AMC's "The Walking Dead" Season 2 (spoilers)

[TheBrett]

Is anyone else here following Season Two of "The Walking Dead"? Or "Walking Dead" in general? Personally, I loved the first season, short as it is. The zombies are handled well (for Romero-style zombies), and the characters are all rather interesting. There's some silliness (the CDC has a massive self-destruct system on a deadman's switch?), but overall the drama is good.

I also liked most of the premiere. The plot of the episode - trying to find the lost Sophia - was good, and the inability to find her by the end sadly realistic. The actual ending was a huge shocker, and I wonder if they'll actually have Carl die (it would be a divergence from the comic series, but the show has already diverged heavily from the comic). It would be a great way to introduce the "Romero Rules" of the story (anyone who dies without massive head trauma comes back as a zombie), and have Rick reveal that he knows this ever since the CDC Guy told him.

So far, I'm hopeful. The storyline still seems to be focused on the day-to-day struggle to survive, and that's what drew me into the series in the first place. Unfortunately, the comic this is based on leans heavily on the whole "Real Monster is Man" theme, and if the show decides to go into that pretty heavily, I might drop the series from lack of interest.

[Jim]

I watched the first season and I'll be watching this season. It is very, very good.

And, I don't think Carl will die.

[R.A.F.]

..and soon there will be another Zombie TV show based on the movie Zombieland.

[Paul Beardsley]

I've deliberately avoided reading most of your post to avoid spoilers, TheBrett, but wanted to contribute that they're starting showing series 2 tonight here in the UK.

So I will soon be in a position to read your post properly and comment on it soon!

[Fazor]

We're watching it.

***Spoiler alert? (very mild) *** I had read some complaints about the season premier being slow, but I didn't think it was any slower than most of the other episodes. That's what I love about tWD; every scene has a sense of despair, dread, suspense, stress, etc . . . but that doesn't mean every scene will end with a massive zombie attack. *** end spoiler ***

In all, I love the series to this point. But with the director being let go by incompetent network execs after season one, and a huge push by them to slash the show's budget, all we can do is wait and see if the series can continue the vibe and pace it's set up.

[TheBrett]

I was worried about that as well, since $750,000 lost per episode is a [very large chunk of the show's budget. That said, the show still looked pretty fantastic even with the budget cuts, and the zombies (if anything) actually looked better. I remember reading that Darabont was fighting with the AMC people about how frequently the zombies appeared on-screen before he was fired, and it looks like his successor won out.

I'm still wondering why AMC stuck it to the show so bad, when it's their highest rated original television program by far ("Mad Men" and "Breaking Bad" don't even come close). Is it simply that AMC actually owns "The Walking Dead", whereas "Mad Men" and "Breaking Bad" are owned by outside companies that could threaten to take the shows elsewhere if AMC put too much pressure?

I watched the first season and I'll be watching this season. It is very, very good.

I was astonished at how good it was when I watched it for the first time. I usually don't care for zombie shows/movies, but this was engrossing.

I think it's one of those shows that really should be watched all the way through, though. I watched the premiere episode streaming on AMC.com, and it really cut into the tension to have it interrupted by commercials every 10 minutes.

[Fazor]

I remember reading that Darabont was fighting with the AMC people about how frequently the zombies appeared on-screen before he was fired, and it looks like his successor won out.

Between the number of zombies and the number of abandoned vehicles and sprawling outdoor shots, I couldn't help but wonder if it was a "screw you, AMC" from the new director. A big, big part of me hopes it was.

I was astonished at how good it was when I watched it for the first time. I usually don't care for zombie shows/movies, but this was engrossing.

A thousand times yes! Zombies fall only to vampires in the list of pop cult subjects I couldn't care less about, but somehow The Walking Dead still grabbed me from the very first part of the first episode.

[TheBrett]

They might have saved some money on sets with that premiere. There was the one road set with all the corpses, and then the rest of the episode took place in what were probably cheap location shots. I also wonder if they'll kill off more characters, since the comic this is based on is supposedly notorious for doing that.

[geonuc]

Count me as one who helped drive the Season One ratings up. I loved the show. The premiere of Season Two - not so much. I definitely could have done without the scenes in that church and I'm getting annoyed that the characters don't do more to ensure their own survival.

Two examples of that last point: First, while stuck in Atlanta freeway traffic (nice touch, I thought) they post a lookout on top of the RV, who despite vigilance, fails to warn everybody in time for them to do more than hide under the cars. By this time, they should know that walkers come out nowhere and if they don't have a hundred meters of clear line-of-sight, they need to expect zombies. But no, they're wandering around the cars scavenging like there's no danger, except for the two mothers warning their children to stay close.

Second, why on earth would they leave Atlanta in that claptrap RV with a broken radiator hose? And the other vehicles aren't much better. Atlanta is a major metropolitan area and there are literally thousands of better vehicles to chose from laying about the city. What they need are several large four wheel drive SUV's. We shouldn't be forced to accept that every member of the group is too stupid to suggest better transportation when it's there for the taking.

[Buttercup]

Still don't understand the fascination with zombies.

[TheBrett]

Two examples of that last point: First, while stuck in Atlanta freeway traffic (nice touch, I thought) they post a lookout on top of the RV, who despite vigilance, fails to warn everybody in time for them to do more than hide under the cars. By this time, they should know that walkers come out nowhere and if they don't have a hundred meters of clear line-of-sight, they need to expect zombies. But no, they're wandering around the cars scavenging like there's no danger, except for the two mothers warning their children to stay close.

They had to spread out to find gas and the replacement parts for the RV. They didn't have the line-of-sight, but what else could they do if they wanted to get moving again as fast as possible?

On the other hand, their wandering around after the swarm is gone isn't so bright. I would chalk it up to them not being a particularly disciplined group (the tents and surprise attack last season are proof of that).

Second, why on earth would they leave Atlanta in that claptrap RV with a broken radiator hose? And the other vehicles aren't much better. Atlanta is a major metropolitan area and there are literally thousands of better vehicles to chose from laying about the city. What they need are several large four wheel drive SUV's. We shouldn't be forced to accept that every member of the group is too stupid to suggest better transportation when it's there for the taking.

They left Atlanta in a near-panicked flight after the CDC near-disaster. I doubt they were thinking clearly enough to make an extended stop to hunt for new vehicles, which would be dangerous as well (you can literally go around a corner and run into a horde of zombies, like what happened to Rick in Episode One of Season One).

In any case, radiator hose aside, the RV actually isn't a bad idea for a vehicle. It's a good "home base", since they could theoretically all get inside it, barricade the doors, and wait out a night free of zombie attack.

[Paul Beardsley]

I've watched it now. I actually thought it built on season one. The prayer scenes were a bit boring, but otherwise, I found the episode very suspenseful, probably because (as far as I know) none of the characters have charmed lives. The cooperation between characters was pleasing too - add me to the list of people who are bored with the "man is the worst monster" theme.

I did wonder why the people in the cars were apparently "dead dead". How did they die, and why didn't they come back?

And was it really confirmed that it's strictly Romero rules? That is, all the dead return rather than just those bitten? I don't remember the CDC guy saying this, but I'll take your word for it.

Buttercup - sorry you're missing out but nothing works for everybody.

[Paracelsus]

I'm definitely watching...LOVE this show. The season preview they showed last week was very spoilerish; for instance, did any of you catch that quick shot of **spoiler alert!!** Shane staggering in front of a huge herd of walkers? For those familiar with the graphic novel series, this scene will not be a surprise.

[TheBrett]

I've watched it now. I actually thought it built on season one. The prayer scenes were a bit boring, but otherwise, I found the episode very suspenseful, probably because (as far as I know) none of the characters have charmed lives. The cooperation between characters was pleasing too - add me to the list of people who are bored with the "man is the worst monster" theme.

I did wonder why the people in the cars were apparently "dead dead". How did they die, and why didn't they come back?

I don't get that either, since they apparently died so fast that they couldn't get out of their cars.

For those who have read the comics, was there some type of super-disease that killed a bunch of people before the zombies started rising? That's the best explanation I have for all the dead people conveniently rotting in their cars (and even that's a little iffy, since the disease would have to be dormant for a while before suddenly going active so fast that it killed people in their cars).

And was it really confirmed that it's strictly Romero rules? That is, all the dead return rather than just those bitten? I don't remember the CDC guy saying this, but I'll take your word for it.

Buttercup - sorry you're missing out but nothing works for everybody.

It hasn't been confirmed. I just suspect that it's either that, or the CDC guy told Rick that Lori was pregnant with Shane's child based off of the blood samples. I'm hoping it's something like that, since it would be hugely dramatic when the secret finally gets out.

[Doodler]

One of the reasons I like the show is that its not obsessed with the gore. It is there, but its concise, purposeful, and isn't overly revelled in. That was one of the big things that turned me off of the Romero zombies very quickly, but this series is easily watchable.

As far as the "zombie rules", it would appear that the disease has to be infected in order to result in re-animation. Which is fine, and internally consistent. Nothing says Romero's rules are absolute to all zombie fiction. The bodies in the cars make for a nice mystery, could have been a military response in desperation (seeing civvies being overrun and helpless, just nerve gas the lot of them and maybe that prevented re-animation), perhaps damage to the nervous systems from the zombie attacks was too severe to trigger re-animation, or they could have been trapped zombified until they dessicated beyond the point of even post-infectious animation, or suicides when they realized they were being overrun. One thing I noticed, not a lot of those bodies looked very chewed on, maybe just a production oversight.

[TheBrett]

I just watched this episode, and I liked most of it. It's clearly a "slow-down" episode after the premiere's shocking ending, and it allowed for both some character interaction and what looks to be the big "Shane alone getting chased by a bunch of zombies" preview shot for Season Two. About the only thing that I didn't like was the opening flashback scene - they should have started with the next scene, where Rick is running with Carl in his arms.

1. We've still got no sign of Sophia yet, but I think she'll turn up one way or another in the next episode. The most ghastly thing would be for her to be either zombified or infected, although I wonder if the show will throw Carol a bone and actually have her turn out to be okay. Probably not, since Carl seems likely to pull through.

2. Darryl continues to impress (good thing he kept his brother's Drug Stash!). He's easily the most capable survivalist in the group, and one of my favorite characters.

3. The zombie that almost got Andrea was really quiet until it was right on top of them. Did it sneak up behind a tree, out of their sight? Or was it just stumbling around there until they had the misfortune to go right through its vicinity?

4. These zombies are definitely faster than typical shuffling Romero zombies, especially when they've identified prey. The swarm chasing Fat EMT Guy and Shane were moving at a slow job/fast walk pace, enough that they had to actually run to stay ahead of them.

As far as the "zombie rules", it would appear that the disease has to be infected in order to result in re-animation. Which is fine, and internally consistent. Nothing says Romero's rules are absolute to all zombie fiction. The bodies in the cars make for a nice mystery, could have been a military response in desperation (seeing civvies being overrun and helpless, just nerve gas the lot of them and maybe that prevented re-animation), perhaps damage to the nervous systems from the zombie attacks was too severe to trigger re-animation, or they could have been trapped zombified until they dessicated beyond the point of even post-infectious animation, or suicides when they realized they were being overrun. One thing I noticed, not a lot of those bodies looked very chewed on, maybe just a production oversight.

I think it was probably a production convenience as well, but that's a good theory. It's about the only thing that really makes sense as to why all those people seemingly died at the wheel without reanimation - some of them looked chewed on, but none of them look like they were shot, or that there was a struggle.

I don't think Romero rules are universal. The main reason why I thought they applied is because that's the case in the comic this is based on, and "everyone who dies becomes a zombie" is one of the best ways to get a Zombie Apocalypse. I don't think an infection spreading by bite would lead to total collapse of government, since you could form quarantine zones like World War Z.


EDIT: I'd definitely recommend watching the Season Three trailer at AMC.com. They come across a zombie hanging from a rope around its neck. Did the guy try to hang himself after being bit, or did he transform after committing suicide by hanging himself? The only other suicide we've seen so far this season was the guy in the tent who shot himself in the head.

[BigDon]

Only problem I had during the first season was the overly contrived "washing your clothes on a rock" scene. I may have made rude hand gestures with accompaning raspberries.

N'uh it would never happen like that. Why, for one, that presumes women automatically know how to do that. A sexist attitude right off the start.

(Vocally seconded by a woman I know who was married to a Nigerian and living just outside of Lagos. Even with the use of "negative reinforcement" permited by husbands there it took her more than a month of daily work to get the wash even passible. She'd get a switching whenever one of the other women in the village mentioned the cleanliness of his shirts en passant.)

BUT the main reason it wouldn't happen is simply because every single house and building is a Goodwill facility now. Free cloths for everybody!

When you reach too far to try and make a social point you just end up making yourself look asinine.

[HenrikOlsen]

And for that matter, why not raid a couple of antiques dealers and get a real washing board plus any other now-relevant tech?

[BigDon]

And for that matter, why not raid a couple of antiques dealers and get a real washing board plus any other now-relevant tech?

Back in the eighties somebody came up with a hand turned washing machine that cleaned clothes by forcing the water through the weave of the cloths and did it in *three* cranks of the handle.

Had marketing issues as it didn't need detergent either.

[geonuc]

BUT the main reason it wouldn't happen is simply because every single house and building is a Goodwill facility now. Free cloths for everybody!

When you reach too far to try and make a social point you just end up making yourself look asinine.

That was basically my point about the vehicles. Sure, there are a lot of zombies around, but there seems to be a lot of places where there aren't too many, or any at all. It's those places that can be raided for vital necessities. A pharmacy would have been a good place to raid, as well, as we learned last show. Not to harp on it, but especially that RV makes no sense. Yes, I know a nice, functioning RV would be great, but the risk of that piece of junk breaking down in the middle of a pack of zombies seems pretty high.

This season is just not living up to season one and I'm disappointed. I'd like the show to better portray the situation as it is: we have a group of people - mostly strangers - living in a world where there are suddenly hordes of deadly zombies and not much in the way of safety. There's plenty of story lines available that would involve these people doing what you know they actually would do: try to stay alive while seeking that safety. But instead we're getting scripts that involve a lot of gross stupidity.

For one more thing - every one of them should be carrying a 12 ga pump shotgun. I believe you'll find one (or similar) in the trunk or cab of all Atlanta police cars. Many will not be there now because the officers would have deployed them during the initial stages of the zombie infestation, but there are a lot of police cars in Atlanta.

[Jim]

And gun dealerships. I don't think background checks are a prerequisite anymore.

Yeah, the RV is nice. They could use 2 or 3. But why not find new ones? Ditto the cars. (An open Jeep. Really?)

But, it all serves the plotline, so you ignore the dumb stuff (like, why are zombies still milling around an old FEMA medical facility?) and get engrossed in the story.

[Fazor]

The RV is the big one; earlier in the series when it broke down it was always in a place where they needed to fix it. Having it break down in the middle of a road just jam packed with perfectly good cars, and the first thing they still think is "We gotta fix this thing!" . . . that, I thought, was weird.

[Doodler]

I think we all need to keep in mind that as a work of enclosed fiction, certain contrivances have to be allowed for in order to keep the series interesting from week to week. As far as the RV goes, its Dale's RV, its his connection to his life. People do get sentimental, ya know? Especially when the world goes mad. I remember that from the series premiere when Rick and Morgan were joking about how Morgan's wife went immediately to family photos when the decision came down to evacuate and how Rick knew Laurie was alive because those same types of photos were missing.

People need physical anchors to steady their reality when their reality is taking heavy broadsides. Dale has his RV, Darryl his bike (bike?!), and Andrea has the gun her father gave her.

[BigDon]

Yes, you're quite right Dood.

That was in my mind as well but I didn't see it appling to dirty socks and underwear.

You know how many sets of BVD's you could stow in that RV in twenty minutes?

[Paul Beardsley]

I'm behind you all but I caught up this evening.

I thought it was going to be an episode without walkers. (It can be done. UFO did two episodes without UFOs, and another two in which they were peripheral to the story.) Then I thought there'd just be that one in the woods. The ending proved something of a cliffhanger after that!

I'm struck by how good it is in terms of TV drama. It's not Dawn of the Dead dragged out over interminable episodes, and it's not a soap with zombies. It feels like it's about believable people, all fallible but not needlessly and tiresomely unpleasant, as they tend to be in these things - that stuff we talked about last week about the hackneyed "man is the monster" blah.

So how did the girl do such a good job of getting herself completely and utterly lost? It wasn't that far back to the road! Has she been eaten? Will she be eating? Is there a living bloke in the forest who just buries people alive? And what of the boy? Will he die? If so, will he stay dead because he hasn't been bitten, or will we get clarification of the rules? And will I start learning character names?

[TheBrett]

I just watched the latest episode about 20 minutes ago.

I liked it, although I think the budgetary limitations are starting to show. There were a lot of one-on-one talking scenes, like last episode. Some of them were good, but others made me wince a bit (such as Glen's attempt to pray). The "zombie school" scenes were still quite good though, although I'm wondering how Shane managed to escape a broken leg on that fall.

Speaking of Shane, that was a cold-blooded decision he made. I'm not really surprised, though - Shane has shown signs of ruthless pragmatism since the first season, and he probably decided that they would both die (along with Carl) if he didn't leave Otis as bait. It's actually interesting how they flipped your view on that scene within mere minutes. You start out thinking that Shane is once again going to have a stroke of good luck/good decision-making turn to ash in his mouth . . . and then you find out why they didn't show his escape from the school before then. He seems to be taking a turn for the worse, exacerbated by the situations they run into (plus the fact that Lori still has feelings for him, and isn't quite willing to let go of him).

It was a little annoying that the Sophia and Carl situations are still not resolved. Sophia is still missing (and the next episode preview doesn't give me confidence that she's going to be found). Carl seems to be stabilized, but Rick's Group is wearing out their welcome at the Farm, and they'll probably have to move him soon.

I wonder if the Farm People will simply get left behind, or if the Farm will get overrun. They seem fairly lax about security aside from their gated fence, with nobody regularly watching the outside of the house, no attempts to fortify the lower levels of the house, and doing stuff like Otis running around hunting in the woods all alone before Carl got shot.

In any case, I'm hopeful for next episode! We've got a season more than twice as long (13 episodes), and AMC just announced that the show has been renewed for a third season. Hopefully they won't screw with the budget as much for Season 3 as they did for Season 2.

[Paul Beardsley]

Er, are you on episode 3 already?

[Fazor]

Er, are you on episode 3 already?

Yeah; the new episodes air Sunday nights here in the States, and I think you poor chaps are like a week behind.

[Jim]

I just watched the latest episode about 20 minutes ago. ...

Okay, if you haven't seen Save the Last One yet and want to keep some semblance of surprise, stop reading!

You could almost make a case for Shane making a pragmatic decision for Carl's well-being, but that horse don't fly.

First, had he been making a truly selfless, Carl-centric decision, he would have sacrificed himself. Otis has a wife waiting for him. Shane has a best friend whom he cuckolded and that best friend's faithless wife.

Second, how long did it take for him to knee cap Otis, fight with him, get his hair pulled out, beat Otis soundly, and still make it almost to the truck before the zombies got to Otis? It would seem there was a very good chance they could both have made the truck safely.

Third, he still had one bullet (in Otis' gun, which I think I saw him wrestle away from Otis). Why not at least try to shoot Otis in the head and end his pain/prevent his zombification? He's obviously a good shot based on the zombies he downed while running away. He could have pulled off a round from the safety of the truck. Nothing to lose.

Shane, selfless? Nah. Shane saved Shane and made points with Lori.

Oh, really, really neat about the hanging zombie. "A waste of a good arrow." Daryl's starting to become likeable.

[TheBrett]

Okay, if you haven't seen Save the Last One yet and want to keep some semblance of surprise, stop reading!

You could almost make a case for Shane making a pragmatic decision for Carl's well-being, but that horse don't fly.

First, had he been making a truly selfless, Carl-centric decision, he would have sacrificed himself. Otis has a wife waiting for him. Shane has a best friend whom he cuckolded and that best friend's faithless wife.

I'll re-watch it, but Shane told Otis at least once to leave him behind. Otis refused to do this, and that meant that they were both going to die because of Shane's injury and Otis' exhaustion.

Second, how long did it take for him to knee cap Otis, fight with him, get his hair pulled out, beat Otis soundly, and still make it almost to the truck before the zombies got to Otis? It would seem there was a very good chance they could both have made the truck safely.

That was a miscalculation on Shane's part. He probably under-estimated Otis's strength, and didn't think that he would get a good grip on him like he did.

Third, he still had one bullet (in Otis' gun, which I think I saw him wrestle away from Otis). Why not at least try to shoot Otis in the head and end his pain/prevent his zombification? He's obviously a good shot based on the zombies he downed while running away. He could have pulled off a round from the safety of the truck. Nothing to lose.

Otis was almost entirely swamped by zombies not long after Shane got away from him. I doubt he was alive by the time Shane was in the truck.

Shane, selfless? Nah. Shane saved Shane and made points with Lori.

There's that, but I do think Carl was a factor. It also helped that Otis was the reason they were there in the first place.