Are you serious??? you and you alone started all this talk about aliens.Originally Posted by Aethelwulf
Senior Member
Are you serious??? you and you alone started all this talk about aliens.
Banned
You're right... many of the incidents mentioned so far are known, par one or two. What I didn't realize that the audience would not know the facts as well.
Banned
Yes, very serious. UFO means, unidentified flying object. I am traditional in the sense of the word.
Senior Member
??? what does wiki have to do with this?
Senior Member
Sorry to have wasted your time, but I don't "do" games...
Bubye...
Order of Kilopi
Okay, you have tens and tens, but why not start with one? If you do have hard evidence as you say, you will need to establish it with some care.
For the above, for example, you would need to establish there was a technological device involved in the first place, and if there was, how the speed of the object was determined.Advanced technology may include speed, trajectories which otherwise would rip a human apart (evidence perhaps these things are not biologically controlled.)
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?
The Leif Ericson Cruiser
Order of Kilopi
So the fact that there were many objects makes it more likely that they were large, and far away? I don't see that as particularly convincing.
Here's Jim Oberg's take on the subject.
http://www.rense.com/general/stsd.htm
Now, the notched circles -- these are very unusual images, not common on other shuttle videos. But a careful analysis of the many cases of notched circles crossing the STS-75 screen shows a tell-tale pattern: the position of the notch clocked around the rim is a direct function of the position of the circle on the FOV. As a circle moves, at different points on the FOV, the notch is in different positions. But as the circle moves across the screen, it repeats the notch position of circles that had previously been at the new position it reaches.
Map this out, and you can see this consistent pattern. So, if the notch position is a function of the position on the FOV, we are talking about a camera-related factor here, an artifact of the optical system, and not a "REAL" image of some object.
Order of Kilopi
In post #3 you posted:
Can you explain how displaying a technology that is not our own would not mean an identification as alien? It appears you want to promote many of these sightings as alien(your comment in post #3), but also don't want to be seen as promoting them as alien(your comment in post #33).
Order of Kilopi
You've made some bold claims (literally - you bolded the word "fact" in your other current U.F.O. thread) but now you apparently need time to prepare your case.
I'd suggest you stop replying to this thread for a while, until you've actually got that "evidence" ready. We won't get anywhere until there's something to actually discuss.
In future, please have your content ready before making the big claims.
NB: the pattern of { you:bold claim | member:detail | you:dismiss detail with hand wave } is not going to fly here. If you think UFO's are, whatever you think they are, it's up to you to show that.
Last edited by pzkpfw; 2012-May-22 at 05:25 AM. Reason: NB:
Get up, a get-get, get down.
Banned
Between the years of 1896 and 1897, there was a series of mystery airships. The was the precuser, or the catalyst many considered for the UFO phenomenon. In a way, it was the public finally becoming aware of these things.
The Texas Aurora incident is perhaps, one of the best mass sightings which has had plenty investigation. Skeptics started to say it was a hoax, however, massive holes into the hoax theory where eventually uncovered. A series of investigators went to the area and uncovered physical evidence for the incident actually happening. Some of this we will dicuss soon. Some also consider there to be evidence which can be damining that is yet to be found. The true smoking gun, some are led to believe.
The Hopeh incident refers to a UFO which has reportedly been caught in a photograph. It was considered to be a real photograph, the object shows all classic signs of the UFO's we often see today in modern culture. Some... rather radical suggestions had been brought forth to what it could be.
The Battle of Los Angeles refers to a mystery object which was seen to be floating above a Military establishment. It was in the year 1942 and triggered a massive attack from ground troops. Anti-aircraft artillery exploaded all around the object but seemed to be uneffective. After a certain period of time, the object vanished over the horizon. Many bore witness to the event which is also a demonstration of a superior technology, since anti-aircraft artillery would have blown any known, modern aircraft of the time down.
Kenneth Arnold, known for his development of some of the most advanced types of aircraft saw something he could not explain. It was his sighting of several disk shaped saucers skimming the air while flying an aircraft was the term ''flying saucers'' born.
The 1952 washington incident, hailed as one of the best UFO documented cases explained how UFO's were captured on radar, and interception had been ordered. Each time interception had been ordered, they approached the objects and evaided the aircraft sent. An explanation was given that it was a weather phenomenon, however, Military officials at the time explained that the weather does not evade interception, these aircraft showed intelligence.
Dyatlov Pass incident is perhaps one of the strangest cases of UFO-related events. UFO's had been seen over the mountains the night a bunch of ski hikers had went up into the Ural Mountains. Their bodies were found only a few says later... their bodies had been irradiated beyond belief.
The Westall UFO incident, personally my favourite, was a mass sighting case. A UFO appeared over a school in which all the children at the time bore witness. One of the children passed out. Then Military Officials came into the scene, they took the girl away and in an interview many years later, the children were grown up. One witness stated, ''we never saw the girl again''. Some have conjectured that this was somehow a controlled military experiment, however, the facts of that conjecture do not add up... afterall, why would the Military fly such a craft in full view of the public and then try their very best to keep it secret? All the children where sworn to secrecy never to mention this again, even the teachers. And if they did, they would be open to ridicule.
Shag Harbour UFO incident is perhaps another favourite of mine. Also caught on radar, an object was seen by a group of people to descend into the waters near shag harbour. The Canadian Military had been watching the object descend into the waters and it actually made its way to a nearby military fascility... unto which just before they arrived at the scene, the UFO ascended and disappeared out of sight.
The Colares Flap Incident involved one of the first incidents where UFO's have attacked. During the outbreak, the UFO's shot beams of light at the citizens which wree believed to be some kind of extreme intense and focused radiation. Those who were hit by the beams suferred severe radiation burns. A doctor present on the island treated them for their burn marks. The Brazillian Governement dispatched a team to investigate it, and it was classified until the 1990's.
The 1976 Tehran incident involved two fighter aircraft assembled to intercept a mystery objects which shone with tremendous light. There was also visual confirmation of the object, but each time they got close to the object, all instrumentation and communications were lost and they had to retreat. This happened twice before the object disappeared. This shows a remarkable technology much greater than our own. The object also shot another object at the approaching F-4 Phantom jet, circled it and went back to... which I can only gather as the Mother Ship.
The Hudson Valley Incident was a wave of UFO sightings which was witnessed by many people.
Rendlesham Woodbridge Incident... do I need to say more? One of the most famous cases involving Military personnel.
The Cash Landrum Incident is in fact a very strange case, where three witnesses observed a diamond shaped UFO, and irradiated them terribly. The UFO was being escorted by helicopter it seemed. They were treated for their horrific injuries and was also subject to trying to sew the government.
Another case of a Diamond Shaped UFO which was accompanied by Harrier jets... perhaps the same ufo? Who knows, all we know is that it happened in Pitlockry, date unknown to me. The diamond shaped UFO was huge and the picture was the Ministry of defense which it was then subjected to several experts who came to the conclusion that the Object was real. the gained a lot of attention from the officials, unto Nick Pope, senior defense staff specialist at the time was aware of. His boss believed it could have been a secret prototype belonging to the American Government, but when asked they denied all knowledge. As soon as they did however, the picture mysteriously disappeared from the MoD's possession, and all that is left is a crude photocopy.
A sequence of five mass UFO sightings appared over Tinley Park.
The 2007 Alderney UFO sightings involved two seperate airline flights by two airline Pilots off the cost of Alderney.
So yes... we have quite an array of UFO sightings here - all of them involving more than one witness. Some of the cases showed that these objects are very real, caught on radar and even some of them exhibited dangerous tendancies - other hostile. The hostile cases of UFO's, some not even mentioned here are a lot rarer, but have been known to happen. But perhaps, more importantly, some of these objects if not the greater majority display a technology which seems far more advanced than what we even have today, many years later, which is quite worrying to say the least.
As I mentioned, the Westall case was my favorite... it involved the innocence of children who had nothing to gain from a conspiracy hoax. Respectable teachers as well, and all these years later, whilst the teachers never came forward, the children did.
The greatest wonder is the secrecy that surrounds this topic and the nature of the officials who keep these secrets - we shall get to these soon. I often hear arguments like ''but if it was real, there would be leaks...!''
Gradually over the long years, there has been leaks from very respectable people. Perhaps was more surprising to the skeptical public was that the FBI denied even investigating UFO's... This official statement was made in october 1973 by Director Clarence M. Kelly who, explained in his own words:
''the investigation into unidenified flying objects is not and has never been within the jurisdiction of the FBI.''
Then in 1976 over 1000 documents on UFO investigations appeared into the public eye - after that moment, the believers could never trust an official word ever again... and who could blame them? Perhaps what should be an interesting thing to note, is that if UFO's where not taken seriously by the Governement, we should ask then why so much tax-payers money was used to investigate it? In fact, not long ago the official statement of the Whitehouse was, ''that there was no evidence supporting the existence of extraterrestrials.''
This statement in itself can be demonstrated wrong... perhaps the Whitehouse has suddenly forgotten the 1952 incident in which the capitol was intercepted by several unusual objects cascading through the skies at very high speeds. Again, officials main objective was to deny everything - a weather phenomenon, even though these things had been caught on radar with visual confirmation and evaded the aircrafts sent to investigate and shoot these objects down. Weather doesn't act like that, and the Military where almost being made to look like fools, which I think was the main reason why officials at the time said this explanation was bunk.
Then there was a case involving NASA, saying that they have never investigated the UFO activity and never intend to do so. In fact, they said;
''NASA is not engaged in any type of research program involving UFO activity.''
However, it was soon discovered in a NASA instruction manual that UFO's where to be reported immediately and the outcome of the investigation;
''would never be discussed with the caller.''
Indeed, many astronauts who have worked for NASA have came forward testifying to the real existence of these objects... some have even came forward and admitted them to being of extraterrestrial origins. In fact, NASA test pilot Joseph Walker who test flew the rocket- powered X-15 said himself that it was one of his duties to look for UFO's. So much for NASA not being interested in UFO's, right? Gorden Cooper has admitted to seeing UFO's - and perhaps one of the best witnesses is Edgar Mitchel, considered a hero in his own right said that he is well aware of the UFO phenomenon and that he was also made aware very early on that these where of extratterestrial origin. He said there was a lot of back-engineering done to try and recreate this technology and that the governement had been in a desperate race to get this technology first - more so that the information into these activities where kept highly secret because of for natural reasons we could all assume, if we had this kind of technology in its fullest, we would be tremendously strong military wise.
In fact when president Carter wanted a reinvestigation into the UFO phenomenon, in a previously secret letter, Colonel Charles Senn hoped to stop the release of vital information on UFO activities. In the letter, he stated that ''he sincerely hopes you are successful in preventing a reopening of UFO investigations'' to NASA headquarters.
Maurice Chatalain, while we are on the subject of the NASA lies, said that this secrecy came about because all Gemini and Apollo flights and where ''closely monitered'' so the mission had been ''sworn to secrecy.'' Maurice is a former NASA communication specialist, who specialized in telecommunications and telemetry and radar systems.
Of course, what about physical evidence? Why is it we only have photographs and video recordings?
It has been noted that the most safest method of transport in by air. So how many of these advanced technological aircraft are going to fall and crash tomorrow? Assuming these are of extraterrestrial origins, they seem to be able to fly in and out of the stratosphere easily. So why should the believer have the kind of evidence being asked for? Even if a UFO came crashing down, we have evidence from secret memorandums that these objects are quickly retained by recovery groups, as you would expect if the governement really was involved in a coverup. Already, one just looks at the Roswell Incident for a quick example [1]
As for physical evidence, it seems there is plenty of it but it won't be released any time soon. Wilbert Smith, in a memorandum said that the secrecy of the UFO phenomenon was rated even higher than the H-Bomb. He actually came into possession of what was believed to be a broken peice of a UFO. He is famously noted for saying:
''We have done a tremendous amount of detective work on this metal... we have something which was not brought here by plane, nor by boat, nor by helocopter... we are speculating that we are in posession of a portion of a much larger device which came into this solar system - we don't know when, but it has been in space for a long time. We can tell this by the micrometeorites embedded in the surface.''
His work however has never been declassified. He worked for the dep. of Transport and I doubt his work will be released for a while.
And finally, let us not forget the transcriptions made by astronauts. Some very odd one's refer to objects as ''alien spacecraft'' rather than bogies. And as we know just by reading the history, many of the astronauts had encountered UFO's. Even footage of these craft have been taken. And no... they are not ice crystals lol... that explanation just runs as tiring as all the other conventional explanations which were used to debunk many credible UFO sightings. Someone here remarked... ''all STS taped can be put down to ice crystals''
Yes... only if you are a lousy investigator? Such as the STS-51a - A metallic orb comes into screen wobbles about and then shoots off... That ain't no ice-crystal!
[1] - I am also aware of the ''debunking'' documents created by the government to explain what happened in Roswell. A lot of the reports in the Mogul report is just a load of rubbish. Many parts of the report don't add up. Though I do believe such a project had been created, I don't believe this is what was seen as it completely ignores all testimony of the witnesses involved.
Banned
Prepare?
type up more like.
Banned
Ah! I never got to the physical evidence of the Aurora texas incident.. I will type that up now.. I knew I was forgetting something.
Banned
One of the debunkers cases for the hoax theory in the Aurora Texas Incident, was that there was no well.
Later investigators found a well in which a windmill would have been attached.
The area was also found to be scattered in aluminium: molten aluminium was found everywhere, even inside a very old tree at the site, which was an indication that something had happened here a long time ago.
The well was further investigated to see if any of the aluminium parts to the alleged UFO was still there. The investigators uncovered it, and found that the water had no large parts, but a chemical analysis of the water found a very high concentration of aluminium... coincidence? It's a bizarre one if it is.
One of the hoax theorists also said there was no evidence of a buriel. That was misinformed because it was recorded in the paper. Later they also uncovered a burial site which was not marked by any gravestone. It would have been the place where the trivial gravestone had been place. Something was also removed from the gravesite, a peice of material believed to be. The body cannot be exhumed as the officials will not allow it.
Senior Member
The kitchen sink?
Senior Member
Not really interested in a "regurgitation" of every sighting on record.
Why don't you pick one or 2 that you think have credible, convincing evidence??
Banned
It is conceivable that some government has a technology more advanced than those we associate with Britain and America. When I say it displays a technology more advanced than our own, I really mean, what we should have.
Banned
They are all convincing in my eyes. Accept it or don't.
Banned
RAF... you pick one to discuss.
Banned
I'll tell you what RAF, discuss the Westall Incident.
Senior Member
What claim are you making re. Westall???
Be specific.
Banned
There seems to be quite a few typo's in the work above. I was trying to type it all quickly and I didn't spell check it. Sorry about that folks!
Banned
Didn't you read what I had to say?
It is called the Westall Incident - A UFO incident. If you didn't read what I had to say, investigate it on wiki.
Senior Member
If it's in the "wall of text", then no, I didn't read what you had to say.
Why don't you just repeat your claim?
Moderator
Shotgunning a huge list like the one above is no good, you have just made a vague list of 'incidents' and tacked on some speculation.
You know our rules for posting, if you don't then refresh your memory from the links at the bottom of this post and read the advice for posters link.
I want your next post to be a detailed look at your best example with some support and evidence. Just naming an incident with a link and saying 'look at the evidence' is no good. PRESENT the evidence in more detail than 'One of the hoax theorists also said'
Rules For Posting To This Board
All Moderation in Purple
Bad Post-Doc
Yeah, I'm more interested in reading specific details about one which actually provides something convincing than a scattershot of many which is all based on hearsay and has no proper citations of evidence. As in, I might bother doing it.
_____________________________________________
Gillian
"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"
"You can't erase icing."
"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
Banned
I would have been writing for much longer if I provided citations. I can tell you however, that if you did a random search on any of the material above, you'd almost definitely find it. If you can't I'd find the work for you.
Banned
I choose the Westall Incident to start off with. I think that case is most curious. Then maybe we can discuss the Shag Harbor Case.
Banned
What is it I am doing wrong. I always receive warnings I don't understand.
Banned
You think, because I treat UFO as ''unidentified flying object'' you think this is a game?
grow up. I'm glad you're not going to be discussing this any more.
Order of Kilopi
Okay, what's the hard evidence that should convince skeptics in this case? What exactly is it that skeptics should be convinced of?
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?
The Leif Ericson Cruiser
Posting Permissions
