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Thread: my 8 yr olds theory about the big bang

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by WayneFrancis View Post
    I think you got your picture of space time wrong. It isn't like space time is getting sucked into a black hole leaving less space-time outside of the black hole. You can't use an analogy like water going into a drain where the drain is a black hole and the water is space time.
    And why not?
    I think the old balloon analogy of the universe can be applied to black holes. If one makes a pucker in the surface of a balloon and gives it a twist trapping some air inside, that would be similar to the formation of a black hole. We observers on the (spacetime) surface of the balloon see only the highly distorted (curved spacetime) rubber skin left behind but we don't see where the missing part of our (spacetime) rubber skin has gone. It has gone into the black hole which is a mini-balloon universe of its own.
    Quote Originally Posted by WayneFrancis View Post
    The universe doesn't seem to have a finite amount of "space time". I think your pushing an analogy on how to think about space time a bit to far.
    The alternative to a finite spacetime is an infinite spacetime and I pick the former rather than the latter.
    Quote Originally Posted by WayneFrancis View Post
    Think of it this way. If our sun turned into a black hole what would the effect on space time around the Earth be? The answer is the same as it is now. But if your idea was correct and the black hole is sucking in a limited resource of space time then the space time around the Earth would quickly be effected. But this isn't how gravity works even in extreme situations like black holes.
    Changes in spacetime are distributed universe wide so any local effects would be negligible. Think of it this way. The spacetime condition of a universe with few or no black holes should not be the same as a similar sized universe made up of an enormous number of black holes or even a few really large black holes. I can't imagine that black hole formation leaves the rest of spacetime unchanged. Changes in spacetime are distributed universe wide so any local effects would be negligible.
    Quote Originally Posted by WayneFrancis View Post
    The more space time you have the more expansion you get. The expansion not only doesn't diminish but it is accelerating.
    Where does one get more spacetime? I understand the expansion of space to be a change where spacetime goes from a highly curved condition to a less curved condition. In other words, existing spacetime is being "stretched" out but no new spacetime is being created. There is no such thing as more spacetime coming from elsewhere or "replenishing" spacetime that is lost.
    Black hole formation converts normal, weakly curved spactime into highly curved spacetime thereby stretchingthe space that remains on our side of the Schwartzschild radius and this could contribute to the appearance of expanding space.

  2. #32
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    I'd remind members that the Q&A forum is for asking basic questions and getting mainstream answers. A speculative question is not an invitation to explore personal views.
    I don't see any Ice Giants.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Angstrom View Post
    Black hole formation converts normal, weakly curved spactime into highly curved spacetime thereby stretchingthe space that remains on our side of the Schwartzschild radius and this could contribute to the appearance of expanding space.
    Perhaps this (simplistic) view might help:
    A black hole is nothing but a grouping of the particles that make up the black hole. The space-time was curved around each particle and continues to be curved around the same particles. They are just bunched up.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Angstrom View Post
    I understand the expansion of space to be a change where spacetime goes from a highly curved condition to a less curved condition. In other words, existing spacetime is being "stretched" out but no new spacetime is being created.
    Current observations are not quite good enough to tell, but they appear consistent with Einstein's cosmological constant, in which case your understanding is incorrect. In such a view, space is not like a gas that becomes less dense as its volume increases. The energy density of the vacuum stays the same even as the universe expands. Odd, but what else is new?
    Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    Perhaps this (simplistic) view might help:
    A black hole is nothing but a grouping of the particles that make up the black hole. The space-time was curved around each particle and continues to be curved around the same particles. They are just bunched up.
    So basically a black hole is the most compressed form of energy/matter that's currently known to man.

    Sorry, just asking for a consensus for an easy explanation for an 8 year old.

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