The Ethics of Immortality

[caveman1917]

The perfect offer of immortality:::

To begin with... this offer can be accepted or rejected... and if rejected you will live out the rest of your life as if you had never heard of this offer. If you accept... "you" will be immortal... and have the ability to program any experience and then live out that experience as if it was real... and after the experience was over you could create another experience... etc.. etc... for eternity.

Anybody see a problem with that offer?

I'd even take that deal if immortality wasn't included. Being able to fully program your own experiences still beats not being able to, even if it only lasts a normal lifetime.

[P Timmy]

I'd take that deal for sure.

If the problem you see is that you cannot die, then just program the experience of "death without end", it's the same thing after all.

Yes... with my plan "death without end" could be programed... and without that option I probably wouldn't choose immortality... and thats why I asked HenrikOlsen if he would like to include such an option in the terms of his immorality plan.

HenrikOlsen
That would be entirely dependent of the terms offered.
As I have no way of predicting which form it would take I can't make a general statement.
But I will say that just plain unaging without anything preventing change or learninglearning I'd take.

I'd even take that deal if immortality wasn't included. Being able to fully program your own experiences still beats not being able to, even if it only lasts a normal lifetime.

For sure... and also for sure... I wouldn't agree to immortality if happiness wasn't a certainty... or at least have the option to end my existence.

[Solfe]

You were given the right to pursue happiness, you weren't guaranteed you'd catch it.

That deal won't change with immortality, though it'll give you more time to try.

"Quantum Mechanics says I can walk through this *SMACK!*"
"Quantum Mechanics says I can walk through this *SMACK!*"
"Quantum Mechanics says I can walk through this *SMACK!*"


Edit - It occurs to me that we may have to rework some sayings if we all have an incredibly long lives. Such as "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results."

[Ara Pacis]

It's your experience... you can program it with or without variations of emotion... and each to their own... but personally... I doubt that I would program an experience that didn't make me happy.

Ah, so you say now, but did not state originally. I'm not sure why you continue to argue the point with me now that you've decided to agree with me.

[HenrikOlsen]

So the only terms you need to accept immortality would be... "just plain unaging without anything preventing change or learning I'd take"... or would you also want the choice to be able to end your existence?

An inability to end it is a limitation to change and would therefore mean it's a different deal from the one I said I'd accept.

[P Timmy]

An inability to end it is a limitation to change and would therefore mean it's a different deal from the one I said I'd accept.

Any changes you'd make to my plan below?

Originally Posted by P Timmy
The perfect offer of immortality:::

To begin with... this offer can be accepted or rejected... and if rejected you will live out the rest of your life as if you had never heard of this offer. If you accept... "you" will be immortal... and have the ability to program any experience and then live out that experience as if it was real... and after the experience was over you could create another experience... etc.. etc... for eternity.

[HenrikOlsen]

I'd reject it.

[R.A.F.]

It's a sweet deal... especially since we don't know if we are "real" anyway.

"We" know nothing of the sort. I do not share your opinion on the subject. Please do not imply that I do.

[Ara Pacis]

"We" know nothing of the sort. I do not share your opinion on the subject. Please do not imply that I do.

Perhaps he must as it's part of his plan for programmed happiness.

[P Timmy]

I'd reject it.

How come?

[Argos]

We are unlimitedly entitled to life. Ergo, immortality not unethical.

[P Timmy]

We are unlimitedly entitled to life. Ergo, immortality not unethical.

From where do you think this entitlement arises?

[Noclevername]

From where do you think this entitlement arises?

Why do we build wheelchairs and eyeglasses? To overcome handicaps. Mortality is a handicap. Death is a challenge to be overcome.

I'm firmly in the "rage against the dying of the light" camp.

[P Timmy]

Death is a challenge to be overcome.

I suspect that humans will be knocking on the door of success within 30 years.

[Githyanki]

So far, with the conceivable avenues to "Immortality", Man can think of, there's still not true immortality. That they only are, are paths to life extensions and not truly cheating death. Machines malfunction thereby killing the cyborg and accidents happen, killing the eternal-youth.

In fiction, I think of a handful of cybernetic-immortals, centuries old, controlling millions of non-immortals humans in mega-cities / arcologies. The cybernetic-immortals come from the wealthiest people, centuries ago that were able to have their organs cloned etc. The immortals we will see in the future and the ones that can buy the best medical-care.

[Ara Pacis]

Currently, we're not on the path to immortality but to delayed senescence.

[Jens]

Why do we build wheelchairs and eyeglasses? To overcome handicaps. Mortality is a handicap. Death is a challenge to be overcome.

That's a valid position in my mind, but the question was about the use by Argos of "entitlement." I also find it odd to suggest that we have a "right" to immortality. If it's something to work toward, fine.

[Solfe]

I don't see immortality as even possible, therefore it couldn't be a right.

If it was limited "to live a non-specific long duration, including an incredible duration of time", then I guess I would say you are at least entitled to exist. That is not much of an entitlement.

[Argos]

That's a valid position in my mind, but the question was about the use by Argos of "entitlement." I also find it odd to suggest that we have a "right" to immortality. If it's something to work toward, fine.

Self-preservation is the 'prime directive'. IŽll try to be immortal [and objections to it are nowhere to be found in the law of the land]; IŽll die trying.

[Ara Pacis]

Self-preservation is the 'prime directive'. IŽll try to be immortal [and objections to it are nowhere to be found in the law of the land]; IŽll die trying.

Not really, many organisms, including humans, will sacrifice themselves for their offspring.

[aquitaine]

Not really, many organisms, including humans, will sacrifice themselves for their offspring.

Yes, and so to remove that temptation I chose not to reproduce.

[Ara Pacis]

Yes, and so to remove that temptation I chose not to reproduce.

Evolution in Action!

[Noclevername]

In fiction, I think of a handful of cybernetic-immortals, centuries old, controlling millions of non-immortals humans in mega-cities / arcologies. The cybernetic-immortals come from the wealthiest people, centuries ago that were able to have their organs cloned etc. The immortals we will see in the future and the ones that can buy the best medical-care.

Unless it's achieved via a method such as self-replicating medical nanobots, then immortality could literally be handed out on the streets. Statistically there would have to be some of the mega-rich with enough compassion to share.

[Ara Pacis]

Unless it's achieved via a method such as self-replicating medical nanobots, then immortality could literally be handed out on the streets. Statistically there would have to be some of the mega-rich with enough compassion to share.

Unless it required very expensive procedures or very expensive periodically-administered drugs.

[aquitaine]

Unless it's achieved via a method such as self-replicating medical nanobots, then immortality could literally be handed out on the streets. Statistically there would have to be some of the mega-rich with enough compassion to share.

Not entirely, there is still the matter of paying off the R&D costs for such a project. Your computer's CPU only has a few dollars worth of materials in it, what makes it cost what it does is the architecture and fabrication IP.


Plus other stuff that Ara mentioned.

[Argos]

Self-preservation is the 'prime directive'. IŽll try to be immortal [and objections to it are nowhere to be found in the law of the land]; IŽll die trying.

Not really, many organisms, including humans, will sacrifice themselves for their offspring.

Well yeah, you may have a point. As a childless person I tend to overlook this. As a childless person IŽm free to go ahead with my immortality plans.