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Thread: I really do believe we are on to something

  1. #1
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    I really do believe we are on to something

    I am an otolaryngologist on sabbatical. I have a particular interest in Meniere's Disease as it has been a problem for me. A new colleague mentioned to me earlier this week that Alan Shepard was diagnosed with Meniere's and then was said to have been cured by way of surgery. That simply cannot be. If they let him go to the moon with such a problem it would be courting disaster. I believe this story was fabricated as do several of my peers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisENT View Post
    I am an otolaryngologist on sabbatical. I have a particular interest in Meniere's Disease as it has been a problem for me. A new colleague mentioned to me earlier this week that Alan Shepard was diagnosed with Meniere's and then was said to have been cured by way of surgery. That simply cannot be.
    What can't be?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisENT View Post
    If they let him go to the moon with such a problem it would be courting disaster.
    Well, if the operation was succesful and he's cured, it's not much of a problem anymore, is it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisENT View Post
    A new colleague mentioned to me earlier this week that Alan Shepard was diagnosed with Meniere's and then was said to have been cured by way of surgery. That simply cannot be.
    Really? Why not? The surgical procedure for doing so is now well known and documented. Do you have something more concrete than your assertion that it cannot work?

    If they let him go to the moon with such a problem it would be courting disaster.
    Why? He had the surgery, was monitoredm showed good recovery, and was cleared for flight status. What exactly would be courting disaster?

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    Who's "we"?

    I just saw the dramatisation of these events on the Earth to the Moon DVD set. It sounds like he was rapidly heading for a career ending medical problem until his surgery was proven effective. Even then, his return to flight duty did not seem assured, perhaps because of his age.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisENT View Post
    If they let him go to the moon with such a problem it would be courting disaster. I believe this story was fabricated as do several of my peers.
    They didn't let him go to the moon with such a problem. It was fixed via surgery. So the problem didn't exist anymore.

    So where's your conspiracy?

  6. #6
    So when the Mayo Clinic says surgery is an option for treating Ménière's disease, they're lying? Please answer my question, ChrisENT.

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    Hi, Patrick/fattydash/DoctorTea/etc.,etc. You really should not have followed up your empty threats against astronauts and engineers who never heard of you (and never will) with empty threats against the forum that indulged your childish rants for so long.

    Funny, though, I can find nearly two hundred articles in PubMed discussing the success of this treatment (not "cure") for Meniere's disease, going back to 1962. You are not an otolaryngologist, and you do not know what you are talking about, and I can tell that even though I am an engineer, not a doctor.

    I don't know what compels you to create all these sock-puppets and make so many blatantly false, self-contradictory, and incompetent claims, but I suggest you get counseling for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sts60 View Post
    Hi, Patrick/fattydash/DoctorTea/etc.,etc.
    sts60 figured it out. ChrisENT was a sock puppet and has been banned. He will not be answering your questions (if we can help it). Go ahead and discuss Alan Shepard's medical condition if you wish. Don't get too far off track and keep it polite, even if we are talking about sock puppets.
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    If I may push a reality based tangent... In the DVD Earth to the Moon, Shepard seems both very driven and very concerned that he would never get his chance to walk on the moon. Was this an accurate depiction of Shepard's situation and attitude?

    Assuming it is good depiction, does anyone care to offer an opinion as to what was Shepard's biggest hurdle to going on a moon mission? Age, illness, training, all three or maybe something else?
    Solfe

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    Looks pretty much like everything that needed saying has already been said, including several refutations of the OP's claim.
    I would suggest just letting this dead horse stay dead.
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    Just as a point of interest, I have Menieres, although a milder case than Shepard apparently did. It's not debilitating, just annoying. I've never needed medication nor surgery to manage it (although I do have to watch my sodium and avoid alcohol and caffeine.)

    The depiction on From the Earth to the Moon (the episode Shepard has in his driveway) is accurate enough, as far as it goes, although the depiction lacks a few details.

    * The tinnitus (the high pitched tone) is common, and I do get it.
    * Add in a sort of blurry tunnel vision that isn't depicted, although the slight greying/dimming of the world that was depicted in the car scene is accurate enough.
    * There's a throbbing of awareness; basically waves of dizzy (sort of) that throb in time with my pulse.
    * I'm fully aware of what's happening, both to me and around me. There's no loss of time or anything.
    * The sagging and looking dazed is probably the most visible sign, and is quite accurate, but (at least for me) is resistible in an emergency. At least I think so. I've never really felt much need to try. It feels like I'm browning out a little, although I know I won't black out or anything.
    * Mine lasts no longer than the driveway attack scene. I'm 100% again within 15 seconds or so.

    I've never experienced nausea nor that seizure-like episode FtEttM depicted at the drill site.

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    If the condition could not be treated, then why pretend to send Alan Shepard to the Moon?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glom View Post
    If the condition could not be treated, then why pretend to send Alan Shepard to the Moon?
    Sigh. What does it say about Apollo Hoaxers, that their pretend experts don't even have basic intelligence and logic skills.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    If I may push a reality based tangent... In the DVD Earth to the Moon, Shepard seems both very driven and very concerned that he would never get his chance to walk on the moon. Was this an accurate depiction of Shepard's situation and attitude?

    Assuming it is good depiction, does anyone care to offer an opinion as to what was Shepard's biggest hurdle to going on a moon mission? Age, illness, training, all three or maybe something else?
    It's a pretty accurate description. I've been privileged to meet both Shepard and his co-pilot Ed Mitchell, and the depiction of Shepard as working like a dog to get to the Moon pretty much sums up my opinion of him. Shepard felt alienated from the rest of the astronaut corps for several reasons: his wealth, his having been out of the loop for so long, his administrative power over them, and also his age. He knew that he had a lot to make up for in order to be considered on par with the rest of the astronauts. Not only did he have to overcome his illness and age, but he felt he had to be more proficient than any of the other astronauts.

    Michell, commenting after Shepard's death, said that when problems with Antares stared to arise and it looked like he landing might be iffy, he felt like Shepard was going to land that thing at all costs or die trying. No way would he have he have aborted.

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    So overcome mental health problems wasn't part of the journey obviously.

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    I just read about this in Chaikin's 'A Man on the Moon'. Incredible book BTW. It's given me increased appreciation and respect for the US space program (not to mention a lot more knowledge). Apparantly the surgery at that time was considered somewhat experimental, and no guarantee it would be successful. Luckily it was. The book also discussed swapping Shepard (and team) in command of Apollo 13 with Lovell (and team) who was originally slated for Apollo 14. Apparantly it was thought that Shepard would benefit from more simulator training.

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    Somewhat OT, I find it interesting that John Glenn was considered such a national treasure that the US wouldn't dare risk his life with another spaceflight (during Apollo), but not so much for Alan Shepard.
    I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extravoice View Post
    Somewhat OT, I find it interesting that John Glenn was considered such a national treasure that the US wouldn't dare risk his life with another spaceflight (during Apollo), but not so much for Alan Shepard.
    Glenn was Mr. Clean Marine.

    He was also the one that went into orbit. Shepard's exercise looked a bit of a wimpish endeavour compared to Gagarin's feat a few weeks earlier. Glenn was truly the moment the Americans entered the big boys' league.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Glom View Post
    Glenn was Mr. Clean Marine.

    He was also the one that went into orbit. Shepard's exercise looked a bit of a wimpish endeavour compared to Gagarin's feat a few weeks earlier. Glenn was truly the moment the Americans entered the big boys' league.
    Glenn thought he should be the first American into space, not Shepard. Good (for him) that he wasn't as he has received more accolades than any other Astronaut. (well, with the exception of Armstrong...no one will ever "out shine" him.)



    Quote Originally Posted by Moose View Post
    Just as a point of interest, I have Menieres, although a milder case than Shepard apparently did. It's not debilitating, just annoying.
    I don't have Menieres, but I do have Tinnitus in my left ear, (from too many rock concerts as a lad), and it can be very annoying. Over the years I have "learned" to mostly ignore it, but I can hear the high pitched tone at any time, just by thinking about it.
    Last edited by R.A.F.; 2012-Mar-30 at 03:12 PM. Reason: fixed coding

  21. #21
    Alan Shepard escaped Menieres but died of leukemia, you can't win dam it

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    Quote Originally Posted by lok32 View Post
    Alan Shepard escaped Menieres but died of leukemia, you can't win dam it
    Personally, I'd call walking on the Moon, winning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisENT View Post
    I am an otolaryngologist on sabbatical. I have a particular interest in Meniere's Disease as it has been a problem for me. A new colleague mentioned to me earlier this week that Alan Shepard was diagnosed with Meniere's and then was said to have been cured by way of surgery. That simply cannot be. If they let him go to the moon with such a problem it would be courting disaster. I believe this story was fabricated as do several of my peers.
    The other thing that is simply not believable about the Shepard story Chris is that they say Shepard's hearing loss was corrected with the operation. It wasn't just the vertigo that was eliminated , but his 40 decibel hearing loss problem (left ear) was completely fixed. Simply unbelievable and therefore simply not true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaudiaT View Post
    The other thing that is simply not believable about the Shepard story Chris is that they say Shepard's hearing loss was corrected with the operation. It wasn't just the vertigo that was eliminated , but his 40 decibel hearing loss problem (left ear) was completely fixed. Simply unbelievable and therefore simply not true.
    You don't happen to be an otolaryngologist too, do you?
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    No, I am a microbiologist. I do work in a medical center.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaudiaT View Post
    No, I am a microbiologist. I do work in a medical center.
    Welcome back, ClaudiaT(ea).

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    Quote Originally Posted by ClaudiaT View Post
    Simply unbelievable and therefore simply not true.
    "I can't believe it, so it must not be true" is of course irrelevant.


    I know you won't be responding, but thanks for a perfect example of how Moon hoax believers "think".

    Most enlightening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    Personally, I'd call walking on the Moon, winning.
    #winning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    "I can't believe it, so it must not be true" is of course irrelevant.

    I know you won't be responding, but thanks for a perfect example of how Moon hoax believers "think".

    Most enlightening.
    Also, that someone would come up with an argument like this in the first place says a lot about the style of argumentation. If the flights were fake, what could NASA possibly gain by faking something so irrelevant? It makes perfect sense that Shepard would try a new procedure if the flights were real, knowing he would be grounded if it couldn't be improved. But if the flights were fake, they would want to avoid faking anything that they didn't need to.

    If "T" is serious about these arguments, not just doing these for fun, it looks like "T" assumes NASA must be lying about everything, even when it would be (if we accept the general conspiracy argument) detrimental to them.

    By the way, regarding the disease:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0001721/

    It states:

    Hearing loss may occur. Usually the hearing loss is only in one ear, but it may affect both ears.

    A person's hearing tends to recover between attacks but gets worse over time
    So there would be nothing exceptional about hearing improving after an attack. And from here:

    http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6885,5267242

    There's a statement that Shepard felt better within days after the surgery, and that his hearing improved to near normal. It does not say that it was completely fixed as T claimed.

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