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Thread: I Know Astromark Was Already On Thin Ice...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    ... Put your money where your mouth is, see how much you like dealing with certain ongoing behaviors and attitudes. ...
    Just to be clear to everyone else... Buttercup is using the word "money" allegorically. The financial cost of starting a new board is low. The burden on your patience can be high. On the plus side, I think the effort put into trying to be fair and understanding, and getting feedback when you are perceived not to be has been a very maturing and character-building process. It's not all downside.
    Forming opinions as we speak

  2. #62
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    More stressfull that riding herd on a pack of furniture movers in a three wing mansion?

    And don't get me started on the modeling school! (I had to work hard to prevent the creation of the dumbest babies ever!)
    Time wasted having fun is not time wasted - Lennon
    (John, not the other one.)

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
    This implies that you, as a shop owner...
    I had several comments on this statement, but I think they were all covered on the posts since Gillian's experience with a kleptomaniac.

    Quote Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
    In this case, BAUT is "just" a web forum, and there are others where astromark can post (e.g. Tom's) so (including the extra work astromark was causing us moderators) I do think we as a community are better off without him.
    Perhaps, but that's hardly the point. Strictly speaking a society is probably better off without the homeless, that doesn't mean it would be moral to put them out of the country.
    I think that is stretching an analogy too far. I don't consider a community to be the same as a society. Actually; my definition of community doesn't apply to a forum. I consider a forum to be more like an organization. (In essence, they are sub catagories of a society)
    The organization can decide who they want in and who they won't. Even if all organizations lock them out, government and public facilities still exist to allow them to continue with thier life. (or other websites exist where they can get information)

    With that being said, it may clear up what I'm about to say about this:
    Quote Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
    Is it really impossible for a community to accept a member that they know will probably always slightly end up on the wrong side of the rules when they can be reasonably certain that that member's intentions are good...
    Sure, it's possible to accept, just like organizations will tolerate certain behaviors outside of the norm if they have other pluses. (The organization I belong to does sanction troublemakers without kicking them out. Basically; they can not hold office or work with sensitive information or act as a spokesperson for the organization)

    The difference I see with BAUT is what I see is the function of BAUT. We are more than just an organization of like minded people. We are also exposed to the world as a source of information. Yes, all forums are exposed, but a lot of them do not care if they appeal to the public as a whole.
    Because of this aim, we try to keep things clean.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose View Post
    As for long term suspensions (and/or unbanning), my view is that when the point is reached where a long-term action becomes necessary, I don't feel it's appropriate that such a member be permitted to return without demonstrating a clear commitment (more than just the intention) of altering the behavior that caused the situation.
    How can a person demonstrate altering his behaviour if he is not allowed to post?
    I'm not saying to let him roam free to be rude to newbies. But requiring a person to first demonstrate having changed their posting behaviour before being allowed to post again doesn't add up somewhere, well i suppose we can all agree he's not tachyonic
    That's what long-term suspensions would accomplish, actually allowing a chance every once in a while to make that demonstration.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
    How can a person demonstrate altering his behaviour if he is not allowed to post?
    Moose said "demonstrating a clear commitment", not demonstrating altered behaviour. And apparently at least one person has been able to convincingly show such a commitment. I don't know how many have tried and failed, and I can't remember if there has been a recent* case of someone being unbanned after a year, and re-banned.

    *) not counting the BA/UT merger amnesty.
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
    How can a person demonstrate altering his behaviour if he is not allowed to post?
    I'm not saying to let him roam free to be rude to newbies. But requiring a person to first demonstrate having changed their posting behaviour before being allowed to post again doesn't add up somewhere, well i suppose we can all agree he's not tachyonic
    That's what long-term suspensions would accomplish, actually allowing a chance every once in a while to make that demonstration.
    Perhaps we can use his posts on other forums?

    http://www.spacetimeandtheuniverse.c...html#post14138

    I don't think he will change.

    (NB: I'm not saying a persons posts on one forum should actually affect their membership on another forum. I'm just pointing out that this is a clear case where the poster is making their "behaviour" clear.)
    I don't see any Ice Giants.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    Perhaps we can use his posts on other forums?

    http://www.spacetimeandtheuniverse.c...html#post14138

    I don't think he will change.

    (NB: I'm not saying a persons posts on one forum should actually affect their membership on another forum. I'm just pointing out that this is a clear case where the poster is making their "behaviour" clear.)
    Point taken, i guess my assessment of the situation was off quite a bit.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
    How can a person demonstrate altering his behaviour if he is not allowed to post?
    Not to sound callous about this -- I don't ban casually -- but I can't really see how this is my problem.
    "Words that make questions may not be questions at all."
    - Neil deGrasse Tyson, answering loaded question in ten words or less
    at a 2010 talk MCed by Stephen Colbert.

  9. #69
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    Isn't that what Peter Parker said just before ... ?
    Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
    Isaac Asimov

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  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    Perhaps we can use his posts on other forums?

    http://www.spacetimeandtheuniverse.c...html#post14138

    I don't think he will change.

    (NB: I'm not saying a persons posts on one forum should actually affect their membership on another forum. I'm just pointing out that this is a clear case where the poster is making their "behaviour" clear.)
    Is that Tommac's website and is that the same "Grapes" that is here?

    and is Astrotech "Tommac"?

    Curious

    Pete

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by peter eldergill View Post
    Is that Tommac's website and is that the same "Grapes" that is here?

    and is Astrotech "Tommac"?

    Curious

    Pete
    I think that would be Y, Y, N
    As above, so below

  12. #72
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    Heh I like direct, no nonsense answers

    Thanks

    Pete

  13. #73
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    Tommac here, is Tom there.

    Some people there, such as grapes, astrotech, mugaliens, neverfly, astromark etc use the same name there as they do/did here. Their member list, of course, is not a complete overlap with ours.

    (Other user name trivia: astrotech thinks that on BAUT I am a sock of 01101001 (or vice versa).)
    I don't see any Ice Giants.

  14. #74
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    So that explains why we don't see Binary Man anymore, you got sick of the charade.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by caveman1917 View Post
    How can a person demonstrate altering his behaviour if he is not allowed to post?
    By changing the behavior before it's too late to post.

    He adequately demonstrated a complete and total inability to change his posting behavior, he's gone, not our problem anymore.
    And his posting behavior WAS a problem before he got kicked out for not playing well with others.

    As for the kleptomaniac, I have absolutely no problem with him being unable to enter any shops, including food shops. If it's at that uncontrollable a level he belongs institutionalized. Unless you're willing to pay the shopkeepers for what he steals, you have no right to force them to accept him.
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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose View Post
    Not to sound callous about this -- I don't ban casually -- but I can't really see how this is my problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    Isn't that what Peter Parker said just before ... ?
    It stopped Uncle Ben from quoting that platitude ad infinitum, didn't it?
    "Words that make questions may not be questions at all."
    - Neil deGrasse Tyson, answering loaded question in ten words or less
    at a 2010 talk MCed by Stephen Colbert.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    By changing the behavior before it's too late to post.
    Truth. Seriously, the time for reconsidering one's behavior is at the very first warning. Even if you don't think your behavior's a problem, or much of one, that first warning is an explanation of what we will be enforcing. There be shoals. Staying that course will not have a happy outcome.
    "Words that make questions may not be questions at all."
    - Neil deGrasse Tyson, answering loaded question in ten words or less
    at a 2010 talk MCed by Stephen Colbert.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    (Other user name trivia: astrotech thinks that on BAUT I am a sock of 01101001 (or vice versa).)
    Grapes, didn't you point out a few months ago that someone had been accusing me of being a sock of Astromark?
    "Words that make questions may not be questions at all."
    - Neil deGrasse Tyson, answering loaded question in ten words or less
    at a 2010 talk MCed by Stephen Colbert.

  19. #79
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    we're all sockpuppets of Candy. She's the great puppet master.

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frog march View Post
    we're all sockpuppets of Candy. She's the great puppet master.
    HA!

    I think I may have inadvetantly drailed this thread. Funny, though.

    Pete

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moose View Post
    Grapes, didn't you point out a few months ago that someone had been accusing me of being a sock of Astromark?
    I can't comment on this, it's too personal.

    Doh!

  22. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigDon View Post
    More stressfull that riding herd on a pack of furniture movers in a three wing mansion?

    And don't get me started on the modeling school! (I had to work hard to prevent the creation of the dumbest babies ever!)
    The second one sounds like a great basis for a Judd Apatow movie.
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  23. #83
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    Ha Ha!

    Seriously though, I never thought of Astromark as mean spirited. Frankly I'm surprised that "TheJim" lasted as long as he did.

  24. #84
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    I think that David Bohm believed that all electrons in the universe may in fact be the same electron. If he was correct, then we may indeed all be sock puppets of one another. Though I don't think that necessarily means we should all be banned together.
    As above, so below

  25. #85
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    'Fess up, Jens. You're just trying to claim Swift's post count.
    "Words that make questions may not be questions at all."
    - Neil deGrasse Tyson, answering loaded question in ten words or less
    at a 2010 talk MCed by Stephen Colbert.

  26. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jens View Post
    Though I don't think that necessarily means we should all be banned together.
    We will all go together when we go.
    All suffuse with an incandescent glow.
    No one will have the endurance
    To collect on his insurance,
    Lloyd's of London will be loaded when they go.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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  27. #87
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    Thank goodness I'm wearing my dancing shoes today.

  28. #88
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    The astromark related topics seem to have been dealt with, so perhaps time to close this thread as it's become something of an off topic babbling thing.

    As usual, report this post, to provide a reason, if you wish for it to be opened again.
    I don't see any Ice Giants.

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