Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 53

Thread: About UFO's. [why fake evidence?]

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641

    About UFO's. [why fake evidence?]

    I am reserved in what I believe concerning their origins, but there seems to be a lot of evidence suggesting that UFO's could be of inter-planetary origin. I will go into details later when I have written up a report of my own after a very long time of studying the phenomenon.

    What I want to discuss the now however, is how angry it makes me to see so many bunk video's on youtube. Why do people do it?

    The UFO phenomenon is very real - I know this for fact. But what adds to the ammunition of the skeptic is videos that are quite clearly crank and totally a product of CGI. Some CGI's are very good, I admit - but it is doing us no favors in even trying to exempt any position of UFO's and their possibility of extraterrestrial origin.

    So why do it?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post

    So why do it?
    Some do it for the attention. Some do it for the enjoyment of watching the gullible unthinkingly swallow the hoax, hook, line and sinker even to the point of reading things into it the creators never intended. Some do it to show off their CGI skills. Some do it because they want the general public to believe in UFOs, even if they have to manufacture them. Like any faking there is rarely a rational or logical explanation.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    13,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    I am reserved in what I believe concerning their origins, but there seems to be a lot of evidence suggesting that UFO's could be of inter-planetary origin.
    There is no credible, convincing evidence for inter-planetary origin.


    I will go into details later when I have written up a report of my own after a very long time of studying the phenomenon.
    That's good, but be aware that if it is your contention that UFO's are alien spaceships, well, it'll be an uphill battle proving that...in other words, people here will require evidence.


    ...how angry it makes me to see so many bunk video's on youtube. Why do people do it?
    Attention....delusion...I don't care to speculate as to motives...they are as varied as individuals.


    The UFO phenomenon is very real - I know this for fact.
    Well, sure it is...but evidence indicates that it has less to do with "what's up in the sky", and more to do with "what's up here". (I'm pointing to my head)


    But what adds to the ammunition of the skeptic is videos that are quite clearly crank and totally a product of CGI.
    When that's all the UFO "community" offers up as evidence, what should a skeptic do?


    Some CGI's are very good, I admit - but it is doing us no favors in even trying to exempt any position of UFO's and their possibility of extraterrestrial origin.
    The possibility of "alienness" is remote at best...nonexistant at worst.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    39,699
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    <snip>
    What I want to discuss the now however, is how angry it makes me to see so many bunk video's on youtube. Why do people do it?
    ...

    So why do it?
    Aethelwulf,

    May I make a suggestion? If that is what you want to talk about in this thread, why people fake UFO videos, then please, in your future posts, stick just to that. Do not make even passing mention of your other ideas about UFOs.

    If you stick to just that, then there can be a general discussion of that topic, and you will not incur the obligations of an advocate of non-mainstream ideas. When are you are ready to discuss these other aspects of UFOs that you believe (such as interplanetary origins), you should start a new thread on that topic. That thread will obligate you to our normal obligations for such topics.

    However, if you mention these other aspects of UFOs again, then I am afraid all of our advocacy obligations will come into effect now.

    If Aethelwulf can stick with the narrow topic, I would ask everyone else to just stick to the narrow topic too, and not ask questions about these non-mainstream ideas.

    Thank you all.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    There is no credible, convincing evidence for inter-planetary origin.




    That's good, but be aware that if it is your contention that UFO's are alien spaceships, well, it'll be an uphill battle proving that...in other words, people here will require evidence.




    Attention....delusion...I don't care to speculate as to motives...they are as varied as individuals.




    Well, sure it is...but evidence indicates that it has less to do with "what's up in the sky", and more to do with "what's up here". (I'm pointing to my head)




    When that's all the UFO "community" offers up as evidence, what should a skeptic do?




    The possibility of "alienness" is remote at best...nonexistant at worst.
    I cannot reply to your questions here, so I will do a copy and paste and create a new thread.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    1,404
    Today, many Youtube videos -- fuzzy blobs and faked sightings.
    Before that, camcorders -- fuzzy blobs and faked sightings.
    Before that, CCTV industrial and security cameras -- fuzzy blobs and faked sightings.
    Before that, 8 mm home movie cameras -- fuzzy blobs and faked sightings.
    Before that, still cameras -- fuzzy blobs and faked sightings.

    Nothing has changed. There's just more of it now and the fakes are better quality but fuzzy blobs are still just fuzzy blobs.
    "There are powers in this universe beyond anything you know. There is much you have to learn. Go to your homes. Go and give thought to the mysteries of the universe. I will leave you now, in peace." --Galaxy Being

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    9,672
    People have been faking evidence for things they believe in for a long time. They are so convinced that their opinion is right, that they see little harm in faking evidence to make others agree.

    I believe people have even been caught faking "Humans walked with Dinosaur" tracks. As in, not just misinterpreting, but one guy I read of (I think it was in this area: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/paluxy.html ) was using a chisel to try to make certain tracks look more "human". Yikes!

    Heck, Gregor Mendel was right, but some suspect he cooked the books to make his results better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel
    I don't see any Ice Giants.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    Yes... but I can't get my head round it. These guys surely believe in UFO's, or at least most of them will. Yet they can't seem to realize how damaging it is in the professional sense of the argument. If you want to state a case, you need true proper evidence. The more they do things like this, they are actually destroying the side for the believers and the cases they have brought forward and built for so many years.

    It is very disappointing.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    And the more they do it, they inadvertently make the skeptics case stronger.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,767
    There are crop circle skeptics who make crop circles just because it's very very funny to see true believers talk about all the features that couldn't POSSIBLY be man-made in them.

    Same for those who fake Bigfoor/Yeti sightings. Same for those who fake Loch Ness Monster

    And so, true, for UFO vids as well.

    I don't imagine for a second that those making these videos believe the things they are faking are actually real

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    13,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    These guys surely believe in UFO's, or at least most of them will.
    Actually, I would imagine that a lot of hoaxers don't believe. They send up a few chinese lanterns, and then sit back and watch local media fall all over itself to "sensationalize" a mundane "event".

    Not that "I" would ever do anything like that.


    No, really...I wouldn't.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    13,222
    Quote Originally Posted by djellison View Post
    There are crop circle skeptics who make crop circles just because it's very very funny to see true believers talk about all the features that couldn't POSSIBLY be man-made in them.

    Same for those who fake Bigfoor/Yeti sightings. Same for those who fake Loch Ness Monster

    And so, true, for UFO vids as well.

    I don't imagine for a second that those making these videos believe the things they are faking are actually real

    Yes...that sort of thing is exactly what I am talking about...

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by djellison View Post
    There are crop circle skeptics who make crop circles just because it's very very funny to see true believers talk about all the features that couldn't POSSIBLY be man-made in them.

    Same for those who fake Bigfoor/Yeti sightings. Same for those who fake Loch Ness Monster

    And so, true, for UFO vids as well.

    I don't imagine for a second that those making these videos believe the things they are faking are actually real
    But who are they making fun of? Surely these video's are only targeting the .... shallow end of the gene pool, shall we say?

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    Actually, I would imagine that a lot of hoaxers don't believe. They send up a few chinese lanterns, and then sit back and watch local media fall all over itself to "sensationalize" a mundane "event".

    Not that "I" would ever do anything like that.


    No, really...I wouldn't.
    I do agree many hoaxers will not believe, simply for the fact of hoaxing. But, I can also see a large majority of people who want to convince so badly, they will hoax.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    13,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    ...I can also see a large majority of people who want to convince so badly, they will hoax.
    I think you've answered your question right there.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    But, I can also see a large majority of people who want to convince so badly, they will hoax.
    If you make money off books, videos and web hits you definitely want to convince, even if only long enough to make a sale. Sort of like those guys who plant Bigfoot prints in the woods to draw in the tourists to their rural economy.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    I think you've answered your question right there.
    But I am not referring to the non-believers. I mean strictly believers. I don't understand the psychology. Maybe in the face of rationale, they have none, and they don't see their feeble attempts as damaging to the reputation of believers.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by Selenite View Post
    If you make money off books, videos and web hits you definitely want to convince, even if only long enough to make a sale. Sort of like those guys who plant Bigfoot prints in the woods to draw in the tourists to their rural economy.
    I doubt even half of them can make money of the video's. Is that something that is handed out on youtube video's, unless you paid for it? I would have thought all expenses go to youtube.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    519
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    I doubt even half of them can make money of the video's. Is that something that is handed out on youtube video's, unless you paid for it? I would have thought all expenses go to youtube.
    People were making money on UFOs through paperback books, lectures and videos long before YouTube ever came along. I'm sure some still know how and use the web as a marketing tool.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by Selenite View Post
    People were making money on UFOs through paperback books, lectures and videos long before YouTube ever came along. I'm sure some still know how and use the web as a marketing tool.
    Yes I know, but we are not really talking about the books and literature people have wrote about. There are however, since you mentioned it, many books which just by studying the history, you will find are very accurate. Who can blame people about writing about history? That has been done for centuries... since the dawn of mankind.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    9,065
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    And the more they do it, they inadvertently make the skeptics case stronger.
    In the end, though, this isn't a question of who argues better. If UFOs do exist, then the evidence will surely come out, eventually. Speaking for myself, I am very skeptical of the existence of UFOs but in fact I would prefer to see them exist, if for no other reason for scientific curiosity. So making the skeptics' case stronger isn't really a big problem, because you're no engaged in a political quest to get some policy accepted. Rather, you are trying to learn the truth, and I don't see why it matters so much whether people believe it or not. If UFOs exist, then they exist, no matter what skeptics might say.
    As above, so below

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    13,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    ...we are not really talking about the books and literature people have wrote about.
    If we are talking about "motives" for hoaxing, then we are most certainly talking about UFO books.


    Travis Walton, and Whitney Schrieber immediately come to mind.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Olympia, WA
    Posts
    27,557
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    But who are they making fun of? Surely these video's are only targeting the .... shallow end of the gene pool, shall we say?
    They are targeting people who "know the UFO phenomenon is real" and believe it without any evidence that would hold up in a court of law. Define them how you like.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,550
    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    If we are talking about "motives" for hoaxing, then we are most certainly talking about UFO books
    And in fact we just did the other day, here:
    http://www.bautforum.com/showthread....gy....-discuss
    The dog, the dog, he's at it again!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    1,321
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    I am reserved in what I believe concerning their origins, but there seems to be a lot of evidence suggesting that UFO's could be of inter-planetary origin. I will go into details later when I have written up a report of my own after a very long time of studying the phenomenon.

    What I want to discuss the now however, is how angry it makes me to see so many bunk video's on youtube. Why do people do it?

    The UFO phenomenon is very real - I know this for fact. But what adds to the ammunition of the skeptic is videos that are quite clearly crank and totally a product of CGI. Some CGI's are very good, I admit - but it is doing us no favors in even trying to exempt any position of UFO's and their possibility of extraterrestrial origin.

    So why do it?
    Dude, if you have facts about UFOs, please don't waste our time with diatribes about bogus YouTube videos--that's for charlatans and dupes!

    Just give us the facts already!

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    3,767
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    But who are they making fun of? Surely these video's are only targeting the .... shallow end of the gene pool, shall we say?
    To be honest - it's people like you - people who see some of these videos and think they're real.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    17,362
    Quote Originally Posted by Aethelwulf View Post
    What I want to discuss the now however, is how angry it makes me to see so many bunk video's on youtube. Why do people do it?
    There are the deliberate fakes of course, but there are also the people that may actually believe in what they're doing, so, for instance, they may grab a NASA spacecraft image and declare it shows an alien spaceship, but they don't research possible mundane causes. Sometimes it appears they don't have the basic knowledge to know what to research. In other cases they seem to reject any mundane explanation as a cover up. That's especially amusing when the mundane explanations can be found on the same site they must have used to retrieve the image.

    Some CGI's are very good, I admit - but it is doing us no favors in even trying to exempt any position of UFO's and their possibility of extraterrestrial origin.
    Here on BAUT, we haven't had many questions about videos faked with CGI. On the other hand, we have had a lot of questions about videos where the creator might be honest, but ignored or never considered mundane possibilities. Frankly, I think the apparently honestly made videos are a bigger issue, because they show how many ways honest people can get things wrong.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    13,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    ...there are also the people that may actually believe in what they're doing, so, for instance, they may grab a NASA spacecraft image and declare it shows an alien spaceship, but they don't research possible mundane causes.
    That sounds so familiar...

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    641
    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    That sounds so familiar...
    Thought you weren't playing these ''games''

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Denmark
    Posts
    18,406
    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    Heck, Gregor Mendel was right, but some suspect he cooked the books to make his results better: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregor_Mendel
    The Mendel case at least looks like it was a matter of a fuzzy protocol which led to excluding data that shouldn't have been excluded, which resulted in results with less statistical variation than we'd now expect for the experiment.

    I.e. not a case of actively manufacturing new evidence, but rather one of ignoring some of it.
    __________________________________________________
    Reductionist and proud of it.

    Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn. Benjamin Franklin
    Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat tails. Clarence Darrow
    A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. Mark Twain

Similar Threads

  1. Is this one a fake?
    By Jeff Root in forum Conspiracy Theories
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 2007-Jul-30, 06:05 AM
  2. Replies: 73
    Last Post: 2005-Jul-30, 04:36 AM
  3. Was it possible to fake it?
    By Sticks in forum Conspiracy Theories
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 2004-Dec-20, 07:38 PM
  4. Evidence of Rocks = Evidence of Life
    By skeptED56 in forum Life in Space
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 2004-Jun-26, 12:04 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
here
The forum is sponsored in-part by: