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Thread: [Astronauts] cannot find stars

  1. #1
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    [Astronauts] cannot find stars

    The space trips to the moon are not real trips because it is too hard to find the stars. It is very hard here from earth. I do it with my own sextant and when I read about how the astronauts tried to do it I know they are only pretending

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    My girlfriend said she will help me some this time so you can understand me better. She is a school teacher as is smart. But I taught her about the astronaut problem and she says I am right and will help me

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    This all sounds vaguely familiar. How do you know the asyronauts are only pretending?

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    Does this mean the Age of Sail was a hoax, too?
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    Does this also mean that Mayan calendar that was based on movements of planets and other stars, was also a hoax? And that all thier heiroglyphs about thier astronomy are hoaxes too?

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    dastardly, again you come in with claims but no back-up. Please get on with it. You are being infracted for ignoring the moderator instructions in your previous thread - which was closed due to the lack of progress from your side of the "debate".
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  7. #7
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    Does this mean that all of Astronomy is a hoax; if those stars are just too hard to find?

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    I can't run a mile in under five minutes, so therefore all those athletes are liars.

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    my father was a sailor. we lived in San Diego and I learned how to use the sextant when I was little. Even when I was Little I was better than the sailors because they said I had a special knack for seeing the constellations. I learned the names of all the bright stars and the other ones and could find where we were but needed help with that at firwst. then I read the astronaut books about when they are in space and looking for stars to find the ship and they say they cannot see constellations in all of their books they do not see constellations. so i Know this can not be right because the only way you can find the star is that way and somebody said the computer helps but i read about that too and my girlfridnd helped me and the computer does not know very many stars maybe 40 but the computer does not know constellations and the astronaunts must know the constellations but they can not see them. sailors know the constellations so that is differetnt becaus ethat is real.

  10. #10
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    astronomy is real but the space ships are pretending when they go to the moon because they do not see constellations

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    but it is not the same way because you cannot name the star without the whole group and that is not easy all of the time

  12. #12
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    i do not think you need to find the stars for a calender but you need to find the stars for your ship and to find the right star you need the whole group. it is very hard and most people never did this and do not understand how toi do it

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    sailors ar real becvause they find the stars with the constellations bu the astronauts pretend because they even say they do not see the right constellation so they cannot find the right star

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    i won a contest once with my sextant

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    i am sorry that i got infarcted tell me if you need more to explain the problem with seeing the constellations and the stars, my girlfriend says it is the stars setting that makes it so you can tell

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    Suppose I don't believe that you've won contests with your sextant. Suppose I don't care what your girlfriend says. (What does she know?) What evidence do you have that outweighs the literally tons of evidence in support of the reality of the Apollo missions?
    _____________________________________________
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    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by dastardly View Post
    sailors ar real becvause they find the stars with the constellations bu the astronauts pretend because they even say they do not see the right constellation so they cannot find the right star
    Which astronauts, which constellations, when do they say this, and why don't you use a spell check?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dastardly View Post
    ... tell me if you need more to explain the problem with seeing the constellations and the stars ...
    Well, of course! That's the whole crux of your argument. What are your sources for your claim that the crews could not identify the stars they needed for navigational purposes?

    As far as I can tell, you might be mixing up information about how the crews could not see stars in certain situations, like when standing in daylight on the surface of the Moon. (Just as you wouldn't be able to see most stars during daylight on Earth). When they used purpose-built navigational equipment (e.g. http://www.ion.org/museum/item_view....scid=5&iid=293 ) on the spacecraft - why do you claim they couldn't they find stars then?

    You are correct that a limited number of stars were used as navigational fixes during Apollo missions (e.g. http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-AOT...rsDetents.html ), but you've not provided any evidence to show how the crews couldn't find those stars. If you can, on Earth, why couldn't they, in space?

    (And please use the "Reply With Quote" button to reply to a post. It's very hard in your recent posts to see who and what you are responding to.)
    Last edited by pzkpfw; 2012-Jan-07 at 10:13 PM. Reason: Add link to Apollo equipment
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dastardly View Post
    but it is not the same way because you cannot name the star without the whole group and that is not easy all of the time
    Yet it is possible to do so through a telescope where you can not see the entire constellation at the same time. And astronomers do so regularly.

    For reference here is some blurb on the Apollo guidance and navigation system :

    http://www.ion.org/museum/item_view....scid=5&iid=293

  20. #20
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    "Navigation during the Apollo missions was conducted almost entirely by radar from the ground accompanied by calculations from the ground computers with lesser help from the onboard computer. The sextant and the techniques for using it were seen as an almost useless backup system by the time the missions to the Moon actually flew."
    ...
    "That is not to say that the sextant on Apollo was never used for navigation. On the Apollo 8 mission, for example, which orbited the Moon in December of 1968, Jim Lovell entertained himself by shooting some celestial sights. They confirmed the spacecraft's position to the level of accuracy required, but everyone understood that Lovell was just exercising his personal favorite astro-skill (Lovell was a Navy flyer, more famous for commanding Apollo 13). And that's about all they did with it. The astronauts found the sextant much useful for its telescope than for its angle-measuring capabilities."
    http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?y=200405&i=015576

  21. #21
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    How come I can walk out my back yard and identify constellations by eye alone?

    How come I can sight my scope on them by eye alone?

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by dastardly View Post
    astronomy is real but the space ships are pretending when they go to the moon because they do not see constellations
    From the Apollo 11 transcript:

    http://history.nasa.gov/ap11fj/11day4-loi1.htm

    [As the crew sleep, Apollo 11 falls towards the Moon, now accelerating under its gravitational pull in the final leg of its outward journey. On waking, the spacecraft passes into the Moon's shadow and they see star constellations and the solar corona clearly for the first time.[...]]

    071:59:20 Armstrong: Houston, it's been a real change for us. Now we're able to see stars again and recognize constellations for the first time on the trip. It's - the sky is full of stars. Just like the night side of Earth. But all the way here, we've only been able to see stars occasionally and perhaps through the monocular, but not recognize any star patterns.

    071:59:52 McCandless: I guess it's turned into night up there really, hasn't it?

    071:59:58 Armstrong: Really has.
    So, they easily saw constellations when they weren't in bright sunlight. Will you concede that your claim was wrong?

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  23. #23
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    dastardly:
    Note that the transcript doesn't say they couldn't see stars, it says that while they were in sunlight it was nearly impossible.
    When they got in the Moon's shadow, they could.

    If you'd actually tried studying the trip rather than repeating random snippets pulled from hoax believers, you'd have known that that was the time they used the stars to navigate.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    Suppose I don't believe that you've won contests with your sextant. Suppose I don't care what your girlfriend says. (What does she know?) What evidence do you have that outweighs the literally tons of evidence in support of the reality of the Apollo missions?
    you can ask a sailor and they will tell you that you can not find the star without the whole constellation ask any sailor that knows how to use the sextant

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaurelHS View Post
    Which astronauts, which constellations, when do they say this, and why don't you use a spell check?
    i will try and use the checker my sister showed me where michael collins wrote that he found menkent and could not see the constellation. she asked me if i believed this because she does the sextant too but is not as good as me and i told her no that it was not true. so michael collins in the book must be pretending

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by pzkpfw View Post
    Well, of course! That's the whole crux of your argument. What are your sources for your claim that the crews could not identify the stars they needed for navigational purposes?

    As far as I can tell, you might be mixing up information about how the crews could not see stars in certain situations, like when standing in daylight on the surface of the Moon. (Just as you wouldn't be able to see most stars during daylight on Earth). When they used purpose-built navigational equipment (e.g. http://www.ion.org/museum/item_view....scid=5&iid=293 ) on the spacecraft - why do you claim they couldn't they find stars then?

    You are correct that a limited number of stars were used as navigational fixes during Apollo missions (e.g. http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/alsj-AOT...rsDetents.html ), but you've not provided any evidence to show how the crews couldn't find those stars. If you can, on Earth, why couldn't they, in space?

    (And please use the "Reply With Quote" button to reply to a post. It's very hard in your recent posts to see who and what you are responding to.)
    yes but when you are in the ocean you have to be positive in a way and in space very positive. so michael collins can't be positive because there is only one star. he is pretending that he is finding the star

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by moog View Post
    Yet it is possible to do so through a telescope where you can not see the entire constellation at the same time. And astronomers do so regularly.

    For reference here is some blurb on the Apollo guidance and navigation system :

    http://www.ion.org/museum/item_view....scid=5&iid=293
    yes but the scientists have computers and study the stars and know the horizon but sailors and astronauts don't have all of the astronomy equipment they have to tell on their ow. so i can tell he doesn't really know i mean michael collins doesn't really know the star

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by dastardly View Post
    you can ask a sailor and they will tell you that you can not find the star without the whole constellation ask any sailor that knows how to use the sextant
    I beg to differ. I can find Sirius, Polaris, Vega, and several others, without finding the constellations. As a matter of fact, I have to. I live in an area that washes out almost all but the brightest of the stars. If you know the night sky, the time of year, and the time of night, you should be able to find the brighter stars without the constellations. Especially if you are qualified in the use of a sextant.

  29. #29
    The Sextant on the Apollo Craft is notthe same as the hand held device used by Sailors. It was used to re allign the Navigation Platform rather than to 'fix' stars at precise times and then compare angles to figures in Almanacs. It was already pointing more or less directly at the star that was being sighted by the Computer. Or rather it was pointing at the position the computer thought the star would be at. What the operator did was to adjust the reticule so that the target star was directly under the crosshairs and thereby correct any errors that were creeping into the position estimated by the INS.
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solon View Post
    "Navigation during the Apollo missions was conducted almost entirely by radar from the ground accompanied by calculations from the ground computers with lesser help from the onboard computer. The sextant and the techniques for using it were seen as an almost useless backup system by the time the missions to the Moon actually flew."
    ...
    "That is not to say that the sextant on Apollo was never used for navigation. On the Apollo 8 mission, for example, which orbited the Moon in December of 1968, Jim Lovell entertained himself by shooting some celestial sights. They confirmed the spacecraft's position to the level of accuracy required, but everyone understood that Lovell was just exercising his personal favorite astro-skill (Lovell was a Navy flyer, more famous for commanding Apollo 13). And that's about all they did with it. The astronauts found the sextant much useful for its telescope than for its angle-measuring capabilities."
    http://fer3.com/arc/m2.aspx?y=200405&i=015576
    my sister showed me that but it also said the guiding machine needed to know the stars for knowing the pointing direction and you also have to be sure where you are if you are in space from the stars that is the only way to be sure because the electronics might break that is why sailors still use the sextant because the electronics might break

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