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Thread: The administration is doing it again ...

  1. #1
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    Angry The administration is doing it again ...

    Word has leaked out that in its new budget, the Obama administration intends to terminate NASA’s planetary exploration program. The Mars Science Lab Curiosity, being readied on the pad, will be launched, as will the nearly completed small MAVEN orbiter scheduled for 2013, but that will be it. No further missions to anywhere are planned.
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...to-blast-nasa/

    If this is true, it is unbelievable! There is absolutely no way this can be allowed to happen. My personal favorite mission, Kepler, will actually not even be able to complete its 3 year mission. I propose that if this happens, we create a petition immediately to the White House using their system.

    https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions#!/

    Any thoughts and suggestions on petition wording would be greatly appreciated, and it will need 25000 signatures. The faster 'we the people' can react an official announcement, the better. Occupy Space!

  2. #2
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    I'd take that with a grain of salt. A large grain. The Washington Times, which is owned by the Unification Church, is not what I'd consider a trustworthy source.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    I'd take that with a grain of salt. A large grain. The Washington Times, which is owned by the Unification Church, is not what I'd consider a trustworthy source.
    I totally agree with you, and I hope you're right. (hence the "If this is true..") Just want to be prepared, know what I mean?

  4. #4
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    Politics and religion here

    Thread closed pending moderator discussion

  5. #5

    Obama readies to blast NASA

    Did anyone see this? Is it true that President Obama is going to end NASA for good??.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...to-blast-nasa/

  6. #6
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    Zubrin -- Obama readies to blast NASA

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...to-blast-nasa/

    "word has leaked out" -- not the most convincing evidence.

    I don't regard Zubrin as credible. I sure hope he is wrong in this case.

  7. #7
    An article starting with "word has leaked out that" is a bit hard to discuss, since everything depends on the validity of that word.

    Anyway, I'd think there would be politically less sensitive places to cut the budget than in one of NASA's PR billboards...

  8. #8
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    I as well. NASA might not be the only space agency, not even the only space agency interested in exploring space, JAXA, ESA CNSA, even Russia is starting to get back into it and India has done some impressive early work.
    But this would still be a grave disservice to humanity.

  9. #9
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    After some discussion among the moderators, this thread is moved from Science & Technology to Space Exploration and reopened. As long as the discussion stays within the topic of NASA's budget, it is within the allowed exceptions of our no politics rule (exception quoted below)
    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    However, the following exceptions apply:
    A) Political impact upon space programs, exploration, and science.
    Beyond the already noted ownership of the Washington Times, let's keep any religious discussion out of this thread.

    And, as always, please keep the discussion polite and non-inflammatory.

    Thanks,
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eadfrith View Post
    Did anyone see this? Is it true that President Obama is going to end NASA for good??.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...to-blast-nasa/
    Eadfrith,

    First, welcome to BAUT.

    Second, I've merged your thread into this already exisiting thread on the same topic.

    Third, I would strongly suggest you review our rules, particularly if you are going to discuss politics here.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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  11. #11
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    Anything Obama proposes is DOA.

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    I'd really like to see some other source corroborating this story because it seems on the face of it insane. Even if Obama were willing to take the flak for such a radical cut how much would it actually save versus the whole US budget? It smacks of someone engaging in some scaremongering to be honest.

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    Anything Obama proposes from here on out is dead on arrival.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    I'd take that with a grain of salt. A large grain. The Washington Times, which is owned by the Unification Church, is not what I'd consider a trustworthy source.
    Do you doubt that the words are those of Robert Zubrin? If not, it is Robert Zubrin's words that must be taken with a grain of salt.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    I'd really like to see some other source corroborating this story because it seems on the face of it insane. Even if Obama were willing to take the flak for such a radical cut how much would it actually save versus the whole US budget? It smacks of someone engaging in some scaremongering to be honest.
    There's a parallel thread at nasaspaceflight. Blackstar (aka Duane Day) posted this. Doesn't verify Zubrin's claims, but still makes me anxious.

  16. #16
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    I've merged the third thread about this topic into the previous merger of the other two.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hop_David View Post
    There's a parallel thread at nasaspaceflight. Blackstar (aka Duane Day) posted this. Doesn't verify Zubrin's claims, but still makes me anxious.
    Well that version sounds more plausible, that there's going to be a flat/reduced science budget and something has to give. Since Congress was already discussing cutting the JWST is that really the shock announcement Zubrin is painting it as?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Commodore View Post
    Anything Obama proposes from here on out is dead on arrival.

    We will not go that way, this starts and ends here. This road will lead to partisan discussions which are off limits.
    All comments made in red are moderator comments. Please, read the rules of the forum here and read the additional rules for ATM, and for conspiracy theories. If you think a post is inappropriate, don't comment on it in thread but report it using the /!\ button in the lower left corner of each message. But most of all, have fun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by centsworth_II View Post
    Do you doubt that the words are those of Robert Zubrin? If not, it is Robert Zubrin's words that must be taken with a grain of salt.
    And Zubrin's words should always be taken with a grain of salt.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised at painful cuts, but he seems to be claiming more than that.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    And Zubrin's words should always be taken with a grain of salt.

    I wouldn't be at all surprised at painful cuts, but he seems to be claiming more than that.
    The Link Hop_David provided suggest that 'painful cuts' pretty much sums it up, the original article seems to be presenting a far more sensationalist view of what's happening.

  21. #21
    The Planetary Society is certainly taking the reports seriously. They have organised a special forum in conjunction with the Mars Society to discuss it.

    http://www.planetary.org/about/press...a_Turning.html

    Ozprof

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozprof View Post
    The Planetary Society is certainly taking the reports seriously. They have organised a special forum in conjunction with the Mars Society to discuss it.

    http://www.planetary.org/about/press...a_Turning.html

    Ozprof
    Lou Friedman calls Mars the 21st century "new world" - an analog to the 16th century Americas for the Europeans. I've seen Chris McKay advocate strapping 20 gigawatt nuclear thermal rockets to outer solar system comets to crash them into CO2 deposits at the Martian poles to induce runaway greenhouse on Mars.

    I see the Planetary Society as an arm of the Mars Society.

    Terraforming/colonizing Mars via Mars Direct is a non starter. If I were a congressman listening to the Planetary/Mars Society lobby, I would not be sympathetic.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hop_David View Post
    I see the Planetary Society as an arm of the Mars Society.
    What sort of evidence is there of such a statement? I don't see it that way AT ALL.

    CJSF
    "Soon the man who sweeps the room brings the secret telegram, 'COMMENCE OFFICIAL INTERPLANETARY EXPLORATION.' "
    -They Might Be Giants, "Destination Moon"

  24. #24
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    And then there is this post, which may be more encouraging.

    CJSF
    "Soon the man who sweeps the room brings the secret telegram, 'COMMENCE OFFICIAL INTERPLANETARY EXPLORATION.' "
    -They Might Be Giants, "Destination Moon"

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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    And then there is this post, which may be more encouraging.

    CJSF
    More encouraging, and frankly more believeable.
    I'm a cynical optimist. I think the only way out is through, but once we get through it'll be better. Very different, but better. Howard Tayler

    It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. Charles Darwin

    "It is the duty of the writers to seduce me into suspending my disbelief!" Paul Beardsley

    Power, Lord Acton says, corrupts. Not always. What power always does is reveal. Robert A. Caro

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by CJSF View Post
    And then there is this post, which may be more encouraging.

    CJSF

    Well, that is encouraging! I am also glad I am now aware of Mr Zubrins motives.
    Last edited by Extrasolar; 2011-Oct-28 at 11:20 AM. Reason: Grammar / correct quote

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extrasolar Flapjacks View Post
    ... If this is true, it is unbelievable! ...
    No need to make it conditional. If it is false, it is also unbelievable.
    I would suggest that in the future we all be slow in rushing to accept any science-in-politics stories published in the mainstream media. These seem like unusually contentious times, and few media sources are independent these days.
    Forming opinions as we speak

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by antoniseb View Post
    No need to make it conditional. If it is false, it is also unbelievable.
    I would suggest that in the future we all be slow in rushing to accept any science-in-politics stories published in the mainstream media. These seem like unusually contentious times, and few media sources are independent these days.
    Thanks for the advice, but if it was real, it would require a quick response from the community that cares most about this subject. I will gladly bring this kind of thing to the attention of this community because I am passionate about science and I know most of the people here are too. I would rather be wrong in such cases and look like a fool than be right and have done nothing.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hop_David View Post
    I see the Planetary Society as an arm of the Mars Society.
    The Planetary Society was founded in 1980 and has well over 100,000 members. The Mars Society was founded in 1998 and has about 10,000 members. I don't think either one is an arm of the other, but if it went either way, it would be the opposite of your claim. (Personal disclaimer: I'm a member of both.)
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek View Post
    The Planetary Society was founded in 1980 and has well over 100,000 members. The Mars Society was founded in 1998 and has about 10,000 members. I don't think either one is an arm of the other, but if it went either way, it would be the opposite of your claim. (Personal disclaimer: I'm a member of both.)
    On page 8 of Beyond The Moon the Planetary Society put forth four recommendations.

    Excerpts:

    "...the ultimate goal of which should be establishing the capability for human exploration of Mars"

    "In particular, human landings on the Moon should be deferred until after a new transportation and interplanetary flight capability is developed and validated."

    I find it ironic that the Planetary Society will say out of one corner of their mouth "hang together or hang separately" and out of the other tell moon advocates to go to hell.

    I still get letters asking me to rejoin the Planetary Society. I throw them in the trash.

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