantum, engineering, space observers, ...)

(I'm back from a long walk in the sun, so I can answer now )

Nobody said you need to know everything about mainstream science. Or even know a lot. After all, one of the valuable aspects of a forum like this is to be able to talk to and ask questions of others who know more than me (which is most people).

But, if you are going to criticize or try to extend current knowledge then you need some understanding of current science. And, as tusenfem says, you appear to have very little.

You don't seem to be very interested in understanding the responses to your ideas which point out why they don't really have any basis, and don't even make much sense. Instead you just ignore that and carry on repeating the same (baseless) opinions. You need to learn to be more open minded and stop "censoring" facts and theory you don't like.

You have to learn to TEAM WORK...will be very usefull.

Science is nearly always carried out in teams of scientists, engineers and mathematicians with a variety of skills.

You seem to be suggesting that someone who knows very little about the subject and has some fanciful, but non-scientific, ideas should be part of this team?

[NEOWatcher]

No...I am reffering to that one: http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...51#post2046851

Even if your questions were purely questions and not inferences to ATM, then what does other universes have to do with that picture?

[Strange]

I am going to answer this point from another thread here as it is off-topic where you posted it (and I don't want to cause you more trouble).

Shame you do not want to go beyond what others say.

I can't go beyond what others say because I do not have the depth of theoretical and mathematical understanding required.

I think you have skills and knowledge to exploit developing new ideas ... only needs to be creative and imaginative

No, it doesn't just need creativity and imagination. Those things are utterly useless by themselves. You need theory, math and experimental date to filter out the "creative and imaginative" ideas that may have some value from those that don't. This is the bit you don't understand. This is why your ideas are not scientific. It is not enough just to have a "cool idea".

[And this is where you, predictably, post the standard out-of-context quote from Einstein ...]

[dapifo]

Even if your questions were purely questions and not inferences to ATM, then what does other universes have to do with that picture?

If Rick dedicate most of his time picturing and capturing images of the Universe (and of bodies very far away)..I see a logic question to ask him for his opinion about the existence and to see other bodies or entities from outside of our universe.

It is jaust a logic question (possible out of the adecuate forum?) for him.

[Strange]

Well, "logically" (1) it is obviously not possible to see anything outside the universe (2). More scientifically, it is not possible either (3)(4).


(1) The word "logic" seems to be used by people like you to mean "what I think" or "it makes sense to me".
(2) After all "universe" means everything there is.
(3) As far as we know, there is no "outside".
(4) Even if there were other universes they would be beyond the event horizon of the observable universe and therefore undetectable by definition. (If they weren't, then they would be part of this universe.)

[NEOWatcher]

If Rick dedicate most of his time picturing and capturing images of the Universe (and of bodies very far away)..I see a logic question to ask him for his opinion about the existence and to see other bodies or entities from outside of our universe.
It is jaust a logic question (possible out of the adecuate forum?) for him.

Why him? This board is filled with people that have discussed and photographed bodies far away. I don't see how that photograph implies any knowledge of other universes.
If your question were purely just questions, then why not ask in Q&A so anyone can "freely discuss" the issue?
Why hijack his thread with a discussion of outside his universe?
Even if you had some idea that he is the one to ask, then why not PM him instead of derailing the thread?

[dapifo]

Science is nearly always carried out in teams of scientists, engineers and mathematicians with a variety of skills.

You seem to be suggesting that someone who knows very little about the subject and has some fanciful, but non-scientific, ideas should be part of this team?

Yes...he could manage this teem !!!... because he has has a wider and general vision of all specialties...

Remember...sometimes the trees may not let see the forest !!!

[dapifo]

Well, "logically" (1) it is obviously not possible to see anything outside the universe (2). More scientifically, it is not possible either (3)(4).


(1) The word "logic" seems to be used by people like you to mean "what I think" or "it makes sense to me".
(2) After all "universe" means everything there is.
(3) As far as we know, there is no "outside".
(4) Even if there were other universes they would be beyond the event horizon of the observable universe and therefore undetectable by definition. (If they weren't, then they would be part of this universe.)

Posibly this is the Great Mistake of modern physics, to assume everything you say.

If we consider as an hypotesis that there is something beyond our universe would be clarified many things!

Please, come back to the other thread...that is not the place to discuss this.http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...01#post2047101

[Strange]

Yes...he could manage this teem !!!... because he has has a wider and general vision of all specialties...

My experience is that having people with zero understanding of the the work in a position of responsibility is a disaster.

Remember...sometimes the trees may not let see the forest !!!

But if someone doesn't even know what a tree or a forest looks like ...

[Strange]

Posibly this is the Great Mistake of modern physics, to assume everything you say.

Nothing is "assumed". You may have heard of a little thing called "evidence"?

If we consider as an hypotesis that there is something beyond our universe would be clarified many things!

It is considered as a hypothesis. There are a number of scientific hypotheses and speculations about various types of multiverse or other universes. Note that they are scientific because they are based on a sound understanding of our current theories. They are not just stuff that people have made up.

Please, come back to the other thread...that is not the place to discuss this.http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthre...01#post2047101

That doesn't seem to have anything to do with this subject. And now we are in danger of getting off the topic of this thread. If you want to discuss multiverse theories, you need to start a new thread.

[dapifo]

Why him? This board is filled with people that have discussed and photographed bodies far away. I don't see how that photograph implies any knowledge of other universes.

We were talking about his pictures...and he explained to me a lot of things (see the thread)... we were just friendly talking and discussing about bodies that was at 10 billions years light from here.

If your question were purely just questions, then why not ask in Q&A so anyone can "freely discuss" the issue?

Because we were cating there...Does Rick made any claim?

Why hijack his thread with a discussion of outside his universe?
Even if you had some idea that he is the one to ask, then why not PM him instead of derailing the thread?

What mean PM?... before I get in the thread there was any post (answer or question) there !!!!...have a look your self!!!

[Strange]

What mean PM?

Private Message: http://cosmoquest.org/forum/private.php

[NEOWatcher]

We were talking about his pictures...and he explained to me a lot of things (see the thread)... we were just friendly talking and discussing about bodies that was at 10 billions years light from here.

That was fine until you changed the subject to something outside the universe. Just because you had a discussion doesn't mean you can take that discussion in any direction you want.

You even say "I am sorry but the questios are absolutly different!!!..." when explaining why you didn't post it in your other thread. Do you not see that the questions are even more different than a discussion of a photo?

Because we were cating there...Does Rick made any claim?

What does Rick making or not making claims have to do with this?

[slang]

Because we were cating there...

Maybe that's where the problem lies... a forum is not a chat! A thread within a forum is supposed to stay on-topic, generally. The more serious the forum is, the more important it is to stay on topic. It's less important in the Off Topic Babbling forum than in Q&A or Astronomy. Of course you'll find threads where things do get off-topic, but we do try to stop it where necessary.

If you want to talk about something that is completely off-topic for a certain thread or forum, either pick an existing thread on the topic, or start a new one. Or, if you want to ask one person only, try sending a Private Message (which they may ignore, of course). If you're unsure what to do, you can always use the report icon or a PM to a moderator, and ask.

[R.A.F.]

Please, have a look to my started threads... and you will understand what I mean....

I did...and I understand that you "want" to discuss these "pet" ideas...however this board is NOT THE PLACE to do that.


Telling us that we should do things "your way" simply will not gain any "traction" as a discussion point on this board.



edit to add...the "problem" is you haven't shown where anything is "wrong" with the way things are presently done.

[John Mendenhall]

Posibly this is the Great Mistake of modern physics, to assume everything you say.

If we consider as an hypotesis that there is something beyond our universe would be clarified many things!

(snip)

Ah, at last, the crux of the problem! I assume that what you meant to say was “Possibly the great mistake of modern physics is to assume that everything in modern physics is true.”

If so, you are assuming that modern physics is a bunch of made up ideas that physicists assume are true. This is completely backwards!! Nothing in modern physics was assumed to be true when first proposed. All the ideas, all the little bits and pieces that make up modern mainstream physics, have been subjected to rigorous testing, peer review, matching to observations, again and again and again. And will continue to be. That is the nature of the scientific method. Please, read the Wiki article here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_method Science is NOT a faith system, it is NOT a “Let’s assume this is true” system of untested ideas. See the quote from korjik below.

CosmoQuest is a summation and a celebration of 1000+ years of meticulous work by thousands and thousands of scientists over millions of person hours using the scientific method, and continuing that work by observing, theorizing, predicting, and analyzing. If you want to post here, be sure you have your facts straight, or evidence to back up ATM ideas.

Go slow. Read. Listen. Learn. Repeat as needed. Don’t get stuck on your own ideas being correct. They might not be. Open mindedness is a 2 way street. If you only look in one direction you will get run over from behind.

Regards, John M.

[R.A.F.]

...I understand that you "want" to discuss these "pet" ideas...however this board is NOT THE PLACE to do that.

I should amend this to say that the Proving Grounds section of the board is the only place where non-mainstream ideas can be discussed, but only if one can follow the rules.

[Ara Pacis]

Is this a case of walking into a Taco Bell and asking for a Big Mac? Maybe someone can show him the way to GLP.

[slang]

Open mindedness is a 2 way street. If you only look in one direction you will get run over from behind.

Too bad my .sig space is 100% full.. A keeper.

[John Mendenhall]

Is this a case of walking into a Taco Bell and asking for a Big Mac? Maybe someone can show him the way to GLP.

I did this exactly at shopping center food court (side by side stores). Very embarrassing.

[John Mendenhall]

Too bad my .sig space is 100% full.. A keeper.

Thank you, Slang. There was some effort and time in that post.

Regards, John M.

[dapifo]

Maybe that's where the problem lies... a forum is not a chat! A thread within a forum is supposed to stay on-topic, generally. The more serious the forum is, the more important it is to stay on topic. It's less important in the Off Topic Babbling forum than in Q&A or Astronomy. Of course you'll find threads where things do get off-topic, but we do try to stop it where necessary.

If you want to talk about something that is completely off-topic for a certain thread or forum, either pick an existing thread on the topic, or start a new one. Or, if you want to ask one person only, try sending a Private Message (which they may ignore, of course). If you're unsure what to do, you can always use the report icon or a PM to a moderator, and ask.

I yhink that my questions were a little bit out of mainstream... but within the topic we were talking...to see and picture (detect and register) far away objects in the space.