Medicinal tablet ingredients

[canopuss]

We take all kinds of tablets, starting from Aspirin to anti-cholesterol tablets, Hypertension tablets, anti-diabetes tablets, arthiritis tablets and the list goes on... what are the ingredients in them ? Plant products, animal products ?
If there are chemicals, where do these chemicals originally come from ?

[Jens]

I think it really varies from drug to drug. In some cases they are purely human inventions, but in many cases they are analogues of natural products. For example, aspirin is a chemical found in the bark of the willow tree, and one antihypertension drug was isolated from snake venom. Penicillin is a product of a fungus I think. So some are derived from plant chemicals, some from animal, some from bacteria.

[Gillianren]

For non-prescription medications, the ingredients are generally printed on the label.

[HenrikOlsen]

I would suggest you have a look at this blog, it's written by a guy who works as a chemist in the drugs industry and many of his articles are about the drug discovery process and, should I add, quite easily readable.

[Strange]

If there are chemicals, where do these chemicals originally come from ?

They are all chemicals. some occur naturally and are extracted from plants, etc. Some occur naturally but are manufactured. Some do not occur naturally and are manufactured. The manufacturing process can be a completely "artificial" (e.g. mix these ingredients and heat to this temperature, etc) or more "natural" (for want of a better word; such as using modified bacteria or yeast to synthesize the compound).

There is nothing inherently more or less safe in any of those sources. There are several "herbal" remedies sold without prescription that can be very dangerous if taken in large doses or in combination with certain other medicines.

[HenrikOlsen]

Also, for several medicines, the active ingredient was derived from a natural molecule, but what the drug development chemists do is they take the molecule which has shown some desired activity, and then they modify it in lots of simple ways, adding stuff, taking stuff away etc. so that they have a large range of compounds that are similar but not equal to the original one and then they test all of them for activity, toxicity etc. to try to get something even better than the original.

Testing is done using what they call models, which are things reacting to drugs like humans do (hopefully), ranging from simple chemical reagents, over various cell cultures, over small critters like mice and rats (often with genes that makes them simulate specific human diseases (hopefully)), over big animals like dogs and monkeys (this only happen of all the previous tests show very great promise).

Any step on the range of models can kill a compound, either through inactivity or toxicity, and after testing hundreds of thousands of compounds they may be lucky enough to have one that passed all the way up through the chain, at which time they get to see if their models actually were any good at predicting what happens in people.
Unfortunately, humans are hellishly complicated so for lots of therapeutic areas the models are essentially rubbish at predicting efficiency.
E. g. anything involving the central nervous system (psychopharmaca, anti-Alzheimer's drugs etc.) is a crap shoot, the models don't really test for anything but toxicity and for half the problems nobody knows what the physiological causes are, the only thing known is that it is physiological.
This incidentally is an area where the first one to market a successful drug stands to make billions a year until the patent runs out, which is why there's vast amounts of money getting spent at horrendous rates in trying to find something that works.


Interestingly, paracetamol likely wouldn't have made it to human testing if developed today because it's toxicity to dogs would have killed it right at that point.

[canopuss]

Thanks to all.
It is unfortunate when it comes to some tablets ( specially anti cholesterol, HBP, Arthiritis etc) there are some major side efffects including sometimes death, it makes you wonder whether it is worth taking tablets at all. We end up having a sick person with side effects and suffering who may ( or may not) live longer due to tablets !
It is also unbelievable Doctors are prescribing tablets rather than strongly encouraging patients to control it with diet and exercise when possible & the health authorities are okay with it. Not to mention junk food outlets are allowed to be open in any part of the world !

[NEOWatcher]

It is unfortunate when it comes to some tablets ( specially anti cholesterol, HBP, Arthiritis etc) there are some major side efffects including sometimes death, it makes you wonder whether it is worth taking tablets at all.

Yep; take it from someone who requires medication for issues that cannot be resolved by diet and excercise. I take 4 medicines just to combat the side effects.

We end up having a sick person with side effects and suffering who may ( or may not) live longer due to tablets !

Not even sick people.
This is an age where people will take pills for anything for purely vain reasons.
It's the easy way out.

The latest one I've been seeing.
A pill to make your eyelashes thicker. The side effects sound very scary.

[Gillianren]

It should be noted that most of the side effects which sound scary are also very rare. If they weren't, the drug would not have gotten approval. There have been medications I've been on where the side effects were essentially crippling--in the most notable case, it was also evidence that the drug wasn't helping--but if I could find one which actually alleviated my condition, I'd put up with a lot.

[canopuss]

About 10 years ago when I had high cholesterol a Doctor prescribed tablets, which seems to have affected my liver a little. Luckily I controlled the Cholesterol by other means and didn’t have to take the tablet for more than a month or so (well basically cut down white sugar and that seems to have reduced the cholesterol level).

Recently my Blood pressure was very high and upon a Doctor’s advice taken some tablets and found when I walk for long distance I had breathing problems. However when I stopped the tablets I didn’t have that problem. For the sake of avoiding the tablet I have been exercising more, mainly eating fruits, raw vegies and stopped eating out. Since then have lost 11 kg and also need to loose the same amount to come to ideal weight. BP has come down, although not normal, much lower than earlier reading.

I will rather eat tasteless raw vegies than experience the side effects of the tablets.

[geonuc]

It is also unbelievable Doctors are prescribing tablets rather than strongly encouraging patients to control it with diet and exercise when possible & the health authorities are okay with it. Not to mention junk food outlets are allowed to be open in any part of the world !

I'm not sure if by 'Doctors' you mean just certain doctors (such as yours ten years ago) or the medical community in general. If the latter, I think you're wrong. Very clearly, the vast majority of medical professionals - in the US and certainly most western countries - advise a good diet and healthy exercise first. Moreover, prescription medications are a great benefit to those who cannot effectively control medical conditions through diet and exercise.

As to junk food outlets 'being allowed to open in any part of the world', well, I don't know where to start, so I won't.

[AndreH]

Thanks to all.
It is unfortunate when it comes to some tablets ( specially anti cholesterol, HBP, Arthiritis etc) there are some major side efffects including sometimes death, it makes you wonder whether it is worth taking tablets at all. We end up having a sick person with side effects and suffering who may ( or may not) live longer due to tablets !
It is also unbelievable Doctors are prescribing tablets rather than strongly encouraging patients to control it with diet and exercise when possible & the health authorities are okay with it. Not to mention junk food outlets are allowed to be open in any part of the world !

Bold mine

My doctor usually says: "If it has no side effects, it has no effect". That is the reason why medication should be the last solution, not the first. Unfortunately we live in an age where we are told that for everything there is a pill which tackles the problem "easily". ( "....running for the shelter of a mother's little helper").

[Ivan Viehoff]

My doctor usually says: "If it has no side effects, it has no effect".

I think that is an unhelpful thing to say to a patient, quite apart from being obviously wrong. It might encourage the patient to tolerate unpleasant side-effects as a sign the thing is working, when in fact it usually means you should go back to the doctor in a hurry to be taken off it and given something else.

[AndreH]

I think that is an unhelpful thing to say to a patient, quite apart from being obviously wrong. It might encourage the patient to tolerate unpleasant side-effects as a sign the thing is working, when in fact it usually means you should go back to the doctor in a hurry to be taken off it and given something else.

What he means is "no possible side effects...". (And that is the way I understand it). HAve you ever looked at the possible side effects of Aspirin? And in general Aspirin is one of the drugs considered to have "almost no (dangerous)" side effects.

ETA: And it does not mean "if you suffer from side effects you have to bear them"

[Nick Theodorakis]

Maybe it's more correct to say all drugs have effects. The ones we like are the therapeutic effects and the ones we don't like are the side effects.

Nick

[AndreH]

Maybe it's more correct to say all drugs have effects. The ones we like are the therapeutic effects and the ones we don't like are the side effects.

Nick

That is basicly how it is meant.

[NEOWatcher]

It should be noted that most of the side effects which sound scary are also very rare.

Yes, and as mentioned, it's a matter of the theraputic advantages outweighing the risks.
The particular one I mentioned has about a 4% chance of the side effects.

There are plenty of side effects that are common. I have one (a) that gives me a hearty appetite. It's makes weight control so much more difficult.
I have another one (b) that the doctor suggested I change to (c) combat the first one (a).

(c) would have the same theraputic advantage of (b) but (c) would also give me nausea to make up for the increased appetite of (a).

No thanks.

[Gillianren]

There's a medication I'm not on because there's about a 10% chance I'd gain fifty or so pounds on it. There's also no guarantee that it would alleviate my symptoms at the same time, and I don't need the additional strain on my body.

[LaurelHS]

It should be noted that most of the side effects which sound scary are also very rare. If they weren't, the drug would not have gotten approval.

And some unpleasant side effects are just temporary. I was once prescribed a medication that helped my anxiety a great deal and made me feel sick to my stomach, but the nausea only lasted for a few days.

[neilzero]

I'm sceptical of the process, especially since aspertaine which was approved as a sugar substitute by the same USA agency that approves our perscription drugs and over the counter drugs. Apparently millions of people have severe withdrawl symptoms, if they drink less than 2 liters of diet drink per day.
Some of the tablets and capsels are 80% or more of the active ingrediant, but others with dosage of one miligram or less are obviously 99% or more filler. Long ago, the filler was often corn starch, but now it may be chemicals to facilitate timed release, or having worse reasons for being in our tablets. Neil

[Strange]

I'm sceptical of the process, especially since aspertaine which was approved as a sugar substitute by the same USA agency that approves our perscription drugs and over the counter drugs.

And? Are you claiming that there is something wrong with aspartame? (Apart from the taste)

Apparently millions of people have severe withdrawl symptoms, if they drink less than 2 liters of diet drink per day.

Evidence? Although I find the fact that some people drink 2 litres of soda a day (diet or otherwise) pretty weird.

Long ago, the filler was often corn starch, but now it may be chemicals to facilitate timed release, or having worse reasons for being in our tablets.

What sort of "worse reasons"?

[HenrikOlsen]

This is yet another time I wish Grant was here to answer.

That the FDA approved aspartame as well as prescription drugs should be no surprise, they are after all the Food and Drugs administration, charged with regulating nearly everything directly affecting people chemically as long as it isn't alcohol and tobacco which are allowed despite being known to be deadly and are therefore handled together with guns by the ATF.

Neilzero, could you please make clear statements about what you want to know?
Your statements sounds like a vague "modern medicine is bad" thing without any definite questions that can be answered.

BTW, that aspartame can cause physical withdrawal symptoms if people stop drinking it after over-consuming for a while isn't in itself reason to remove it as an approved chemical, if physical dependency in itself was reason to pull a something from the market then coffee, tobacco, alcohol and fatty foods would all be banned as well. And with far better reason for the last three given the number of people killed by them.

[Strange]

This is yet another time I wish Grant was here to answer.

Hardly a day goes by ...

[NEOWatcher]

I'm sceptical of the process, especially since aspertaine which was approved as a sugar substitute by the same USA agency that approves our perscription drugs and over the counter drugs. Apparently millions of people have severe withdrawl symptoms, if they drink less than 2 liters of diet drink per day.

If true, I would think that the caffeine would be a much bigger culprit. And someone looking for loads of caffeine might be drinking diet to avoid all the sugar.

[Strange]

I saw a headline in a tabloid the other day which said something like "Woman puts on 50 pounds despite drinking 5 liters of diet soda a day". I couldn't be bothered to read the story, but it almost sounded like they thought she should lose weight just by drinking diet soda (and the more you drink the more weight you should lose!) as if it had negative calories (c.f. other thread). I can't help feeling that someone who is drinking that sort of volume of soda probably doesn't have a well-balanced diet to start with.

[HenrikOlsen]

If true, I would think that the caffeine would be a much bigger culprit. And someone looking for loads of caffeine might be drinking diet to avoid all the sugar.

Wrong symptoms for the caffeine to be the culprit with diet soda withdrawal.

I do know the symptoms for caffeine withdrawal quite well as I tend to drink a lot of coffee and tend to forget to buy it when I'm about to run our so I go cold turkey every other month or so, when I run out at a time where it's inconvenient to shop.

I saw a headline in a tabloid the other day which said something like "Woman puts on 50 pounds despite drinking 5 liters of diet soda a day".

That should probably have been "because of" rather than "despite", there's no way in hell her hunger signalling system is tuned correctly with that intake.

[NEOWatcher]

Wrong symptoms for the caffeine to be the culprit with diet soda withdrawal.

What symptoms? You didn't mention any.

I'd like to know because I consider my use of diet drinks (not just soda) to be on the hight side. I don't know if I'm being affected. BTW, I usually stick to caffeine-free versions.

Per wiki.

Withdrawal symptoms—including headache, irritability, inability to concentrate, drowsiness, insomnia, and pain in the stomach, upper body, and joints—may appear within 12 to 24 hours after discontinuation of caffeine intake, peak at roughly 48 hours, and usually last from one to five days.[49]

I can't find anything on what the symptoms of Aspartame withdrawals are, just that they are severe.
Although; from browsing, it does seem like a bigger issue than caffeine.

I do know the symptoms for caffeine withdrawal quite well as I tend to drink a lot of coffee and tend to forget to buy it when I'm about to run our so I go cold turkey every other month or so, when I run out at a time where it's inconvenient to shop.

You know them for yourself, but couldn't it vary from person to person. Again; What symptoms do you get?

I've usually just gotton a headache. But; I don't drink as much anymore.

[HenrikOlsen]

I get the headache as well.

[Gillianren]

Some of the tablets and capsels are 80% or more of the active ingrediant, but others with dosage of one miligram or less are obviously 99% or more filler.

Do you know why? It's really obvious if you think about it for two seconds. The fact is, not everything requires the same amount of active ingredient in order to have the effect the pill is supposed to have. The pill still has to be big enough to be practical to use, though.

[NEOWatcher]

The pill still has to be big enough to be practical to use, though.

I wish someone would tell that to the manufacturers. I have one pill that's about 4mm diameter, and for a time, I had to cut those in half.