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Thread: The Covenant (from Halo) vs The Empire (From Star Wars)

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    The Covenant (from Halo) vs The Empire (From Star Wars)

    Yes, another one of those threads that pits two universes against each other.

    A wormhole opens connecting the galaxy far far away with the milky way. It is the year 2552 in milkyway and the Empire Strikes Back timeline in the Star Wars galaxy. A war breaks out between the Covenant and the Empire. All other powers remain neutral including the Flood, UNSC and the Rebel Alliance. Who wins?

    yes, this is a slighly different version(copy paste & edit) of the ST vs SW thread, only with this, the two powers are a bit more balanced. With that said, Movies/Games over-rule any other literature or information, but information in said literature that does not conflict with the Movies/Game is fair game.
    Hi! I'm Liz!

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    Re: The Covenant (from Halo) vs The Empire (From Star Wars)

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Helmet
    All other powers remain neutral including the Flood
    You know, you're really spoiling things here. Can you imagine how funny it would be, seeing a bunch of Stormtroopers being chased down a corridor by Flood? They're like deadly Tribbles!

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    Are the Covenant in Legendary mode?
    Thats the only way to play.

    I'll have to let you know after playing Halo2.

    Though my initial guess would be the covenant.
    The empire ruled by fear like the old roman empire. They relied on the
    masses not getting together as one and fighting back.

    The covenant just wipe out the population and move on.

    o.k they had the Death Stars(tm) but lets face it they were a bit lame.

    Then theres the Plasma Sword V Light Sabre...

    Does the Covenant have access to the Halo network?

    You say that the flood remain neutral but my take on them is they were more of a biological hazard rather then a force. They thought of them just sitting back on their rotting behinds watching the action just don't seem right. More likely they would be as the game and would attack both sides.

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    Covenant easyily will win against all. They were kicking the butts of the UNSC in the novels (4th book might change that, but we have to see). According to the books for the Halo universe any of the larger battleships of the Covenant can destroy all life on the surface of a planet with their plasma weapons. But their Troops are not as cunning or smart as the humans of the empire or UNSC. They basically copy what they see and use it to the best of their knoledge. Also they have the ability to make pinpoint jumps across systems that are arguably better then the empires ability.

    The UNSC could easily kick the butts of the Empire. Their ships are fitted for war against the covenant, and other advanced weaponry. They have a limited number of fighter ships, but i can bet carrier class cruisers would come into production prety quick. The only problem is that in the books and game thier ships and weapons work with a knoledge of the laws of physics. The Empire hs the ability to avoid that with their ships by allowing them to work like airplanes. So there is a disadvantage there. :-P

    Then comes the A.I. systems of the UNSC ships. They are actually smart and if more3 of the Cortana level are created, can actualy improve on any captured technology they see.
    And of course the UNSC spartanprograms. Storm troopers move over, here are the real super troops. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey
    Covenant easyily will win against all.
    What about the Damned from Doom 3? With gibbing turned off, and the zombie reborn mod :P

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    Nah, the way the deamons are killed so easily by a damed shotgun they will loose. Much better to send in torpedoes loaded with tribbles and tons of food. The torpedo buries into the hull of a ship and releases the tribbles into it with tons of food.

    Muuahahaha tribbled to death.

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    I don't remember if the UNSC use shields or not. How powerful are their ships and weapon systems?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tjm220
    I don't remember if the UNSC use shields or not. How powerful are their ships and weapon systems?
    No sheilds just regular old armor. But they carry powerful ship[ based weapons. Their main gun is a magnetically acelerated slug that can tear throught the ships and shields of the covenant, But it is slow loading and usually they only carry one or two. The planets can carry much larger versions that could take out larger class ships and fire more rapidly.

    They also have other ammo based weapons like machine guns and artillery. Near the end of the novels they gained a captured covenant cruiser and modified its laser weaposn system. I am sure if they get some techs on the info gained from it they could create them.

    They also started to work with shielding systems for their spartans and probobly the ships too eventually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey
    Quote Originally Posted by tjm220
    I don't remember if the UNSC use shields or not. How powerful are their ships and weapon systems?
    No sheilds just regular old armor. But they carry powerful ship[ based weapons. Their main gun is a magnetically acelerated slug that can tear throught the ships and shields of the covenant, But it is slow loading and usually they only carry one or two. The planets can carry much larger versions that could take out larger class ships and fire more rapidly.

    They also have other ammo based weapons like machine guns and artillery. Near the end of the novels they gained a captured covenant cruiser and modified its laser weaposn system. I am sure if they get some techs on the info gained from it they could create them.

    They also started to work with shielding systems for their spartans and probobly the ships too eventually.
    OK. I don't see how they can take on the Empire and win though. Armor+ray shielding+particle shielding not to mention the energy weapon systems employed and the galactic scale industrial base etc...

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    I think I can end this.....

    The empire got them selfs done over by EWOKS!

    I mean come on. 3 foot teddy bears with stone age tech?
    Not a good sign.



    [EDIT]
    The only trouble that an Ewok would give a Covenant even a grunt would be it's fur getting stuck in its throat!

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    Covenant v. Empire is a fair comparison, but UNSC v. Empire is a bad comparison. They've only just reached out to the stars, own only a handful of planets. In fact the only way they could withstand the covenant for so long is to keep the location of their homeworlds secret...

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    I haven't read or played Halo but the snippets I'm seeing here of the technology shows high levels of bogon flux. Part of the purpose of an electromagnetic cannon/rail gun is that you can put cheap metallic slugs in it. Having all that expensive coils and switching but only a couple tuna cans for it sounds like poor planning. And read Mike Wong on plasma weapons. Not the greatest choice for beam weapons combat, if you accept his arguments.

    For a good match to the Federation you don't have to look far (Constitution-class against White Star, anyone?) The Empire takes a little more shopping around. I'd look to "Doc" Smith for forces that are properly galactic, plus have the proper fire-power. The Weberverse might be able to throw numbers at a single fleet engagement but they'd lose the war.

    One I'd like to see is Empire invasion force v. the "Federation" of James H. Schmitz. No organized, monolithic force ever showing itself. But "Tuvela effect" on every durn world Imperial troops took on. It would probably end in victory for the Empire -- but they'd have a lot of grey hairs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nomuse
    For a good match to the Federation you don't have to look far (Constitution-class against White Star, anyone?)
    I've a better, but similar idea:

    Quote Originally Posted by Delenn
    Only one Human Captain has ever survived battle with a Minbari fleet.

    He is behind me, you are in front of me. If you value your lives, be somewhere else.

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    Dorsai versus The Empire might be an interesting match. Or Pak Protectors.

    I don't think the Dorsai have the numbers, then again, they probably wouldn't need them (they have been known to subdue planets with a handful of soldiers). They'd also be nigh immune to Empire terror tactics.

    Pak have the same problem though. Probably not enough of them. But considering what they can do with so few (I mean, they built the ringworld, a construct which dwarfs even a Death Star). Imperial ground forces would be no match against Pak Protectors, I'm not even so sure how a Sith Lord or Apprentice might fare against one.

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    Empire vs. Covenant

    okay, i just joined this cite just to answer this questrion. i don't wat u are thinking. the empire could easily beat the covenant. the covenant do seem to have better technology but thats nothing. The empire has a more of a variety of weapons. EMP! an EMP would wipe out the covenant defenses and leave them as unprotected as a new born baby. Someone said above that the covenant could go to hyperspace faster and more accuratly. this is a lie. it is up to depate whether thy are faster but accuratly, no. And it would be pointless too. if the covenant tried to escape the empire would use his Indictor ships(disable ships from jumping into hyperspace using gravity). Also, throughout halo the UNSC has dominated fighting on the surface since the beggining of the war. Their is no way the EMpire is worst then the halo humans. its not possible, AT-ATs and AT-STs? And for my last thing, all you had to do to to win the war is send a picture of the Emperer to the Covenantleaders, prophets, and they would all have heart-attacks do to the emperer's ugliness.


    Man that guy is wrinkly!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yoshua
    Dorsai versus The Empire might be an interesting match. Or Pak Protectors.

    I don't think the Dorsai have the numbers, then again, they probably wouldn't need them (they have been known to subdue planets with a handful of soldiers). They'd also be nigh immune to Empire terror tactics.

    Pak have the same problem though. Probably not enough of them. But considering what they can do with so few (I mean, they built the ringworld, a construct which dwarfs even a Death Star). Imperial ground forces would be no match against Pak Protectors, I'm not even so sure how a Sith Lord or Apprentice might fare against one.
    If you use Protector Stage Humans, it would be a really interesting fight--whose side would the converted stormtroopers take?

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    Tough one. I'm going to say Covenant. True, the Empire has the Death Star, but those things are expensive. The Covenant can more easily leverage some heavy firepower.

    I doubt the Covenant would have a REAL problem taking down a Death Star, if they have a big enough armada. They'd take heavy casualties, but eventually the Death Star would become a floating mass of slag.

    A final key element is that the Empire would probably underestimate the Covenant long enough for the Covies to get a star map, and glass Coruscant.

    And a Jedi/Sith will not win against the Covenant. Can anyone say "Hunters with Fuel Rod Guns"?

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    O man, thread necrology. I was just about to welcome Humphrey back

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    The Covenant has mobs of religious zealots, and the Empire has mass-produced infantry with armor-penetrating plasma weapons. The Covenant rely on energy shields, and the Empire has weapons that will tear through those defenses. The Covenant has big freaking ships...the Empire has big freaking ships and a mass of disposable, somewhat irritating fighters. And Sith. I think it'd be a good fight, but I think the Dark Trooper program is a match for the Elites, and the Stormtroopers are more than a match for the Grunts. Plus the Empire has superior assault mechs, I think. The Covenant has slow, vulnerable mechanical units (granted, the Banshee and Ghost are manuverable, but that's why you have a pack of TIE fighters).

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    I've only watched SW and played HALO: Combat Evolved, so I don't know a lot from the novels for either. IIRC, Cortana and the Pride of Autumn took out 3 Covenant ships before the landing on Halo. If we accept that the PoA doesn't have any type of energy shield and is in all or most respects inferior to Imperial ships, then we might want to rethink the parity of Covanent weapons or tactics with Imperial ships.

    The Death Star and Halo are interesting. Maybe the Empire could build a halo given enough time. Maybe they did a long, long time ago and they were the Forerunners. Hmmm, and maybe the Flood is a virulent form of midichlorians...

    Either way, I bet the Master Chief could take on a bunch of Storm troopers and win.
    Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ara Pacis
    I've only watched SW and played HALO: Combat Evolved, so I don't know a lot from the novels for either. IIRC, Cortana and the Pride of Autumn took out 3 Covenant ships before the landing on Halo. If we accept that the PoA doesn't have any type of energy shield and is in all or most respects inferior to Imperial ships, then we might want to rethink the parity of Covanent weapons or tactics with Imperial ships.

    The Death Star and Halo are interesting. Maybe the Empire could build a halo given enough time. Maybe they did a long, long time ago and they were the Forerunners. Hmmm, and maybe the Flood is a virulent form of midichlorians...

    Either way, I bet the Master Chief could take on a bunch of Storm troopers and win.
    I agree with Ara. Considering the problems that the covenant has with primitive human ships, they are going to get pasted by a star destroyer. If you go ahead and give the impys a fleet with full starfighter and stormtrooper complements, the covenant are not going to stand a chance

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ara Pacis
    IIRC, Cortana and the Pride of Autumn took out 3 Covenant ships before the landing on Halo.
    The ship was Pillar of Autumn.

    "A dozen Covenant superior battleships against a single Halcyon-class cruiser. Given those odds I'm content with three...make that four kills." -- Cortana.

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    Oops, you're right, I knew the name didn't sound right but I was too lazy to double check.
    Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.

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    the covenant capital ships pulse laser cannon will most likely blast through an imperial star destroyer and the covenant would have emp shielding. the covenant don't hyperspace the use slipspace rupters and the Indictor ships are useless because the covenant can use slipspace even if there is gravity and for those AT ATs the scarbs will blow right through one with its main cannon. the AT STs won't stand a chance against the phantoms and banshee's fuel rod bombs.

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    The most important thing is logistics. I may be wrong here, but my impression is that the Covenant only have dozens of worlds, whereas the Empire appears to have thousands.

    On the other hand I have played Halo and the Covenant do manage to hit a fair bit when they shoot, whereas stormtroopers seem incapable of hitting the side of a barn from inside the barn.

    But the Empire does have an advantage in that Star Wars weapons never seem to need to be reloaded.

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    Lets compare their technology:

    aircraft: the covenants seemingly most advanced airborne fighter the banshee is slower, more poorly armed, less maneuverable, and less heavily armed than the cheap snow speeder in star-wars, and in the star wars universe the snow speeder is basically cannon fodder against an imperial forces. Dedicated aerospace fighters are way above anything the covenant has, and they have them in absolutely massive numbers.

    armored vehicles: the covenant tanks (spectre) seem to hav roughly the armor and weaponry of basic police land speeders, nothing compared to advanced military tanks and walkers used by the empire

    flying bikes: the ghost is slower, less maneuverable, and no better armed than the run-of-the-mill bikes in star wars, and would be torn to shred by even the most basic land speeder

    capital ships: star wars has tens of thousands of star destroyers. Even the smaller star destroyers are capable of not only killing all life on a planet, but blasting away the entire atmosphere and melting the surface in under a day, and probably more like an hour to prevent enemy defensive forces from arriving. And these are regular imperial battleships (which they have tens of thousands of), not the most massive ones. And the Death Star may be cheap to use, but they have built two and several other variants with the same destructive ability, so it cannot be neglected. And even with the ability to sterilize a planet, melt its surface, and blast away the entire atmosphere, a group of several star destroyers was still not able to penetrate a realtively small, make-shift shield on Hoth. Also, the shield on Alderaan was able to protect the entire planet from the Death Star for a fraction of a second, so it would likely be no trivial matter for the covenenant to penetrate imperial shields. The covenant cannot use the HALO network because it would kill them as well. It destroys all macroscopic life in the galaxy. Besides, the imperial hyperdrives can cross the galaxy in a matter of a few days or even less, and the HALO space stations are easily destroyed, the imperial forces would probably have little trouble capturing one, using it to determine the location of the others, and destroying them all.

    ground weapons: Covenant weapons either use ammo or easily overheat. Their rifle-sized weapons also take multiple shots to take down even unarmored humans. On the other hand imperial pistols can take down an armored storm trooper or robot in one shot, while their carbines are capable of blowing small holes in walls and their larger rifles are capable of destroying armored vehicles (so more powerful than the HALO rocket launchers). Their crew-served two-person machine gunes are capable of taking out a small transport ship, while their self-propelled missile tanks can take out large starships. This is opposed to HALO's wraith, an armored, self-propelled mortar that can't even kill a human in one shot. Star Wars also has thermal detonators, which are far more destructive even than covenant plasma grenades, powerful enough that an entire large room full of people were afraid of it while the HALO grenades only have a destructive radius of maybe two meters, three at most, and even then isn't necessarily lethal. Plasma swords look cool, but they cannot penetrate shields, walls, and take several hits to penetrate armor. There is no comparison with light sabers or even vibra-blades in star wars, which can kill armored foes instantly. The very fact that blade weapons without any defensive ability are effective weapons for ordinary soldiers indicates just how poor the projectile weapons are. In terms of accuracy, in the battle of Hoth and the battle in Geonosia they were exchanging gun fire and scoring direct hits at a range of several kilometers.

    combat: the covenant may be religious zealots, but they do not seem particularly bright nor are they particularly brave, with the grunts running away routinely. The imperial forces are smart enough to set traps and trick and mislead their opponents. They also seldom, if ever, run away, even willingly sacrificing themselves for a simple trap, and are conditioned well enough that they have absolutely no problem destroying all life on a neutral, totally civilian planet, or destroying the planet entirely.

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    whereas stormtroopers seem incapable of hitting the side of a barn from inside the barn.

    Actually not true. They have trouble hitting the HEROES of the story. This is due to that basic magic of, the Heroes must escape. Watch the movies again and see how accurate they are when aiming for the rebel grunts.

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    Actually not true. They have trouble hitting the HEROES of the story. This is due to that basic magic of, the Heroes must escape. Watch the movies again and see how accurate they are when aiming for the rebel grunts.
    I think you've hit the nail on the head here. The most important thing in the Star Wars universe is magic which keeps the heros from dying. The most important thing in the Halo universe is finger twitching action combined with the ability of the hero to keep coming back from the dead until he gets it right. When these two mix the end result will probably be a really convoluted storyline that ends up with the Master Chief and the Rebels, outnumbered and outgunned and yet strangely enough, ultimately victorious.

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    It's gotta be the Force.

    On a side note. I find it interesting that the Empire doesn't appear to have an AI like Cortana. The best they have are...protocol droids.
    Et tu BAUT? Quantum mutatus ab illo.

  30. 2006-Jun-19, 08:44 PM

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ara Pacis
    It's gotta be the Force.
    No, the force is only the second strongest power in the galaxy. The heroes in Star Wars are protected by a far greater power: character shielding. There is no force in the universe that can penetrate character shielding

    Quote Originally Posted by Ara Pacis
    On a side note. I find it interesting that the Empire doesn't appear to have an AI like Cortana. The best they have are...protocol droids.
    What do you mean? In the Star Wars universe self-aware and fully independent robots seem to be the norm. Cortana seems to be a state-of-the-art system. Although here appearence may be more human I would not say she is any more advanced than any of the droids that are ubiquitous in Star Wars. Her voice may be more natural but otherwise she would probably only be exceptional in the Star Wars universe because she doesn't have a body of her own (a drawback). Even basic fighters have droid assistants that help run the ships, while larger starships have many. Cortana is the only modern self-aware AI in the first game period (the only other AI is from a now-extinct civilization), while even small family farms have self-aware AI's in Star Wars.

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