Star Wars: Attack of the Clones

[SpacedOut]

On 2002-05-21 15:04, Aodoi wrote:

Somehow the Jedi in this film came across as so incompetent to me that wiping them out would hardly be difficult.

The Jedi’s abilities are supposedly being diminished by Palpatine – in one scene Windu and Yoda are actually discussing if they should reveal that fact to the senate.

There are some continuity errors in the movie – mostly within its self, while I agree the scenes between Anakin and Padme are painful to watch, especially the “picnic” – Lucas had to put something like them in the movie in order to maintain continuity with “Return” so Luke can “see the good in him” and turn him away from the Dark Side.

As for continuity between the books and movies – I don’t think Lucas really cares if he doesn’t match with the books – one example is that Dooku pulls the Death Star schematics to take to Palpatine. This completely negates one of the main story lines in the Jedi Academy series. I think he is more interested in making all the movies fit together.

One unanswered question – why doesn’t Obi-Wan recognize 3-PO and R2-D2 in Episode IV. I’ve wanted the answer to that since I saw Episode I.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SpacedOut on 2002-05-21 15:41 ]</font>

[amstrad]

On 2002-05-21 15:40, SpacedOut wrote:
One unanswered question – why doesn’t Obi-Wan recognize 3-PO and R2-D2 in Episode IV. I’ve wanted the answer to that since I saw Episode I.

I think Ben does recognize the two droids. He says, "I don't seem to remember ever owning a droid." But he says it ambiguously just like he tells Luke that his father is dead. Ben is trying to protect Luke from the truth. If he says that he remebers the droids, he would have to explain how, about how they were involved with Anakin, and he doesn't want to dump all that on Luke just then.

[Chip]

On 2002-05-21 15:40, SpacedOut wrote:
"...One unanswered question – why doesn't Obi-Wan recognize 3-PO and R2-D2 in Episode IV. I’ve wanted the answer to that since I saw Episode I."

Obi-Wan doesn't always let on what he's thinking.

Perhaps Obi-Wan's ability to mask neural nets (be they biological or artificial,) was put to use with C3PO. (Who would have said "hello" and babbled on about their predicament.)

R2-D2 was programmed to deliver a message seemingly by accident to Luke, and later (perhaps by design) to Obi-Wan, with Luke looking on.

Don't mind me, I'm just guessing. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

[Mr. X]

Obi-Wan is not all that close to the droids, I don't know if he ever speaks with them, yet he seems relatively indifferent to their absence or presence.

If he knows them it's that he doesn't want to dump all that crap on Luke at the same time.

Maybe he doesn't remember if they are the same droids, I don't recall him getting the designations of Luke's droids before hearing Leia's message.

My guess is he doesn't care at all about droids. He seems to have a pretty lowly opinion of them. I guess it would be the equivalent for us of remembering who we rode with on the bus thirty something years ago. For Obi-wan it's probably worse than that, it would be like remembering a talking watch or something.

Besides, has anyone thought that there may actually be MORE than ONE R2 unit in the universe? More than ONE protocol droid? We see both of those, one in X-Wings in Episode IV (astromech droid, R2) and a protocol droid very similar in appearance and even in voice to C3PO on Bespin in Episode V (ECHUTA! it says to C3PO. Apparently it's a very nasty expression).

What surprises me is why doesn't C3PO recognize Obi-Wan? Because the name Ben Kenobi fools him? Because Kenobi has changed too much?

C3PO in A New Hope is supposedly 110 years old and has never been memory wiped... as far as he knows [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img].

Briefly: Obi-Wan thinks droids are crap, pointless objects and there are lots of droids who look the same.

C3PO is an idiot. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

[Geo3gh]

C3PO in A New Hope is supposedly 110 years old and has never been memory wiped... as far as he knows [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img].

Well that's certainly changed due to Episode I. Anakin built C-3PO in PM. So by AotC, 3PO's 10 years old. A New Hope takes place 16-20 years after Ep. III. (Who knows how much time passes between II and III? Since Hayden is playing Anakin again, I'd say not more than 10 years.)

So C3PO is probably closer to 40 than 110. Since Lucas is changing that, it's easy to posit a memory wipe in there somewhere.

[Mr. X]

Alls I can tells ya is that by official data he was 'sposed to be 110 years old in episode 4.

That may change, but I'm guessing Threepio's "brains" might have existed long before Anakin might have assembled him. Threepio's annoying self may have been himself for longer than that . I'm guessing that maybe he hasn't built him entirely, but he was pieced together from parts that could have memories from as far back as 110 years before.

[odysseus0101]

On an unrelated topic, what happened to force powers in battle, they hardly push, pull, jump and never throw their sabres?

I was wondering about this, as well. It seems to me that all those Jedi could do a coordinated 'push' and send half that droid army flying backward into the other half.

But then we would never have gotten to see General Yoda S. Patton, Jr.

[Mr. X]

Glad to see I may not be alone having seen that jedis don't seem to use their powers in combat.

A nice force push could have sent Jango Fett's missile right back in his face.

Oh well. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

[Johnno]

A few things I thought about when viewing the movie.

At the very beginning a large space ship is going in for landing. A big shiny ship. That just came from outer space. Can anyone say re-entry? Oh well, I guess they had it polished by R2 units on the way, eh?

And when it goes in for landing, one of the ground crew are standing on the landing pad. No forces in action (or just THE force?), the ground crew can stand there, when a large space craft makes a vertical landing.

And talking about silly space ships, what up with the landing gear? sure those thin spider legs might look cool, but how practical are they? land anywhere than on a super dense landing platform and you'd probly sink.

Instant communications between planets that are light years away, that's always hilarious in my opinion.

Oh well, have to run to school.

In my opinion, you couldve cut first half of the movie probably, and gone straight to the fighting [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Chip]

Hi Johnno,
I'd like to answer your points but must admit that I am making excuses in these answers, and it's all in fun. Nothing from me here to take seriously. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Chip

Johnno wrote:
At the very beginning a large space ship is going in for landing. A big shiny ship. That just came from outer space. Can anyone say re-entry? Oh well, I guess they had it polished by R2 units on the way, eh?

Chip:
It's a beauty isn't it? Obviously a special luxury ship. Perhaps the shiny material is a very expensive type of heat shield.

Johnno:
And when it goes in for landing, one of the ground crew are standing on the landing pad. No forces in action (or just THE force?), the ground crew can stand there, when a large space craft makes a vertical landing.

Chip:
Well maybe the technology is so sound that its about as dangerous as someone standing off to the side while a helicopter lands at one of those 20th Century "heliports" on Earth, or even someone standing next to a driveway while a car is parked.

Johnno:
And talking about silly space ships, what up with the landing gear? sure those thin spider legs might look cool, but how practical are they? land anywhere than on a super dense landing platform and you'd probably sink.

Chip:
Yeah. Cool landing gear. Well again, isn't this ship like a space going Maserati? You wouldn't drive a low slung luxury sports car or a Rolls Royce over terrain that a Jeep is designed to take. It's a special fancy ship designed for specific landing locations.

Johnno:
Instant communications between planets that are light years away, that's always hilarious in my opinion.

Chip:
Yes, that's a tough one to make excuses for. Some simply say "subspace" as if the communication goes through some other dimension where time is compressed, but that's really like saying "abracadabra" isn't it?

I remember on older Star Trek episodes, they's ask: "How long before they get our message through subspace at this distance?" At least they built some kind of time delay into it.
My fictional excuse for Star Wars is a tachiyon or negative energy beam that exists in a faster-than-light zone. The communication beam is somehow transformed by the sending and receiving hardware into a coherent real time message. (Abracadabra!) [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Johnno]

Chip:
It's a beauty isn't it? Obviously a special luxury ship. Perhaps the shiny material is a very expensive type of heat shield.

Johnno:
Beauty? not really, big and clumsy in my opinion, when it was going in for landing I thought 'WW2 bomber', even though ww2 bombers are more beautiful and graceful [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]
I mean B-17 *droool*
But sure, you got me on the heat shield explanation. I guess Im too used to Apollo Command modules [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]


Chip:
Well maybe the technology is so sound that its about as dangerous as someone standing off to the side while a helicopter lands at one of those 20th Century "heliports" on Earth, or even someone standing next to a driveway while a car is parked.

Johnno:
Yeah, but in reality it does take force, but I reckon it could be some antigravity thing propulsion. Just thought it looked silly with people standing there with a huge ship coming in for landing.

Chip:
Yeah. Cool landing gear. Well again, isn't this ship like a space going Maserati?

Johnno:
Yeah I reckon you're right. Wouldnt want to go anywhere uncivilised with it, now would we?

Chip:
You wouldn't drive a low slung luxury sports car or a Rolls Royce over terrain that a Jeep is designed to take. It's a special fancy ship designed for specific landing locations.

Johnno:
True, guess Im too rough, if I got to design a ship it'd go anywhere, land anywhere.. Even so, what about emergency landing? And wasent it pretty much the same type ship they took on that field trip later in the movie? Dont remember what kinda landing gear it had tho.

I guess Im too used to reality and space flight of today to be able to fully imagine space travel in the far far future, in a fantasy world [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img] Maybe they dont even do re-entry, they just push the enter atmosphere button and teleport... grin

So I reckon you cant really translate the movie into science terms of today. I guess that's why my list of 'errors' was much longer than Phil's, he thought about it, I didnt...

oh well, all fun and sports aint it? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[nebularain]

Hi! I'm new to the board. Thought I'd add a few comments on the movie [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] .

I liked the space ship entry to the planet at the beginning of the movie. It approached from "below" the planet instead of the traditional from "above" angle. I thought that was a neat twist.

I too wondered about the C3PO problem. In Episode IV, he reacts like he had never seen or heard of Tatooine (I think I killed the spelling of that planet's name). How could he not know about the planet he originally came from?

That was a good question asked earlier - how could the Jedi not feel the power of Palpatine (did I get his name right?). I noticed at one point when he finished someone's question to him, and Yoda looked like he was suspicious about that. But you would think Yoda could feel the power of the Force in him, wouldn't you?

I've heard that there's supposed to be a significance to Boba Fett's armor. I wonder if the third movie will explain that, or if that is information will be left alone for the book-readers.

Does anyone think that the Mellenium Falcon will have a cameo in the next movie - after all, it is supposed to be an old ship by the time Han Solo owns it [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] . OK, maybe that would be a little cheezy. But then again, it couldn't be worse than 3PO's lines in this one!

[Firefox]

At the very beginning a large space ship is going in for landing. A big shiny ship. That just came from outer space. Can anyone say re-entry? Oh well, I guess they had it polished by R2 units on the way, eh?

They used deflector shields. The N-1s we know are equipped with them, as was the original Royal Starship in TPM.

And when it goes in for landing, one of the ground crew are standing on the landing pad. No forces in action (or just THE force?), the ground crew can stand there, when a large space craft makes a vertical landing.

I think you're referring to how a person could stand when a large spacecraft is landing like that? They use what's called a "repulsorlift," which I'm guessing involves manipulating gravity to land. Ships use this whenever they're near a large gravitational body, like a planet or star.

And talking about silly space ships, what up with the landing gear? sure those thin spider legs might look cool, but how practical are they? land anywhere than on a super dense landing platform and you'd probly sink.

I'd agree with Chip on the description. Evidently, from some of the expanded references, Naboo is undergoing some sort of renaissance, and the ship designs reflect it. I would've expected more rugged landing gear, but I guess it works. They have repulsorlifts to fall back on, after all.

Instant communications between planets that are light years away, that's always hilarious in my opinion.

That's one that's always bugged me. For one thing, I suppose you could say "dramatic license." The system of communication they use is called Holonet (or will be called that?) Not sure about the mechanisms that make it work, though.

Does anyone think that the Mellenium Falcon will have a cameo in the next movie - after all, it is supposed to be an old ship by the time Han Solo owns it .

I saw what looked like a couple of ships that resembled the Millennium Falcon on the landing pad on Naboo where that transport lands. Nice cameo.

Okay, so maybe I read too many Star Wars technical manuals. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]


Adam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Firefox on 2002-05-22 10:01 ]</font>

[Mr. X]

Actually, the cleanliness didn't bother me all that much, neither did the landing...

The only thing I could think of was...

NICE INCONSPICUOUS GIGANTIC LUXURY LINER!

Shiny too...

Though nobody was supposed to know seleft Coruscant? Talk about getting attention...

[Aodoi]

You know, I've pretty much gotten over the whole "engine noise in space" thing. Ok, dramatic license, more interesting, whatever. But why in the crazed imagining of Lucas did the bloody ship have to sould like a '54 Chevy with a bad timing belt? It was like 30 seconds into the movie and I was getting pissed off at the sound track... I can accept the pod racers sounding distinctly like jet engines, why the hell did the big shiny "I'm a target come shoot me" ship sound the same way? I was thinking about the lame pod race immediately on hearing that sound, and that's a decidedly bad thing.

And a bunch of the other ships later on used the same effect. Millions upon millions for state of the art CGI and they can't foley in a non-annoying starship noise? Sheesh.

[img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[odysseus0101]

On 2002-05-22 10:09, Mr. X wrote:
Actually, the cleanliness didn't bother me all that much, neither did the landing...

The only thing I could think of was...

NICE INCONSPICUOUS GIGANTIC LUXURY LINER!

Shiny too...

Though nobody was supposed to know seleft Coruscant? Talk about getting attention...

Queen Amidala left Coruscant on a ship full of "refugees" (refugees from what, I have no idea), not a shiny luxury liner. She arrived on Coruscant on a giant luxury liner, or rather her double did. Amidala herself was piloting one of the escort fighters.

[Mr. X]

On 2002-05-22 16:10, odysseus0101 wrote:

On 2002-05-22 10:09, Mr. X wrote:
Actually, the cleanliness didn't bother me all that much, neither did the landing...

The only thing I could think of was...

NICE INCONSPICUOUS GIGANTIC LUXURY LINER!

Shiny too...

Though nobody was supposed to know seleft Coruscant? Talk about getting attention...

Queen Amidala left Coruscant on a ship full of "refugees" (refugees from what, I have no idea), not a shiny luxury liner. She arrived on Coruscant on a giant luxury liner, or rather her double did. Amidala herself was piloting one of the escort fighters.

I'm referring to the ship she took to land on Tatooine. It was a huge, shiny luxury cruiser.

I'm sure it was a huge shiny ship, and she was supposed to be on Coruscant at the time.

[Aodoi]

The ship she took to Tatooine was shiny, but appeared much smaller than the one she arrived on Coruscant in (well, next to...). In the first movie they fled Naboo in a very similar shiny ship, apparently that's just the way they make ships on Naboo. Why? Because Lucas can afford to pay for rendering reflections on an oddly shaped mirrored surface, that's why! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

I did rather like Obi-Wan's ship w/ detacheable hyperdrive. That, at least, seemed practical.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Aodoi on 2002-05-22 18:19 ]</font>

[Timm]

Just watched Ep. 2, and (wow) it was great!

I like how the Jedi where shown as the "super-soldiers", like Obi-Wan thinks "Oh hell, I'll make it somehow!" and jumps out of a window in the 100th floor.
Jango Fett was a little unlucky against Mace Windu, but he was run-over by a ... huge-critter-thingy before and probably lost some of his equipment.

And there where "realistic" battle scenes. Serious weapons, not funny dancing creatures throwing blue balls of magicaly condensed energy at a robot army. This was much better than last time.

But the best thing were the critters!! All those small/huge/creepy creatures running around on the various planets... Lucas must have spend bazillions of dollars for their fur - thats still the most difficult thing to do with CGI.

There was one thing I didn't like in this Movie:
When the Clone Army is discovered, everybody is impressed, and it's help is apreciated.
But nobody has any morale issues with that?
The Jedi use an army made of clones that where only made to fight and die?
Nobody even says something like "Hm, all these young guys are going to die after a 10 year life of extreme hard military training. They had no fun in their life and have no right to decide whether they want to help or not. Oh Well."
An I the only one who has trouble with that?

(please excuse my grammar/spelling)

[nebularain]

I forgot to ask:

Is it possible for a terrestrial planet to have rings around it?

[Paul Unwin]

I too wondered about the C3PO problem. In Episode IV, he reacts like he had never seen or heard of Tatooine (I think I killed the spelling of that planet's name). How could he not know about the planet he originally came from?

Easy: memory flush. My bet is that Artoo gets one too.

My question (not wholly appropriate for this board, but what the heck) is why doesn't Owen recognize Artoo and Threepio when they show up again on his farm? My wife think it's because both droids are simply stock designs (although Threepio was hand-built) and Owen has seen too many of the same kind to believe that they are the exact same droids. Besides, Threepio gets a shiny new coat.

Paul "etiquette and protocol" Unwin

[Mr. X]

Yes, I thought that too (about the clone army, how the "good guys" the jedis, seemingly don't care that all that flesh is massively manufactured to be torn up by cannons). Or that the guy who is cloned is actually a bounty hunter( think about the most corruptible, double-crossing, treasonous breed of people ever) and who also tried to dispatch Obi-Wan, not to mention Padme, Mace Windu and Anakin, and seems to be friends with Count Dooku.

And that's what I said... the huge ship of someone important who is supposed NOT to be there landing on a poor planet populated by thieves and other misfits. How dumb can you be? All that's missing is a huge red bullseye painted over it and a solar sail **** in front of it with "QUEEN AMIDALA IS IN THAT SHIP! BOUNTY HUNTERS REFRAIN FROM ATTACKING PLEASE!"

And I thought that the removable hyperdrive was a great idea! It looks cool, it feels cool, and why carry around extra weight? Only I feel Obi-Wan sorta destroys this by doing an unecessarily risky maneuver of passing in the hyperdrive cylinder with centimeters on each side!

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Mr. X on 2002-05-22 19:24 ]</font>

[Firefox]

There was one thing I didn't like in this Movie:
When the Clone Army is discovered, everybody is impressed, and it's help is apreciated.
But nobody has any morale issues with that?

I'm assuming cloning has been around for a while. Dexter, the alien Obi-Wan talks to in that retro-diner, mentions the Kaminoans were "cloners." I'm willing to bet they've done that for a while, and in a society that's been spacefaring for thousands of years, I'm sure the Republic has approached and dealt with this dicey issue.


Adam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Firefox on 2002-05-22 19:24 ]</font>

[The Curtmudgeon]

Well, I have to admit that my only problem with Phil's review are non-astro-related. I just can't, in the main, agree that the film was all that good.

The thing that galls me the most is, Lucas expects us to believe that the guy who is slated to become the most evil person in the Universe started out as a spoiled brat that just needed to be spanked a couple more times? I mean, really. Can you see this Anakin in Attack of the Clowns becoming more evil than Hitler, Attila the Hun and Alexander the Great all roled [sic] into one? Not me. I'd send him to bed without his supper, and then we'd see some changes! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] Sure, what happened to his mother was pretty bad, and likely to send anyone a bit over the top. But people have lost loved one before, even to murdering bandits and the like, and not gone on to great evil. I just can't believe the so-called motivation here.

If he was five or six and saw his mother treated that way and killed, then I could easier believe that it warped him that much. But unless Lucas wants us to believe that the Jedi Academy intentionally stunted his emotional development so that he continues to react to the world like a spoiled five-year-old, it just doesn't ring true. Again, this view isn't uniquely mine but was the concensus of the group (three of us total) that I saw the film with. We were all of us underwhelmed by what purported to be character development here.

And Lucas is getting just a tad too repetitious with that Jedi-must-fight-former-Master routine. Every single one of the Jedi-v.-Jedi fights were of that type, almost: Dooku was the Master of Obi-Wan's Master, so that's a very minor variation; and then he fights Anakin, which just stretches it out to three generations. But we don't get to see Windu fighting Dooku, or any Jedi fighting some Jedi who learned from a totally different Master. It's always got to be the Father-figure thing.

Okay, a lot of people want to see Yoda in a sabre duel; I'm cool with that. But then why not make Dooku the former Paduan of Windu, not Yoda? But no, it's got to be the Father-figure fight, always. If I were a Freudist, I'd start worrying about Mr. George Lucas, I would! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

One thing I do like about the film is the very obvious homage to Roman history, and even Roman could-have-been history. It's pretty obvious that Lucas wants this to be his interpretation of what might have happened if the Senatorial assassination squad hadn't gotten to Julius. Picture a surviving Julius Caesar, leader of the Senate of the Roman Republic, but with the inner knowledge that he *could* be, maybe even *should* be, an Emperor? How does he pull it off? Well, he could do a lot worse than what Palpatine has done; and really, given what we know about Juli, I can certainly see him following this script. If there is no real menace out there--and remember, Carthage has already been sown with salt, Gaul divided into three pieces and served up as pie, and Pompey squashed like a bug--then why not just invent one? Perfect! Don't grab power when you can arrange to have it thrust upon you! And, of course, Juli would have had the perfect image to point to: he would be yet another Cincinnatus, weilding the power only for good and gladly laying it down when it's all over and retiring to his farm--only somehow, he seems to keep forgetting to do that last bit. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img] Palpatine's acceptance speech was perfect; I did almost expect him to mention Cincinnatus by name. And yes, Aodoi, it was perfect to see JarJar Binks as the clown that hands it all to him.

The CGI stuff, and even most of the other artwork, was super-cool as we've all come to expect. It's just such a damn pity that the "acting" going on in front of it spoiled the view.

The (no acting Oscars in this film's future) Curtmudgeon

[Firefox]

Can you see this Anakin in Attack of the Clowns becoming more evil than Hitler, Attila the Hun and Alexander the Great all roled [sic] into one? Not me. I'd send him to bed without his supper, and then we'd see some changes!

You tell an 18-year-old who has a lightsaber, and is incredibly adept in the Force, to do what you say. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]


Adam

[Mr. X]

Sure, what happened to his mother was pretty bad, and likely to send anyone a bit over the top. But people have lost loved one before, even to murdering bandits and the like, and not gone on to great evil. I just can't believe the so-called motivation here.

If he was five or six and saw his mother treated that way and killed, then I could easier believe that it warped him that much.

Funny you should say this... think about Boba Fett... [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

[Chip]

On 2002-05-22 19:26, Firefox wrote:
You tell an 18-year-old who has a lightsaber, and is incredibly adept in the Force, to do what you say. [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

You say:
"Eh dude...can you hit that telephone poll over there?" "While you're aiming at it, I'll wait over here....in the next room...in the next city...on another planet...far far way...) [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

[Timm]

On 2002-05-22 19:22, The Curtmudgeon wrote:
*snipsnap*
The CGI stuff, and even most of the other artwork, was super-cool as we've all come to expect. It's just such a damn pity that the "acting" going on in front of it spoiled the view.
*snapsnip*

In front of it, literally. About 90% of this movie must have been made with bluescreens. Imagine: You're an actor and you have to play a dramatic scene in a blue-painted phone box. Not the best surrounding... [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif[/img]

As far as I can tell, the scenes in Amidala's residence and some other interiors are the only ones NOT made by CGI, like an ILM overkill.

-Ti(wow, that's a pretty fast thread...)mm [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]

[The Curtmudgeon]

On 2002-05-22 19:28, Mr. X wrote:
Funny you should say this... think about Boba Fett... [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

Yes, exactly! See, I can see Boba growing up with a very definite chip on his shoulders and a desire to make every single Jedi in the universe pay for killing his father. Especially if he knows that he's a clone of his father, not a normal progeny.

But I guess another way of stating my problem with Anakin is: is that all that the Jedi Academy teaches you to do with The Force, steal food off others' plates and weild a light-sabre?? What about the emotional balance necessary to reach out and deal with The Force to start with? Wasn't this a huge part of Luke's problems in Ep. IV--he kept letting his anger get in his way? Okay, so maybe Anakin is so much more powerful that he can reach out and force The Force to do what he wants regardless of his emotional state--but we certainly haven't seen any evidence that he's that powerful. Dooku literally mopped the floor with him. He walked into an enemy stronghold like he was on a spring picnic with his lover and damn near got his arm cut off because of it, never mind barely missing getting said lover boiled in molten metal. Brilliant, this kid ain't. And he can stand next to the dreaded Sith Lord himself, and not only not recognise the warping in The Force but lick up all the flattery Palpatine's throwing around like it was so much cream. (Of course, maybe that's just me: anyone starts laying that much flattery on me, and I know that something's fishy!)

So, maybe Obi-Wan's just a tremendously bad mentor. I certainly agree with the earlier posts about how brain-dead Obi-Wan must have been to miss the obvious reason for the missing planet in the archives. (Bad writing or editing, there, by the way: the Archivist says something to the effect, "I don't recognise the co-ordinates" when Obi-Wan hasn't mentioned any yet.) And he certainly feels no emotional tie to his Paduan. I can at least almost see his character development, here: he's doing such a tremendously bad job with Anakin that it's no wonder he'll be kicking himself for decades over his failure and make himself a better mentor for Luke when the time comes. It's almost like he lets Darth kill him because he acknowledges how much he failed Anakin in the first place.

I don't know. Maybe it'll all make sense when Ep. III arrives. But right now, I can see Anakin turning out a right hard case, but not Darth Vader. It just isn't there for me. The only thing evil about him is his acting.

The (I'm going to see Spider-Man again, just to forget this movie) Curtmudgeon

[Kizarvexis]

On 2002-05-22 19:22, The Curtmudgeon wrote:
The thing that galls me the most is, Lucas expects us to believe that the guy who is slated to become the most evil person in the Universe started out as a spoiled brat that just needed to be spanked a couple more times? I mean, really. Can you see this Anakin in Attack of the Clowns becoming more evil than Hitler, Attila the Hun and Alexander the Great all roled [sic] into one? Not me. I'd send him to bed without his supper, and then we'd see some changes! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img] Sure, what happened to his mother was pretty bad, and likely to send anyone a bit over the top. But people have lost loved one before, even to murdering bandits and the like, and not gone on to great evil. I just can't believe the so-called motivation here.

Don't forget that Senator Palaptine has been whispering the council of the Darkside to Anakin while he was at the academy. What was it Yoda said. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hatred, hatred leads to suffering or something to that effect?

Kizarvexis