The Avengers!

[AKONI]

When I saw the extended Superbowl trailer for this movie the 11 year old who still lives inside of me starting jumping up and down for joy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGt-saFvkNk


But... The rumor mill has it that Loki has teamed up with an alien race that wants our... WATER!!!

Now, look, I understand that the alien race they're talking about did have that motivation, but the original comics were written before we knew just how much water was really out there, so I don't fault Marvel or Stan Lee, but since the movie was filmed last year in 2011, couldn't they have come up with a different reason for the invasion?

And now that I've brought that up what do you think would be a legitimate reason for an alien race to attack us?

[Glom]

Who are the Avengers then? I recognise Iron Man (though never saw the movies) and Thor and Captain America and the Hulk (though he didn't get a movie to set this up like the others).

I see Iron Man and the Hulk and Captain America forming crime fighting troop, but Thor seems more out of place. The trailer makes it look like he's just one of them, when he's not a man, but an Aesir.

[swampyankee]

And now that I've brought that up what do you think would be a legitimate reason for an alien race to attack us?

Legitimate? No, but then I don't believe there is any legitimate reason to attack anyone. Plausible reasons? Not as long as Einsteinian physics holds. If it doesn't? Well, these are aliens we're talking about. Maybe they find creatures with endoskeletons disgusting or the aliens are von Neuman machines, and we're just in the way or they're school children working on a school ecology project and they first have to sterilize their culture dish. Interstellar bypass works, too.

[HenrikOlsen]

Who are the Avengers then? I recognise Iron Man (though never saw the movies) and Thor and Captain America and the Hulk (though he didn't get a movie to set this up like the others).

He had two: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286716/ and http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800080/. Though admittedly they didn't set up the actor as Hulk, they only set up Hulk the character.

I see Iron Man and the Hulk and Captain America forming crime fighting troop, but Thor seems more out of place. The trailer makes it look like he's just one of them, when he's not a man, but an Aesir.

Iron Man, Thor and The Hulk were founding members in the original comics, if you don't like it, complain to Stan Lee.

Captain America was retroactively made a founding member in Avengers #4, the ones you didn't get are Hawkeye who became a member in Avengers #63 (as Goliath) and Black Widow who didn't make it until Avengers #111. They're all established as members at one time or another.
Those three are really the ones out of place as they're woefully underpowered compared to the three big hitters.

Hawkeye's new to the movies, Black Widow was introduced in the second Iron Man movie, Hawkeye had a cameo in Thor.

[HenrikOlsen]

Legitimate? No, but then I don't believe there is any legitimate reason to attack anyone. Plausible reasons? Not as long as Einsteinian physics holds. If it doesn't? Well, these are aliens we're talking about. Maybe they find creatures with endoskeletons disgusting or the aliens are von Neuman machines, and we're just in the way or they're school children working on a school ecology project and they first have to sterilize their culture dish. Interstellar bypass works, too.

Seeing that Loki's been a frighteningly effective manipulator ever since his origins in mythology, it doesn't really require a legitimate reason for them to attack, just a long talk with him.

[Rhaedas]

I see Iron Man and the Hulk and Captain America forming crime fighting troop, but Thor seems more out of place. The trailer makes it look like he's just one of them, when he's not a man, but an Aesir.

I would guess that Thor is the counter for Loki, and the rest of whatever is fighting is going against everyone else.

"I have an army."
"We have a Hulk."

Or maybe the other guys are just cleaning up...Captain America is probably a bit on par with the Aesir. The serum he took changed his body's metabolism and healing so he's probably comparable. He just doesn't have a magic hammer.

Black Widow was introduced in the second Iron Man movie.

Oh yes indeed she was.

Greatest thing about her is how everything seems effortless. I wonder if she's have a hair out of place in this movie.

[HenrikOlsen]

I would guess that Thor is the counter for Loki, and the rest of whatever is fighting is going against everyone else.

Much simpler: Thor is one of the heaviest hitters available and there's massive amounts of people needs hitting.

And if he'd have been left out of the founding team Avengers fans would have been out with torches and pitchforks, they only dared replace the second-stringers and still only for other established members.

[AKONI]

Who are the Avengers then? I recognise Iron Man (though never saw the movies) and Thor and Captain America and the Hulk (though he didn't get a movie to set this up like the others).

I see Iron Man and the Hulk and Captain America forming crime fighting troop, but Thor seems more out of place. The trailer makes it look like he's just one of them, when he's not a man, but an Aesir.

Thor, Captain America and Iron Man are the big three of the Avengers. The team never seems complete without all of them on the team. I'm not sure why Thor seems out of place to you, but you probably don't know they've had not just humans but space aliens and androids on the team as well.

They're not just limited to fighting crime. Batman sort of just fights crime, the Avengers fight crime, world domination and alien invasions.

[AKONI]

I don't think I was clear...


When I asked And now that I've brought that up what do you think would be a legitimate reason for an alien race to attack us? I meant it as a general question since we're always complaining about the whole lets steal their water thing.



If a movie was being made and there was going to be an alien invasion what would be a plausible reason in your mind for the invasion?

[Rhaedas]

Our women.

Your initial point was a valid one, not just for water, but for other resources too. What do we have materially that can't be found elsewhere, no conquest necessary?

Short of being in a habitable zone (for our type of life), there's nothing entirely special here.

[Swift]

When I asked And now that I've brought that up what do you think would be a legitimate reason for an alien race to attack us? I meant it as a general question since we're always complaining about the whole lets steal their water thing.

They are members of the Galactic FCC (US Federal Communications Commission) and there have been many complaints about our radio and TV broadcasts, and they are here to enforce restrictions.

Actually, I'm only half kidding. As swampyankee and others have pointed out, from a resource standpoint, there really aren't good reasons, short of Earth is a good spot for a new Galactic bypass or something. Maybe religion or social or psychological make more sense. Maybe the aliens are xenophobes and just hate all other life. Maybe their Gods told them to. Maybe they've been visiting us for decades, seeing how we tasted, and have decided that they got the recipe perfected and now require seven billion choice humans for their fast-food chain.

[Swift]

As far as the title of the thread, not the particular question, I'm not a big fan of the comic book movies in general, but I'm looking forward to this one. I really liked the Iron Man movies, and chunks of this one were filmed in Cleveland.

IMHO, one has to turn off the physics part of your brain for any comic book movie.

[R.A.F.]

When I saw the extended Superbowl trailer for this movie the 11 year old who still lives inside of me starting jumping up and down for joy.

Oh, heck yeah....excelsior!!



Love the slow "turn" at the end of the trailer where we see all the Avengers, backs together, ready to fight...just a beautious image.

[Glom]

Thor, Captain America and Iron Man are the big three of the Avengers. The team never seems complete without all of them on the team. I'm not sure why Thor seems out of place to you, but you probably don't know they've had not just humans but space aliens and androids on the team as well.

They're not just limited to fighting crime. Batman sort of just fights crime, the Avengers fight crime, world domination and alien invasions.

What I mean is that the Thor movie made a big deal about Thor being a fish out of water when he was cast down to Earth. But the trailer showed him just one of the bunch with the other Avengers. It seems like there should be a bit of a divide between him and the others, at least at first.

Now of course, I'm going off a couple of seconds of trailer footage and maybe the movie actually will do what I expect.

He had two: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286716/ and http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0800080/. Though admittedly they didn't set up the actor as Hulk, they only set up Hulk the character.

I know of those two movies, but they weren't really a prelude to this movie. Captain America and Thor were released to effectively be teaser trailers for this movie.

[Rhaedas]

I know of those two movies, but they weren't really a prelude to this movie. Captain America and Thor were released to effectively be teaser trailers for this movie.

Yes they were, but I think they stand as movies on their own right too. I didn't think I'd like Captain America initially, but thought it was quite good, and the ending...gah, that sucks.

[HenrikOlsen]

If a movie was being made and there was going to be an alien invasion what would be a plausible reason in your mind for the invasion?

Lebensraum.

[Gillianren]

IMHO, one has to turn off the physics part of your brain for any comic book movie.

I think a good comic book movie just requires it to be a bit flexible. Or perhaps more accurately, all the physics have to make sense within the rules the movie itself has established. As one of my ex-boyfriends put it, every movie is allowed one great impossibility, and anything beyond that requires work to support. In superhero movies, the existence of superheroes is the great impossibility, and you can have anything you need to support that framework. But once things start happening just because, you're slipping out of the possibility of being a good movie.

I'm going to have to back up "there is no legitimate reason for alien invasion" but agree that, well, they've got Loki. Legitimate isn't what counts.

[Noclevername]

It depends on what Marvel alien race (and which version of those races) they choose. The Skrulls and the Kree have been at war for ten thousand generations and developed cultures based on conquest, and want Earth for various reasons depending on various writers-- I think the most commonly given is that they can harvest Earth's superhumans for their armies, but others include historical value (Earth's Moon was the site of their first conflict) and yes, the need to interbreed with humans to help jumpstart the aliens' evolution. However, that's the the mainstream versions of those races. The Ultimate Marvel line (which strongly influenced the movies) has the Skrull/Chitauri as hive-mind fanatics who believe they are the universe's immune system and are out to remove the cancer of individual thinking. The Ruul are evolved Kree who want to punish earth in revenge for human interference in the Kree-Skrull wars. Then there's the Shi'Ar (although their involvement usually revolves around the X-Men), the Brood (who want to use humans to gestate their eggs), the Terrible Toad Men (comic relief), and the many other aliens created over several decades of comic books...

AFAIK, Never in Marvel's history have any of these aliens actually come here for water.

[swampyankee]

It's probably my age, but when I see a reference to The Avengers, I think of John Steed and Mrs Peel.

[Swift]

It's probably my age, but when I see a reference to The Avengers, I think of John Steed and Mrs Peel.

I was going to say the same thing. And of course, it has to be Diana Rigg's Emma Peel.

[Van Rijn]

I was going to say the same thing. And of course, it has to be Diana Rigg's Emma Peel.

Definitely not Tara King.

Anyway, I ran into this issue years ago. I'd see something about a new Avengers show, then find it was some superhero thing. I'm pretty used to it by now.

I wonder if anyone has ever done any fan fiction with the two sets of Avengers meeting up? Of course, Emma and John theoretically have no superpowers or super suits, but they have their tricks and techniques.

[HenrikOlsen]

I was going to say the same thing. And of course, it has to be Diana Rigg's Emma Peel.

So that'd be series 4 and 5 only.
Episode 1 of series 4 was first aired (October '65 in the UK, March '66 in the US) in the same month Avengers #21 was published.

My guess is if it's age, it's which medium was preferred at the time.

[Solfe]

The geek in me has to say there are numerous Avenger's crossovers, most being with the West Coast Avengers but there are no Avenger's vs. Avengers outside of the Fan Fic world.

My personal opinion is the Original Avengers (John and Emma) would have been a good crossover match with Excalibur series from about 1988. That would have teamed them with Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Capt. Britain, Meggan, Lockheed the dragon, and Phoenix (Rachel Summers).

These remnants from the X-men are pretty weakened and individually, they tended to have lot of "oops" moments. Typical stories ended with two mismatched characters having to save everyone else with their wits.

However, John and Emma would be a great match with Black Widow or an un-costumed Hawkeye or Capt. America. On the other hand, I could totally see them treating Tony Starke as a pariah for his unprofessional, party attitude. That might be very amusing.

[AKONI]

Definitely not Tara King.

Anyway, I ran into this issue years ago. I'd see something about a new Avengers show, then find it was some superhero thing. I'm pretty used to it by now.

That's really funny! When I was a little kid, maybe seven or eight years old back in the early 70's, I was flipping through a tv guide and saw a listing for a show called the Avengers. I was excited about seeing Captain America and the gang on tv, I waited the hour or so for it to start and found myself both surprised and disappointed when a man with a bowler hat appeared on the screen.

I watched it anyway, feeling somewhat cheated, and ended up becoming a fan.

I think Mrs. Peel may have been my first tv crush.

[Nowhere Man]

It's probably my age, but when I see a reference to The Avengers, I think of John Steed and Mrs Peel.

Agreed, so long as it's nothing to do with either Ralph Fiennes or Uma Thurman.

Fred

[Jim]

Definitely not Tara King. ...

You mean Miss Ra-boom-di-ay?

[KaiYeves]

Definitely not Tara King.

Anyway, I ran into this issue years ago. I'd see something about a new Avengers show, then find it was some superhero thing. I'm pretty used to it by now.

I wonder if anyone has ever done any fan fiction with the two sets of Avengers meeting up? Of course, Emma and John theoretically have no superpowers or super suits, but they have their tricks and techniques.

In this "Premake" trailer (imagining what the superhero movie would look like if it had been made in 1952), Emma Peel is the Black Widow.

[R.A.F.]

It's probably my age, but when I see a reference to The Avengers, I think of John Steed and Mrs Peel.

I think of both simultaniously...had to read the thread to find out which it was.


...and I'm an Emma fan also....stopped watching after she left.

[novaderrik]

maybe earth has the best water and the invaders are just alien hipsters?

[Tog]

The game City of Heroes has a plausible (I think) reason for the alien invasion that was the catalyst for the player characters to get involved.

Aliens appeared through dimensional portals and attacked every city on Earth simultaneously. The war lasted six months or so and resulted in the death of all but eight of Earth's superheroes. Two years pass and heroes are starting to filter back into the world. That's when the game started.

Years later, they released the arc where you find out the cause of the war. One of the supervillains, known for his intricate plans, created robotic versions of the best known heroes of the day and attacked the alien world. Their attack on us was retaliation for something we didn't know we'd done. The reason the villain did this are never made clear, but that's in keeping with his established personality.

As far as the individual stories go leading to The Avengers movie, The Hulk with Edward Norton did have a scene where someone from SHIELD was looking into him. I can't recall the specifics, but it was a character seen in the other films.

I never saw Captain America, but Thor was stinky bad. Unless I missed a whole bunch of stuff, I didn't see Loki as that big of a manipulator. I know he's supposed to be, but I just didn't see it.