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Thread: Kiefer Sutherland believes in aliens

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    Kiefer Sutherland believes in aliens

    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Ente...ns_668995.html

    I'm not sure this is really news but there you have it. Kiefer Sutherland believes.

    The 44-year-old actor thinks it is 'arrogant' to suggest humans are the only form of life in the universe, and often ponders about extra-terrestrials when he looks up at the stars.
    There is that 'arrogant' word again. The one non-believers hate the believers using.

    'It would be very arrogant to believe this is the only planet that could sustain some kind of life.'
    Jodie Foster recently donated cash to the Search of Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute (SETI) in California to help it continue its research work following US federal and California cuts to the budget.

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    Well, if a celebrity believes it, it must be true...
    I'm a cynical optimist. I think the only way out is through, but once we get through it'll be better. Very different, but better. Howard Tayler

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    "It is the duty of the writers to seduce me into suspending my disbelief!" Paul Beardsley

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    Speaking of Keifer, it's time to watch The Lost Boys again; Halloween season.

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    So what?

    There's quite a big difference between believing that alien, intelligent life "must" exist in the universe, and believing that every light in the sky that someone doesn't immediately have an explanation for is actually an alien spaceship on a sight-seeing Earth tour, not to mention performing distasteful medical experiments.
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    The question of alien life should not be a question of 'belief', but a question of evidence and of probabilities. It seems very likely to me that aliens exist, but I do not 'believe' in them. We just haven't got any evidence for them yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by we are not alone View Post
    I'm not sure this is really news but there you have it. Kiefer Sutherland believes.
    So what?

    There is that 'arrogant' word again. The one non-believers hate the believers using.
    I hate the misuse of the word. It is equally "arrogant" (i.e. not arrogant at all) to believe A with no evidence as it is to believe not-A with no evidence.

    It is arrogant to say that your (unevidenced) belief is better than someone else's.

    Jodie Foster recently donated cash to the Search of Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute (SETI) in California to help it continue its research work following US federal and California cuts to the budget.
    Good for her. But how is that relevant?

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    Quote Originally Posted by we are not alone View Post
    There is that 'arrogant' word again. The one non-believers hate the believers using.
    You really don't get it, do you?

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    So... let me get this straight. We care about what Keifer Sutherland thinks. This is a guy who pretends for a living. How is his beliefs, right or wrong, sober or fanciful, any different than say, my neighbor, who drives a truck for a living?

    A 'lot' of people think that due to the size and scope of the universe, the number of stars and planets and moons, especially the recent discovery of planets in other systems, that there 'must' be other life forms out there. K.S. isn't special in that regard.

    Last I heard though, we still have exactly zero evidence of them being there.

    TJ

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    Thread closed to allow for moderator discussion and to allow some to "cool off"

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    After some discussion we reopened the thread, but moved it from LiS to OTB
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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    Quote Originally Posted by we are not alone View Post
    There is that 'arrogant' word again. The one non-believers hate the believers using.
    Personally, I am not a "non-believer", I simply require evidence before believing...

    There is a difference.

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    I believe there may be life out there. Do I know there is life out there? No, because I have no actual evidence of it.
    I'm a cynical optimist. I think the only way out is through, but once we get through it'll be better. Very different, but better. Howard Tayler

    It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change. Charles Darwin

    "It is the duty of the writers to seduce me into suspending my disbelief!" Paul Beardsley

    Power, Lord Acton says, corrupts. Not always. What power always does is reveal. Robert A. Caro

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    Of course, his dad was in Invasion of the Body Snatchers; maybe he got a bit confused...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buttercup View Post
    Speaking of Keifer, it's time to watch The Lost Boys again; Halloween season.
    oddly enough, i've never seen that movie..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Of course, his dad was in Invasion of the Body Snatchers; maybe he got a bit confused...
    Maybe Invasion of the Body Snatchers was a documentary and Kiefer believes in aliens because he is one!

    I don't know, I'm just saying...
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    I have to say that the quoted statements in the OP are actually some I have no trouble at all agreeing with.

    Note that he's not saying they're here (at least in the quotes) and is basically recapping the standard non-creationist "we're probably not unique in the universe" statement.

    You'll note that most of the main skeptics say essentially the same thing and they don't get a mob deriding them for it here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    Apart from the other snarks, I have to say that the quotes in the OP are actually something I have no trouble with at all.
    Note that he's not saying they're here (at least in the quotes) and is basically recapping the standard non-creationist "we're probably not unique in the universe" statement.
    I agree. I just don't see why I should be interested in the opinion of someone I have barely heard of (even if I agree with him ).

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    Because by being more known to the average person than most skeptics, his statements may well have more impact. For good for once.
    Just look at the damage Ophraism has done to the general mind of America.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    Because by being more known to the average person than most skeptics, his statements may well have more impact. For good for once.
    Just look at the damage Ophraism has done to the general mind of America.
    The fact that we (as a society, not us individually) give more weight to the opinions and beliefs of celebrities than "regular" people is a phenomenon that saddens me, but isn't one that is new or modern. The part that bugs me is that oft times, these people's view of the world is so skewed by their popularity, money, etc., that they in no way represent the "common man." Yet so many people are so willing to believe that they know better about any subject than anyone else, even if they have no particular qualifications in that regard.

    That said, no. I have no problem with someone saying "I think alien life must be out there somewhere." It's a statistically based opinion, and nothing more. Saying "aliens visit us all the time and even walk among us on a daily basis" is a bit different. I don't know the Keif's thoughts on that, but really don't care. In fairness, I don't care what my neighbor's thoughts on it are either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    Because by being more known to the average person than most skeptics, his statements may well have more impact. For good for once.
    But its just noise. For every celeb who (by chance or by education) says something sensible, there will be 10 or 100 spouting some sort of nonsense. Not because celebs are any more likely to talk nonsense than your average Joe (they may be, I don't know) but just because they get asked their opinion on everything.

    Just look at the damage Ophraism has done to the general mind of America.
    I have no idea what that means. (And that is not an invitation to expand on it )

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post


    I have no idea what that means. (And that is not an invitation to expand on it )
    That is probably for the best since in this case less is actually more.
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  22. #22
    I take this as a win and not loss to bad he is not as big as a celebrity as that short little guy who jumps on sofas.
    ...I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me.

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    The use of "arrogant" is a mischaracterisation and for that reason it is not good news.

    Not that it matters in the least what he thinks.

  24. #24
    Accepting a person's opinion simply because they are famous is silly. Ridiculing it for the same reason is equally silly.

    As it happens, I tend to agree: I can't imagine why life would only have occurred on Earth. What' so unique about this little rock, anyway? Some cliches are cliches because they are accurate: "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence." Since we don't know the answer (and we don't), give the man a break, I say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Daffy View Post
    Accepting a person's opinion simply because they are famous is silly. Ridiculing it for the same reason is equally silly.
    I don't ridicule it because he is famous. I ridicule it because it is inane, an unthinking reiteration of the uninformed opinion of the bloke down the pub.

    I mean, who are these people who say that no other planet can support life? Have you ever met one? Perhaps you have, but they were probably other blokes down the pub.

    I honestly don't believe that anybody with the relevant interest and education has ever said, "Hey, we're the only life in the universe!"

    Threads like this one, and that other one by We Are Not Alone, are serious misrepresentations. It is not a conflict between Those Who Believe There Are Aliens and Those Who Believe There Are No Aliens. It is a conflict between Those Who Work With The Available Evidence and Those Who Make Unsupported Claims And Assumptions.

    The only "arrogant" ones are those who cannot bear to admit that we don't know.
    Last edited by Paul Beardsley; 2011-Oct-24 at 08:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Beardsley View Post
    Threads like this one, and that other one by We Are Not Alone, are serious misrepresentations. It is not a conflict between Those Who Believe There Are Aliens and Those Who Believe There Are No Aliens. It is a conflict between Those Who Work With The Available Evidence and Those Who Make Unsupported Claims And Assumptions.

    The only "arrogant" ones are those who cannot bear to admit that we don't know.
    Which is why I didn't vote in the poll in the other thread. Neither choice ("I believe" or "I don't believe") fits my position.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln

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    Quote Originally Posted by we are not alone View Post
    http://bigpondnews.com/articles/Ente...ns_668995.html

    I'm not sure this is really news but there you have it. Kiefer Sutherland believes.
    And he should know. He's seen outside the universe. He's said so:

    When I look up at the sky on a clear night and see the wash of stars and planets, and everything that is outside our universe, I have to believe there is life everywhere.
    I'd like to know how he's been seeing outside the universe.


    There is that 'arrogant' word again. The one non-believers hate the believers using.
    I'm not a "non-believer" and I hate it too. I neither believe nor disbelieve in ET.

    Jodie Foster recently donated cash to the Search of Extraterrestrial Intelligence Institute (SETI) in California to help it continue its research work following US federal and California cuts to the budget.
    And . . . ? You don't have to believe in ET to donate to SETI. SETI is looking for evidence of ET - quite a different thing than insisting on beliefs.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Beardsley View Post
    I honestly don't believe that anybody with the relevant interest and education has ever said, "Hey, we're the only life in the universe!"
    Isn't that a No True Scotsman?

    Can't there be Lord Kelvins on the subject of exobiology?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkepticJ View Post
    Isn't that a No True Scotsman?
    No. I'm talking about people who have a reasonable understanding of how the solar system is made up, an idea of the conditions on the other planets and moons, and an awareness of the relatively recent discoveries of exoplanets, together with a school-level knowledge of biology and the curiosity to wonder how it all started.

    If it was a No True Scotsman fallacy, I would be hearing people claiming we are alone all the time, and each time I would be demanding a greater degree of education and interest.

    In fact the only people I've ever heard claim we are alone are people who think the Earth was created in six days or that spacecraft are all fakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkepticJ View Post
    Can't there be Lord Kelvins on the subject of exobiology?
    I don't know what that means.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Beardsley View Post
    I don't ridicule it because he is famous. I ridicule it because it is inane, an unthinking reiteration of the uninformed opinion of the bloke down the pub.
    I think you need to re-read the words of the article posted. The way I read his viewpoint was that he apparently feels (it wasn't a direct quote, btw) that it is arrogant to declare with certainty there is no other life in the universe. You said yourself: "The only "arrogant" ones are those who cannot bear to admit that we don't know. "

    Seems to me that you and he are in complete agreement. What's the problem?

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