Order of Kilopi
Originally Posted by Strange
Well the leprechaun I talk to say that IPWU's really cause gravity. Care to cite any of these "scientists"? Care to show us real peer reviewed papers in the relevant scientific disciplines that support their claims? Note that the "top 10 problems" you've linked to is about as credible as a 6 year old that can't properly add complaining that calculus is wrong.
Order of Kilopi
OK. So the faster than light recession is an illusion - caused by some unexplained mechanism.
And the overall recession (apparent expansion) is just "random". We have just caught them in a moment in time when they happen to be rushing away from us.?
Get rid of that pesky contradictory evidence with a quick spray of Evidence-be-Gone(tm) and a wave of the hand.
Order of Kilopi
Special Relativity tells us nothing can travel through space faster then c
Cosmic inflation causes objects to recede from use faster then c (note this doesn't go against SR becuase of the way inflation works)
Thus you have to explain what causes red shifts with z values > 1 without breaking SR or you have to throw out SR.
Are you claiming red shift is "tired light"? We can point you to plenty of evidence against "tired light" if you want.
Banned
How about you start answering some of my questions. You asked me the question about particles being shook in an inside container. I have explained these motions are completely random and yet you think they should display motions which are distributed evenly in every direction.
You blame me for having a bad understanding of classical physics, but you haven't even addressed my post yet. You are skimming through every comment I have made like you are offended somehow and trying to punch holes in any arguement.
Order of Kilopi
Can you explain what you have in mind here? Because, to me, "these motions are completely random" sounds as though there should be a roughly equal distribution of velocities of all magnitudes and in all directions.
But you seem to have a different definition of random: "receding away from a single point with a velocity that increases with distance".
Order of Kilopi
I've heard there is a pot of gold at the end of a rain bow. Guess what! It isn't true...you can never reach the end of a rain bow!
If you want to bring these up then come up with something more then a baseless claim. Show us the data. Show us the observation of any object that appears older then 13.75billion years old. Show us how a temperature of 2.725°K is "a limiting temperature of stars". I challenge you to find one "star" any where near 2.725°K. You might as well say 2.725°K is a limiting temperature of hot dogs. It makes as much sense.
Banned
Wayne, Inflation has long finished. It only happened for a very short amount of time.
Stop criticizing if you yourself don't know the theory!!!!!!
Banned
You don't seem to have a grasp of what constitutes a random system. Chaos can take hold and your system can look completely different to the way it started. Evenly distributed motions in a box is a very idealized concept. It almost should never happen.
Administrator
Given all your activity since this post, I'll assume you do not want this thread closed.
Banned
No offense, but you wait till now to ask this? It was not my activity, I am simply replying like a gentleman.
Order of Kilopi
And this is the exact tactic taken by creationists. Their intention is to discuss the problems of evolution. Which usually amounts to their woefully ignorant understanding of the theory of evolution or their willfully misleading statements about evolution and how creationism is a better fit but you're not allowed to point out to them any problems with their "model"
You've just admitted in post #72
bolding mine
that out of the top 10 problems with the big bang you didn't understand like 8 of them and the other 2 we've yet to see any evidence for. So its just hand waving and yelling about a problem that there doesn't seem to be any real evidence for.
Banned
How about you address how you think the inflationary period is still happening, and how it accounts for the superluminal speeds of distant observable galaxies... then could you address how a random particles in a box should have evenly distributed motions?
You don't seem to have a clear cut of the basics. You seem like a bit of a hypocrite.
Order of Kilopi
red shift isn't caused by inflation. Most red shift is caused by expansion. Inflation refers to a period of time early in the universe before stars could even form. Expansion is what is causing the red shift we see. Both are basically space getting larger.
Order of Kilopi
But the data says objects are receding faster then light. But if there is no cosmic expansion then you have to explain the z values >= 1 and there is no known process which could cause this that doesn't violate SR.
Vulcan Administrator
I said "virtually perfect." If you wanted to compare the CMBR spectrum and a perfect black-body spectrum on a scale enough to show there's a difference, you'd need a piece of paper the size of a basketball court. At journal size, the error bars are smaller than the width of the line drawn. That's close enough to perfect for me. And the main point is that no one's shown a way for the steady-state to generate the same curve.
Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.
Banned
Would you like stop jumping stepping stones then --- you are rushing through as many posts of mine as you can you aren't even making coherent sentances now. You look desperate just to prove me wrong for some reason.
You said: ''Cosmic inflation causes objects to recede from use faster then c''
We where discussing why I believe distant observable galaxies appear to be moving at superluminal speeds.
I am well aware of the physical principles of science, those being relativity - that matter cannot move at superluminal speeds, so stop talking to me as if I don't. I have said, this is an illusion - the rate or speed, they appear to be receeding at. How can you muddle that with ''cosmic inflation causes objects to receed faster than light?''
That was not on the discussion. Plus, you have more questions I have asked you, like how you think particles in a box with totally random dynamics should always have evenly distributed motions. Please think hard about your answer.
Order of Kilopi
Virtually perfect != perfect. You are complaining about something that is 1 part in 10,000 not being perfect. We don't expect the CMBR to be perfect. It would be even more troubling if the CMBR was uniform to 1 part in 1,000,000,000 even though that it would be a more perfect black body then.
Banned
Data is just data wayne, its a bunch of numbers.
theories is what attempts to explain data. Objects receeding faster than light is the data, the theory is that spacetime is expanding. I am challenging the theory, not the data.
Order of Kilopi
So what in your view causes distant galaxies to have a higher red shift then closer galaxies? Are you proposing a "tired light theory"?
Order of Kilopi
So are you saying that everything receding from a single point, with velocity proportional to distance, is more likely than a distribution of velocities and directions (even if not "evenly" distributed)? And so it just pure chance that the universe appears to be expanding?
Banned
So you did. With Waynes rush hour of posts, it's hard to keep track of each sentance I read.
Banned
Read post 106 and stop choosing which questions you wish to answer. I will answer yours when you have, like a civil person, answered mine.
Banned
No. Because there is no center in the universe. Even in a steady state where spacetime is eternal.
Order of Kilopi
And your explanation is "chance" combined with some undefined "illusion" for the apparent velocities greater than c.
Pretty convincing...
Order of Kilopi
Do you understand randomness? Shrink your self down to the size of an molecule. Look at all the gas molecules around you. The vectors of all the other atoms and molecules would have a pretty uniform distribution.
Contrast this to what we see in our universe where almost all objects in our universe are receding away from us an their recession velocity is almost exactly a linear function of their distance from us.
Order of Kilopi
I very carefully avoided the use of the word center. However, it does look as if everything is moving away from us in a distribution that seems anything but random.
Banned
All due respect, but I will say again, I was put on the spot today to explain a theory which I haven't even developed. Theories might jump into peoples minds like that but I need to work out details before I can answer what things like ''the illusion'' might be. The intention of this thread was not to discuss personal theories of mine, especially undeveloped ones.
Banned
Not everthing is though, which is the snag.
Banned
It's you who doesn't seem to understand the word ''random''.
For there to always be a ''evenly distributed motion'' doesn't seem very random to me - in fact, to make sure your objects are always observing an equal amount of systems moving to and from is a highly controlled system indeed. At times you would expect your chaotic system to do quite the opposite.
Order of Kilopi
but you are using it as support against a big bang.
bold underline mine
You can't claim "Big Bang can't even for a moment contemplate these voids" then when it is pointed out how the Big Band can explain these voids say "Well that wasn't my original argument". It is part of your argument. If you don't understand how something supports your idea or works against the idea you are arguing about then you shouldn't use that argument.
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