Sane?

[ShinAce]

That's what I'd like to discuss with people who know someone who is more sane than they are

I'd say all of my ex girlfriends, save one, are more sane than me. If I was the most sanest person in the whole wide world, wouldn't that mean that all my ex's are less sane than I? Did you consider the insult you project on others when you call yourself the "most sane I know"? Is it not a sign of insanity to argue that your sanity is of the highest order? Have you seen American psycho? Quite the bag of tricks our psycho had at his disposal. Simply mimicking others seems to be a sign of insecurity and wanted to be accepted. Why do you(the most sane you know) want to be accepted by people who can't even match your god given sanity? That's insanity right there.

I personally think that I'm neither sane nor insane, but prone to moments of both. I think a healthy sense of right and wrong is a million times more important than any consideration of sanity.

[P Timmy]

Me, myself and Irene. (!!zoinks!!) <--ignore; not a symptom anything

LOL... Do you know what "zoinks" means in Swahili

[Buttercup]

LOL... Do you know what "zoinks" means in Swahili

No.

Dare I ask?? You can send me a private note; I'm curious.

You do know that Shaggy said "Zoinks!" a lot on Scooby-Doo. That's where I heard it from childhood...

[P Timmy]

No.

Dare I ask?? You can send me a private note; I'm curious.

I have no idea... I was just curious if you knew

[Luckmeister]

That's what I'd like to discuss with people who know someone who is more sane than they are... ie... is the insanity that you recognize about yourself unfixable... are you trying to fix it... do you not want to fix it.?

Now those are interesting questions. First, I'll replace your term insanity with illogical behavior to avoid a problem with definitions.

Is the illogical behavior that I recognize about myself fixable? Maybe, if it's something I want to fix. Sometimes I find it to be the appropriate behavior for the occasion. Strong emotional reactions are frequently illogical but may be the most effective way to make a point or induce desired action in myself or others.

Am I trying to fix it? Do I want to fix it? That totally depends on the situation in retrospect. If I felt my behavior was a mistake in judgment, yes. Trial and error is the primary way we learn when to choose logic over emotion.

Now, let me ask you this: Do you strive to eliminate emotional responses from your behavior? If so, have you truly accomplished it? I cannot imagine an emotionless life and would never want it.

[Gillianren]

Gillian, who is a she, makes it a policy never to speculate about sanity--or mental health, which is different--based on a few posts on a bulletin board. That would itself be an irrational act. What's more, what if I did think something you posted proved that your brain was, shall we say, not working up to capacity? Would I be so foolish as to risk saying it and getting suspended over it? That would also be irrational. What's more, as I've said, by any definition of sanity that is used in the real world, sanity is binary. You either are or you aren't. There is no "more sane." Therefore, the only way to be less sane than I know myself to be is to be insane. I'm not sure I know anyone who is truly insane; even my sister the sociopath knows that society thinks her actions are wrong. She just doesn't care, which is what shows that she's a sociopath.

[P Timmy]

"what if I did think something you posted proved that your brain was, shall we say, not working up to capacity? Would I be so foolish as to risk saying it and getting suspended over it? That would also be irrational.

I don't want to break a rule or cause suspensions so I withdraw the question.
Thanks for the "heads-up."

[P Timmy]

I'd say all of my ex girlfriends, save one, are more sane than me. If I was the most sanest person in the whole wide world, wouldn't that mean that all my ex's are less sane than I?

Yes

ShinAce
Did you consider the insult you project on others when you call yourself the "most sane I know"?

It's just my opinion... and I've clearly stated that I realize I could be wrong... but if I knew of someone that fragile I would give a private and/or public apology.

ShinAce
Is it not a sign of insanity to argue that your sanity is of the highest order?

I think that could very well be the case.

ShinAce
Have you seen American psycho? Quite the bag of tricks our psycho had at his disposal. Simply mimicking others seems to be a sign of insecurity and wanted to be accepted. Why do you(the most sane you know) want to be accepted by people who can't even match your god given sanity? That's insanity right there.

No I didn't see that movie(?) but it sounds good and I'll add it to my "Library movie" list.

Well... I'm just being me... and I'm here for fun/enjoyment which includes discussing controversial issues that interest me... and if I am insane as several posts in this thread have alluded to... I'm OK with it.

ShinAce
I personally think that I'm neither sane nor insane, but prone to moments of both. I think a healthy sense of right and wrong is a million times more important than any consideration of sanity.

By "healthy sense of right and wrong"... I take it that you mean a sense of right and wrong which conforms to societal norms... and that sounds like a good thing... as long as you're a sane/logical enough person to be a good person.

Personally... happiness is at the top of my list... and everything else just seems to fall into place.

[P Timmy]

First, I'll replace your term insanity with illogical behavior to avoid a problem with definitions.

Is the illogical behavior that I recognize about myself fixable? Maybe, if it's something I want to fix. Sometimes I find it to be the appropriate behavior for the occasion. Strong emotional reactions are frequently illogical but may be the most effective way to make a point or induce desired action in myself or others.

Please give an example of that.

Am I trying to fix it? Do I want to fix it? That totally depends on the situation in retrospect. If I felt my behavior was a mistake in judgment, yes. Trial and error is the primary way we learn when to choose logic over emotion.

Now, let me ask you this: Do you strive to eliminate emotional responses from your behavior? If so, have you truly accomplished it?

One of the least things I strive at is changing my behavior... I merely accept myself as I happen to be... so no... I don't strive to eliminate emotions from my behavior... but I do use logic to temper my emotions at times... most recently when my wife put a three year old little girl on the phone who wanted to say hi to me... and as I was listening to her sweet/happy little voice I was thinking... I'm so glad the difficult time your mother is currently having doesn't seem to be affecting you in a negative way... but at the same time I was saddened because I knew that could change at any moment... but I let that emotion go because it was illogical to continue to feel so sad about something which was beyond my control to change.

I cannot imagine an emotionless life and would never want it.

I suspect that in the not so distant future... emotions will be replaced by logic... and things like "emotions" will be experienced in a controlled way.

[Frog march]

logic is limited if you don't know everything about the Universe, and I don't think we ever can, or will know everything about the Universe.
With science, you have to use part of the Universe to analyse another part, like a microscope for example,and of course the human mind, so how can you discover everything about the Universe when you don't fully understand the tools that you are using to analyse it?

[P Timmy]

...how can you discover everything about the Universe when you don't fully understand the tools that you are using to analyse it?

If that type of understanding ever does become possible... for current humans to comprehend it would be about as likely as a puppy becoming a rocket scientist.

[TheOncomingStorm]

I don't really know if I am sane or not. I coming to realization that I might have social anxiety disorder and at times in my life episodes of depression. The anxiety disorder might even be genetic becuase they are plenty of the members of my family that are not the most sociable people on they planet. Good people but they tend to work in jobs were they can do a lot of it alone.

[P Timmy]

I don't really know if I am sane or not. I coming to realization that I might have social anxiety disorder and at times in my life episodes of depression.

I doubt that anyone is perfect... but do you know of anyone that you think is more sane than you?

[Luckmeister]

First, I'll replace your term insanity with illogical behavior to avoid a problem with definitions.

Is the illogical behavior that I recognize about myself fixable? Maybe, if it's something I want to fix. Sometimes I find it to be the appropriate behavior for the occasion. Strong emotional reactions are frequently illogical but may be the most effective way to make a point or induce desired action in myself or others.

Please give an example of that.

Alright, I have a friend who had the habit of setting a time to do something and then not show up or be very late, without calling to inform people of his change of plans. I discussed it with him but it did no good so I finally went ballistic one time he did it. I'm a pretty easygoing guy so it shocked him.

Looking back on it, I considered it appropriate for the situation because it got his attention and since then he's been much more considerate. You might say that it was a logical decision for me to express the anger but I didn't plan to act that way -- it just came out.

One of the least things I strive at is changing my behavior... I merely accept myself as I happen to be... so no... I don't strive to eliminate emotions from my behavior...

Are you sure about that? I constantly monitor my behavior and interaction with others as does everyone else I know well in my personal life. Throughout my adult life I have continued to consider myself a work in progress. At what point in life did you think you no longer needed to evaluate your own behavior?

...but I do use logic to temper my emotions at times.

Okay, then you do monitor and alter your behavior to some extent.

I suspect that in the not so distant future... emotions will be replaced by logic... and things like "emotions" will be experienced in a controlled way.

I sincerely hope that will be way into the future.

[Gillianren]

I don't really know if I am sane or not. I coming to realization that I might have social anxiety disorder and at times in my life episodes of depression. The anxiety disorder might even be genetic becuase they are plenty of the members of my family that are not the most sociable people on they planet. Good people but they tend to work in jobs were they can do a lot of it alone.

As I've said, that in no way changes your basic sanity. You may not be the most mentally healthy person in the world--if the social anxiety and depression severely influence your life, you might want to find a therapist--but there's a difference in legal parlance between "mentally ill" and "insane," and the medical profession doesn't use "insane" at all. And, yes, most mental illnesses are at least partially genetic.

[HenrikOlsen]

Yes I agree.
My definition assumes that there are no textbook-defined mental disorders. If I knew I had such a disorder my vote in the Poll would have been different.

It's a fundamental part of logic that if you assume something that is false, you can prove anything.

And since there demonstratably are textbook-defined mental disorders, you've invalidated any of your arguments right there.

[P Timmy]

Originally Posted by P Timmy
My definition assumes that there are no textbook-defined mental disorders. If I knew I had such a disorder my vote in the Poll would have been different.

"since there demonstratably are textbook-defined mental disorders"

Of course there are.

That statement was in reply to a post by Luckmeister which suggested that behavior such as mine might suggest megalomania... and I was attempting to explain that my personal definition did not include textbook-defined mental disorders because I don't have such a disorder that I know of... as the statement that followed corroborates:::

"If I knew I had such a disorder my vote in the Poll would have been different."

[P Timmy]

I have a friend who had the habit of setting a time to do something and then not show up or be very late, without calling to inform people of his change of plans. I discussed it with him but it did no good so I finally went ballistic one time he did it. I'm a pretty easygoing guy so it shocked him.

Looking back on it, I considered it appropriate for the situation because it got his attention and since then he's been much more considerate. You might say that it was a logical decision for me to express the anger but I didn't plan to act that way -- it just came out.

Even though it got you what you wanted on that occasion... I don't see involuntary/uncontrolled/ballistic behavior as being an asset.

Originally posted by P Timmy
One of the least things I strive at is changing my behavior... I merely accept myself as I happen to be... so no... I don't strive to eliminate emotions from my behavior... but I do use logic to temper my emotions at times...

Are you sure about that?

Yes... I didn't say it didn't occur... I said "it's one of the least things I strive at"... and I accept myself... ie... I don't tend to beat myself up/punish myself over mistakes.

Luckmeister
I constantly monitor my behavior and interaction with others as does everyone else I know well in my personal life. Throughout my adult life I have continued to consider myself a work in progress. At what point in life did you think you no longer needed to evaluate your own behavior?

Change is inevitable... but that I'm a "work in progress" never crosses my mind... hence... one of the least things I strive at is changing my behavior... but as I said... "I do use logic to temper my emotions at times."

Originally posted by P Timmy
I suspect that in the not so distant future... emotions will be replaced by logic... and things like "emotions" will be experienced in a controlled way.

Luckmeister
I sincerely hope that will be way into the future.

The "generation gap" is alive and well... but there's no stopping evolution.

Some of the younger people in this group may live long enough to have a shot at "immortality"... I'm in my sixties... but hopefully I will live long enough to see undeniable evidence of the future unfolding as I expect.

[Luckmeister]

I have a friend who had the habit of setting a time to do something and then not show up or be very late, without calling to inform people of his change of plans. I discussed it with him but it did no good so I finally went ballistic one time he did it. I'm a pretty easygoing guy so it shocked him.

Looking back on it, I considered it appropriate for the situation because it got his attention and since then he's been much more considerate. You might say that it was a logical decision for me to express the anger but I didn't plan to act that way -- it just came out.

Even though it got you what you wanted on that occasion... I don't see involuntary/uncontrolled/ballistic behavior as being an asset.

"Involuntary/uncontrolled/ballistic behavior" is an extreme way of describing it. I didn't explain to you what, for me, is "ballistic" and I was definitely not totally out of control. Yeah, it got me "what I wanted" but that was to change his behavior in a way that was beneficial to him in his relationships with more people than just me. As I said, it was a last resort when discussion didn't work. My action did not hurt our friendship and I didn't do it in public where it would have embarrassed him. I know I did the right thing at the time but it is by no means my default way of solving a problem.

Yes, I know your philosophy -- anger is bad... it's never the right thing to do... it should be eliminated from our behavior. I agree that there is far too much anger in the world. I just seldom use the words always and never when discussing complex human behavior.

[Gillianren]

Further, I put it to you that someone with such an idiosyncratic definition of "sane" does not know enough about psychology to reasonably discuss human emotion in any kind of meaningful way. Nor can they be assured of having studied enough about human behaviour to know how people do and don't react to stimuli.

[P Timmy]

Further, I put it to you that someone with such an idiosyncratic definition of "sane" does not know enough about psychology to reasonably discuss human emotion in any kind of meaningful way. Nor can they be assured of having studied enough about human behaviour to know how people do and don't react to stimuli.

Oh yeah... well how about you start a thread "on those issues" and test it out.

PS
If your post wasn't directed at me... please disregard this post

[Jens]

I'm not sure I know anyone who is truly insane; even my sister the sociopath knows that society thinks her actions are wrong. She just doesn't care, which is what shows that she's a sociopath.

I could imagine that a person might have a variety of reasons for not caring that society thinks their actions are wrong, and not all of them indicate that the person is a sociopath. For example, I'm certain that people like Nelson Mandela are aware that the dominant society did not approve of their actions, and yet they don't care. That condition alone doesn't necessarily make the person a sociopath. Obviously I don't know your situation, but is your sister in a situation where's she's a serial killer or something, and the people of the society are clearly aware that she is a sociopath?

[ToSeek]

Oh yeah... well how about you start a thread "on those issues" and test it out.

PS
If your post wasn't directed at me... please disregard this post

P Timmy, your response is pushing the "Politeness and Decorum" rule here at BAUT. "Oh yeah" is not really the tone we want to see here.

[P Timmy]

P Timmy, your response is pushing the "Politeness and Decorum" rule here at BAUT. "Oh yeah" is not really the tone we want to see here.

I thought the "wink emoticon" at the end of the post would show that the "Oh Yeah" was meant in jest... but lesson learned... thanks.

[Gillianren]

I could imagine that a person might have a variety of reasons for not caring that society thinks their actions are wrong, and not all of them indicate that the person is a sociopath. For example, I'm certain that people like Nelson Mandela are aware that the dominant society did not approve of their actions, and yet they don't care. That condition alone doesn't necessarily make the person a sociopath. Obviously I don't know your situation, but is your sister in a situation where's she's a serial killer or something, and the people of the society are clearly aware that she is a sociopath?

Nelson Mandela believed his society was wrong and worked to change it. He also agreed with some of the things his society thought was wrong, and it's specifically in those areas that sociopathy generally applies. My little sister isn't a serial killer; she's a kleptomaniac. It's also true that Nelson Mandela wanted to improve society for other people as well as himself, whereas my little sister doesn't entirely seem to recognize that other people have needs.

[BigDon]

Take one human brain, mix well, come up with me.

So starting thirty years ago with a tramatic brain injury that crunched my left temporal lobe and left me all seizurey, then whatever it was that messed up after my last bad seizure last August. For a week my right eye didn't want to track at the same speed as the left eye and if I wasn't specifically paying attention to it, my right eye would keep centering itself. Had to hide in my room for a week. Now I have occipital lobe seizures three or four times a month instead of every two years or so.

I think my brain is slagging.

[HenrikOlsen]

Sane and insane are definitely layman's terms and they aren't even a distinction as the words as commonly used are not antonyms.

[Noclevername]

Where's the "none of the above" vote?

[HenrikOlsen]

And what happened to "Beer"?

[Luckmeister]

And what happened to "Beer"?

I drank it. My exchange of posts with P Timmy drove me to drink.