Forum Merger Issues (was "Impending Forum Name Change")

[Jeff Root]

I have never tried to make any changes, although I
complained about the colors a couple of years ago,
but you can change the colors by clicking on your
name or the "My Profile" button at the top of the
screen and then the "Customize My Profile" button
just above the Visitor Message input box.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Frog march]

At the risk of a Godwin, it looks like Hitler.

more like Elvis.

[Frog march]

I'm worried that the Knowledge of the Secret 'Settings'-Button Location (KSSBL) cult hasn't got long to go.

[caveman1917]

I'm worried that the Knowledge of the Secret 'Settings'-Button Location (KSSBL) cult hasn't got long to go.

Since i read that remark and gave it a try, consider me a member

[mutleyeng]

gosh this is a bit radical.

The thing is, this forum is very specific in character... Its not a fuzy warm place like they wanted cosmoquest to be (thats not a critisism, i like it that way).
I can see advantages for cosmoquest being part of a larger pre existing forum, and perhaps it is workable - but i really hope those with any clout can ensure that the ethos behind this forum is not lost.

sharing the same server and resources is fine, but there really has to be a seperation of content from what is cosmoquest- the citizen science organisation, and what was BAUT, the forum for rigorous debate.
You can look to encourage crossover - but you will never achieve integration without killing off one or the other.

[Jeff Root]

Since i read that remark and gave it a try, consider me
a member

The fact that you say you [only just now] gave it a try
makes me wonder if you actually have the Knowledge
of the Secret 'Settings'-Button Location. It is NOT any
of the buttons I mentioned above, but it is very, very
close! I use the Secret 'Settings' Button every time I
come on BAUT. If you don't use it all the time, too,
then I suspect you don't know where it is. But if you
do, I wonder how you get by without using it.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

[Cougar]

....i really hope those with any clout can ensure that the ethos behind this forum is not lost.

For one thing, what happens to the forum categories?

[Ara Pacis]

Just a thought. Has anyone considered how CosmoQuestors (CosmoQuestians? CosmoQuistadors?) feel about this. Will it be in their best interests? How will it be beneficial to them to have us there.

[mutleyeng]

well, i guess it shows a vibrancy from the sheer jump in numbers and activity. They basically have to tout for business from missions to use them, and there is competition out there.
if you can suddenly have an active forum of 100,000 people - its a much better impression to visitors than a tumbleweed forum.

whatever any one says - GalaxyZoo attributes much of its success to the forum - and they are the yard stick

I would hope they will see fit to simply subdivide the forums into BAUT and cosmoquest sections - you can then mix the social off topic sections to get the crossover. That would work i reckon

[captain swoop]

For one thing, what happens to the forum categories?

As far as we know everything stays the same, we just get some new areas.

[Moose]

well, i guess it shows a vibrancy from the sheer jump in numbers and activity. They basically have to tout for business from missions to use them, and there is competition out there.
if you can suddenly have an active forum of 100,000 people - its a much better impression to visitors than a tumbleweed forum.

Won't be the first time I've been used as ballast by the owners of a message forum. Didn't much care for it then, either. PC Gamer Online sold out their membership to try and jump-start Daily Radar back during the dotcom bubble. Remember Daily Radar? Exactly. And it didn't earn much goodwill among PC Gamer's readers, either.

/ I don't know if the fact we're being used bothers me more than the blatant way in which we're being used.
// Can't believe I'm so soon again having to reconsider the degree to which I'm still willing to participate.

[Van Rijn]

Well, I'm hoping it will work out okay. I also hope you'll stick around, Moose.

[Nereid]

From the latest CQ blog entry:

CosmoQuest is the culmination of roughly 10 years of Fraser Cain, Phil Plait, and I working to communicate astronomy to the public. Over the decade the three of us have chatted in hotel rooms, skype windows, press rooms, bars, restuarants, Google Hangouts… We have chatted a lot, talking about what does and doesn’t work, talking about how we want to try and change and grow the field of astronomy to better engage folks like you in learning and doing astronomy while helping scientists better do science. When this all started, we were all separate entities. Phil had Bad Astronomy blog and forums. Fraser had Universe Today and its forums. And back in the day I was part of Slacker Astronomy which also had its own forums. The first thing to merge was the forums, and today there is BAUT Forum. Then Fraser and I started doing Astronomy Cast, bringing in Phil where ever we could.
In January, we launched CosmoQuest as the culmination of all those years of talking, and we gave it’s own forum (d’oh!).
When we created CosmoQuest, we were careful to make sure our forums were just CosmoQuest stuff, and if you wanted to go talk about other things… Well, we didn’t step on BAUT’s toes. We love them, and didn’t want to detract.
Well, last week, while talking about our dreams of building one large astronomy community, it suddenly made sense to merge BAUT and CosmoQuest forums under the CosmoQuest name.
Pamela’s first reaction was “EEP!” because that’s a whole lot of forum to merge! But then we did some googleing and found tools online that are designed to make merging forums like ours – based on the VBulletin software – a tractable process. Right now, if (if!!) all goes well with us and with out Amazon servers (that’s the if), we’re going to take down all the forums on Tuesday, back everything up, and merge. Failing that, we’ll try again at the end of the month (Pamela is going to TAM, Lunar Forums, and ASA in the middle, and would like to be at home for this so she can hack code as needed).
Moving BAUT to Cosmoquest will cause the following:
same ownership. Cosmoquest is run by Pamela, Fraser, and Phil
BAUT moves to CosmoQuest server
All the current boards and threads are kept (We’ll probably split out Astronomy Cast, and merge “About BAUT” and “General”)
Current CQ moderators/admins STAY. Current BAUT moderators/admins STAY.
More resources for spam hunting
A day of downtime, and then the familiar bug hunt as we stabilize the new forum.
More stuff on the Landing page of the forum (scrolling happens)
We’re going to have three difficulties to sort.
Problem children 1: Different people who have same user name on the two sites (who ever is consistently most active since January wins). We will email you if this is the case!
Problem children 2: People who have different user names on the same site and need to merge (database hacking will be involved). You’ll need to email us about this…
Problem children 3: Folks who have been banned from one community but not the other. If they are currently good citizens on one forum they will be given a new chance. Just stay a good citizen and your currently working login will stay working.
I hope all the CosmoQuest folks we’ll warmly welcome in the BAUT community!

[mutleyeng]

one much needed change - moderators now must remind us that they love us when giving out an infraction

[Swift]

one much needed change - moderators now must remind us that they love us when giving out an infraction

I'm sorry, my mommy always told me not to lie.

[Jim]

(Because I can't help it.)

CosmoQuest is the culmination of roughly 10 years of Fraser Cain, Phil Plait, and I working to communicate ...

"... of Fraser Cain, Phil Plait and me working to communicate ..." (This always grates.)

When we created CosmoQuest, we were careful to make sure our forums were just CosmoQuest stuff, and if you wanted to go talk about other things… Well, we didn’t step on BAUT’s toes. We love them, and didn’t want to detract.

Gee, thanks... I guess.

Well, last week, while talking about our dreams of building one large astronomy community, it suddenly made sense to merge BAUT and CosmoQuest forums under the CosmoQuest name.

Sure, the youngest kid always gets the preferred treatment.

Frankly, I think BAUT has the bigger reputation (we do get quoted and linked a lot) and CosmoQuest* should be merged under BAUT. But, nobody asked, so...

*Sorry, folks, but that is a dumb name. There are at least two other sites that use it or a close variation, it sounds like it belongs to a magazine, it brings up visions of cartoon characters... But, nobody asked, so...

All the current boards and threads are kept (We’ll probably split out Astronomy Cast, and merge “About BAUT” and “General”)

But, nobody asked, so...

We’re going to have three difficulties to sort.
Problem children 1: Different people who have same user name on the two sites (who ever is consistently most active since January wins). We will email you if this is the case!

So, even if you just joined, start posting a lot. Seems they could ask the two users. Maybe one would be happy to change. Use seniority or actvity as a tie-breaker.

But, nobody asked, so...

Problem children 2: People who have different user names on the same site and need to merge (database hacking will be involved). You’ll need to email us about this…

Uh, different names on the same site... aren't those socks? (Different names on the different sites, maybe?)

Problem children 3: Folks who have been banned from one community but not the other. If they are currently good citizens on one forum they will be given a new chance. Just stay a good citizen and your currently working login will stay working.

Fair. (And here's a chance for banned-from-BAUT folks to get back in!)

I hope all the CosmoQuest folks we’ll (sic) warmly welcome in the BAUT community!

Just as you would any stepchild, huh?

Maybe that sounds bitter, but, durn it, that's the perception I get of this "merger." CQ will allow BAUT to join and keep all its old Members and fora because, well, golly, we just love them so much. That's not a merger, that's an acquisition.

And that really grates.

[ToSeek]

Problem children 2: People who have different user names on the same site and need to merge (database hacking will be involved). You’ll need to email us about this…

Uh, different names on the same site... aren't those socks? (Different names on the different sites, maybe?)

I assume she means different names on the two sites, which will be one site after the merger.

[R.A.F.]

Folks who have been banned from one community but not the other. If they are currently good citizens on one forum they will be given a new chance.

Bolding mine...


Well, if it's the current denisens of CosmoKramer...um, I mean, CosmoQuest, then I don't have a problem.

However anyone that has registered at CosmoNaut...um, I mean, CosmoQuest, since the merger announcement...well, they should not be allowed to "game" the system.


Which seems perfectly reasonable to me...

[Cougar]

Frankly, I think BAUT has the bigger reputation...

But apparently not the bigger pocketbook. I think we probably ought to be thankful the site is funded at all.

[mutleyeng]

the whole banned/banning thing could become a bit of an issue.
You have quite particular rules for quite particular reasons at BAUT. I do not see that philosophy is compatible with Cosmoquest - something is going to have to give. What is considered a misdemeanor here, wouldnt be there - certainly not something to warrant banning somebody from doing citizen science.

[R.A.F.]

I think we probably ought to be thankful the site is funded at all.

As I mentioned, earlier, there are numerous posters here who offered to help with costs...in every instance, those offers were turned down.

[R.A.F.]

CQ will allow BAUT to join and keep all its old Members and fora because, well, golly, we just love them so much. That's not a merger, that's an acquisition.

And that really grates.

...and one would think that after all this "complaining", there would be some "effort" to make this merger easier...and all we get is Pamela likes the name CosmoQuest, and that's what it's going to be named.

Now I know that these forums are not "democracies", but hells bells, at least give us the illusion that we have some say in matters that effect us.

Is that really too much to ask??

[R.A.F.]

the whole banned/banning thing could become a bit of an issue.
You have quite particular rules for quite particular reasons at BAUT. I do not see that philosophy is compatible with Cosmoquest - something is going to have to give. What is considered a misdemeanor here, wouldnt be there - certainly not something to warrant banning somebody from doing citizen science.

Actually, there is a solution...segregate forum sections...some rules would apply in certain areas, (such as we have in the proving grounds setion of this forum), and in other areas they would not.

I can't see any other way of doing it.

[mutleyeng]

Actually, there is a solution...segregate forum sections...some rules would apply in certain areas, (such as we have in the proving grounds setion of this forum), and in other areas they would not.

I can't see any other way of doing it.

said the same thing myself R.A.F - i cant see it working any other way. It dosnt seem thats whats happening though (if cosmoquest threads are merged into BAUT, as the post implied)

Youd also probably need the abitlity to ban people just from posting in specific forum sections. Ive no idea if that is possible or not.
they are trying to make a chalk and cheese omelet

[R.A.F.]

Citizen science...what is that, anyway?

Are you "practiciing" citizen science if you believe you see "structures" on the Moon?

I guess my question is...are the "wackos" weeded out on CosmoQuest?

[Moose]

Before I comment, I feel I need to clarify/emphasize, it's not the idea of change or even sudden change that's bothering me. It does, it always will, but I've allowed for it. (Although I'm still not fond of the name), I don't actually have a problem, in principle, with a genuine merger with another forum. The economic factors make a certain sense, and there are certain opportunities that might turn out to be beneficial.

And yet...

I hope all the CosmoQuest folks we’ll (sic) warmly welcome in the BAUT community!

Just as you would any stepchild, huh?

I'm not usually big on analogies/metaphors, but this seems particularly apt, given...

Maybe that sounds bitter, but, durn it, that's the perception I get of this "merger." CQ will allow BAUT to join and keep all its old Members and fora because, well, golly, we just love them so much. That's not a merger, that's an acquisition.

The neglected child of a previous marriage. Three years without so much as a peep, let alone even token participation from our owners, and yet we're loved so much? Really?

And that really grates.

Yup. I think you've captured the essence of my resentment over this.

[R.A.F.]

...let alone even token participation from our owners...

Years after the fact, and I still find it very hard to believe that Phil has so little spare time, that he can't make an occasional post...or at least explain WHY he doesn't post...

...but no...not a peep out of Phil...on his own board.

[mutleyeng]

Phils record of sticking at things probably isnt the greatest

[Nereid]

the whole banned/banning thing could become a bit of an issue.
You have quite particular rules for quite particular reasons at BAUT. I do not see that philosophy is compatible with Cosmoquest - something is going to have to give. What is considered a misdemeanor here, wouldnt be there - certainly not something to warrant banning somebody from doing citizen science.

In another life, I had cause to look into the capabilities of bulletin board software, and discovered that there's a feature in at least one (don't know what, or if it's the vBulletin BAUT uses) that would ... elegantly ... solve this problem.

It involves a setting, by an admin or mod, to a user's account, and has the effect of making each and every post by that user visible only to themself (and to at least admins; mods? may be a setting to keep them in bliss too). For some reason I can't quite fathom (NOT), IIRC it was called "Coventry"

[slang]

Furthermore, Cosmoquest already has a budget and admin team that actively manage servers and databases.

I see this as maybe the biggest advantage. Hopefully this admin team will have a little time-zone spread, and we won't be depending on one single person anymore in case of trouble. It won't make it so trouble is a thing of the past, but at least there'll be a better chance of getting things fixed faster when the fan gets ... umm... contaminated.