Most Likely Rendezvous

[ZunarJ5]

I was wondering where I would go if I could choose one spot, one area of the galaxy to search for space faring alien life.

I thought that maybe the remnant of a supernova might be a bit of a hot spot (pardon the pun). All those fresh heavy elements just waiting to be plundered... and no natives to say otherwise.

They are seen from any where in the galaxy. Like a neon glowing sign proclaiming "Get your resources here!" I can picture a supernova drawing space faring life like a flame draws a moth.

Is this possible? Or have I misunderstood some basic facts that would make this unlikely?

If this idea is bogus... where would you look if you had the choice?

[Hornblower]

I was wondering where I would go if I could choose one spot, one area of the galaxy to search for space faring alien life.

I thought that maybe the remnant of a supernova might be a bit of a hot spot (pardon the pun). All those fresh heavy elements just waiting to be plundered... and no natives to say otherwise.

They are seen from any where in the galaxy. Like a neon glowing sign proclaiming "Get your resources here!" I can picture a supernova drawing space faring life like a flame draws a moth.

Is this possible? Or have I misunderstood some basic facts that would make this unlikely?

If this idea is bogus... where would you look if you had the choice?

I think the heavy elements in the ejecta of a recent supernova would be so thinly dispersed that harvesting them in anything more than tiny traces would be impractical. It would be like trying to extract useful quantities of gold from sea water. There is lots of it there, but in vanishingly dilute solution. On dry land we have a chance of finding flecks and even a few nuggets.

I would prefer to look for unexploited rocky planets, where the dirty work of differentiation and concentration into mother lodes has been done by natural processes.

[ZunarJ5]

I think the heavy elements in the ejecta of a recent supernova would be so thinly dispersed that harvesting them in anything more than tiny traces would be impractical. It would be like trying to extract useful quantities of gold from sea water. There is lots of it there, but in vanishingly dilute solution. On dry land we have a chance of finding flecks and even a few nuggets.

I would prefer to look for unexploited rocky planets, where the dirty work of differentiation and concentration into mother lodes has been done by natural processes.

Hmmm...

I suppose to get anything useful out of the violent death scene of a star one would need to invent some sort of ram scoop like tech that could "pan" for elements in the ocean of space.

Even if you had this tech, now that I think about it, the nebula surrounding a newly formed or forming star might be a better prospect for this kind of resource gathering.

Am I still off?

Running around haphazard, checking under every rocky planet... there has got to be a better way to look for alien explorers.

I was hoping my SN idea held water... would be cool to think about such mutual points of interest in the galaxy that would draw interstellar explorers from all over.

[eburacum45]

A place where many different alien species might meet?
I'd go for Sagittarius A*.
A bit closer to home perhaps? Cygnus X-1 perhaps...

[ravens_cry]

Why a blackhole? Sure, it makes a good landmark, but the accretion disc puts out a fair chunk of radiation from matter swirling the drain. Depending on how much and what kind, that could be bad.

[Gomar]

have I misunderstood some basic facts that would make this unlikely?

nothing in the universe is unlikely... given enough time.
Imagine, 500 years ago telling a European that you could talk to someone in China without looking at them. Impossible, they would reply, simply a witches magic... we do have telephones now dont we?

Any high tech we have now is simply magical or impossible to humans just a few hundred years ago. TV, radio, cell phones, internet, space ships, walking on the Moon, etc.
Given a few thousand years, or even a million, could aliens be able to fly across the galaxy as easily as I could fly from NYC to Vegas? Sure. I see no violation of physics here.

Now, deduce from that fact the simple fact that no aliens have ever been to planet Earth, nor established outposts or colonies anywhere else, nor re-arranged planets, stars, nor built structures, and we come to a simple conclusion that space faring aliens do not exist.

[neilzero]

Hi Gomar. Let's not jump to unreasonable conclusions, from limited observations, even if the wo,wo gang does it frequently = your last paragraph. We have little evidence of no aliens on Earth, now or in the past. Our search of everywhere else has been extremely superficial. We think we know how the planets, stars and structures got arranged as they are, but we can not assume the arrangement is without alien tampering. Perhaps you were being sarcastic, facetious, or just tired of the wo, wo? Neil

[neilzero]

Hi Zunar, I don't know why the scientific community gets overly defensive of the mere possibility of advanced aliens elsewhere. I've personally examined the evidence for the ET hypothesis, and found it seriously short of verifiable facts, so I tentatively peg it about as probable as the average science fiction story. I think we can learn from playing what if, and trying to analyze where space faring civilizations might find it profitable to go. I will report if I get any likely ideas. Science fiction has helped inspire many of the recent advances, and occasionally even encouraged logical thinking. Neil

[ZunarJ5]

Hi Zunar, I don't know why the scientific community gets overly defensive of the mere possibility of advanced aliens elsewhere. I've personally examined the evidence for the ET hypothesis, and found it seriously short of verifiable facts, so I tentatively peg it about as probable as the average science fiction story. I think we can learn from playing what if, and trying to analyze where space faring civilizations might find it profitable to go. I will report if I get any likely ideas. Science fiction has helped inspire many of the recent advances, and occasionally even encouraged logical thinking. Neil

I agree. I understand that this forum is very focused on hard science... that is one of the reasons I so enjoy browsing and occasionally posting here. Though I am by no means a scientist or mathematician myself the insights provided by the input of such are extremely valuable to me, not only for my own internal musings but for the science fiction I enjoy thinking about and writing (for personal pleasure only at this point)

nothing in the universe is unlikely... given enough time.
Imagine, 500 years ago telling a European that you could talk to someone in China without looking at them. Impossible, they would reply, simply a witches magic... we do have telephones now dont we?

Any high tech we have now is simply magical or impossible to humans just a few hundred years ago. TV, radio, cell phones, internet, space ships, walking on the Moon, etc.
Given a few thousand years, or even a million, could aliens be able to fly across the galaxy as easily as I could fly from NYC to Vegas? Sure. I see no violation of physics here.

Now, deduce from that fact the simple fact that no aliens have ever been to planet Earth, nor established outposts or colonies anywhere else, nor re-arranged planets, stars, nor built structures, and we come to a simple conclusion that space faring aliens do not exist.

Much of the above is elementary. The last paragraph is certainly not even logical, never mind science.

Gomar, you state that because we have no evidence of space faring aliens that it is logical that they do not exist... but above you write about the affects of discovery and invention... In one paragraph you sound as if you believe that anything is possible and in the last you sound like one of those historical people who refused to believe people could communicate instantaneously across the globe just because it hadn't been done before.

I'm sorry, but I hadn't replied to your post because of confusion. I suppose I felt that maybe the misunderstanding was my fault, but neilzero's post made me aware that I was not the only one who raised their eyebrows at your comments.

I am interested if you can provide a more detailed reasoning behind your conclusion that space faring aliens do not exist.

[JustAFriend]

Another problem is thinking like an alien.

Just because you or humans find a supernova interesting may not translate to another species.

They might consider such spots sacred or taboo or just used up an not worth exploring.

[Gomar]

The whole problem regarding aliens that could fly across the galaxy, from star to star, or even from one galaxy to another is this:
If the aliens did have advanced enough technology to fly to Earth, they would've done so a long time ago. Is it possible someone was here 500,000 years ago? Yes, but why havent they left any probes, artifacts, garbage, settlements, burial grounds, etc. Why hasnt anyone returned or visited recently?
If there are billions of stars just in this galaxy, atleast say a dozen aliens would have come to Earth in 10,000 years.

Take the Aborigines of Australia or the Apaches for example. They were living in peace, not bothering anyone, when one day the Brits show up in Australia, conquer the natives, and colonize the land. The span of time is short, only 500 years from the Europeans settling in "America" to me posting this.

It is ifcourse possible that as soon as our radio or TV broadcasts or signs of nuclear explosions is detected they'll be on their way. Otherwise, if no signs of intelligence is shown on Earth, they wont bother visiting.

[ZunarJ5]

The whole problem regarding aliens that could fly across the galaxy, from star to star, or even from one galaxy to another is this:
If the aliens did have advanced enough technology to fly to Earth, they would've done so a long time ago. Is it possible someone was here 500,000 years ago? Yes, but why havent they left any probes, artifacts, garbage, settlements, burial grounds, etc. Why hasnt anyone returned or visited recently?
If there are billions of stars just in this galaxy, atleast say a dozen aliens would have come to Earth in 10,000 years.

Take the Aborigines of Australia or the Apaches for example. They were living in peace, not bothering anyone, when one day the Brits show up in Australia, conquer the natives, and colonize the land. The span of time is short, only 500 years from the Europeans settling in "America" to me posting this.

It is ifcourse possible that as soon as our radio or TV broadcasts or signs of nuclear explosions is detected they'll be on their way. Otherwise, if no signs of intelligence is shown on Earth, they wont bother visiting.

First, even if ET's have visited earth it does not mean they would leave behind evidence, contact us, or make their presence known in any way. A lack of evidence is not proof of non-existence.

Second, if there are ET's who can travel through space;
A. Who says they have the tech to reach us? It is a big universe... Just because you can travel the stars doesn't mean you can travel to all the stars or have yet.
B. Who says they even know we are here? It is a big universe... Our radio signals degrade over a very short period of time and are lost in the background noise of the universe. We are also just one small world around one dim star.
c. Who says we are interesting to them? It is a big universe... There are so many places to visit, it would take millions of years, even at faster than light speeds, to see them all. There may be other things in their "neck of the woods" far more interesting than a pre-interstellar culture on the verge of destroying itself.

I wasn't sure if your original post was fouled by a dismissive attitude toward my OP... I see that it was not and that you really seem to think that the lack of evidence for space traveling ET's is proof against their existence.

Only thing I can say is to restate... Lack of evidence is not proof against existence. I also want to make clear that I am not saying that I believe that space traveling ET's or ET's in any form exist. I just can't see making such a strong statement one way or the other without evidence to back it up. My OP was entirely speculation for fun.

[ZunarJ5]

Another problem is thinking like an alien.

Just because you or humans find a supernova interesting may not translate to another species.

They might consider such spots sacred or taboo or just used up an not worth exploring.

This is a problem... lol. We have no idea.

One thing I like to consider as a possibility... As the laws of physics are considered uniform through the universe and as a result similar patterns and matter/energy configurations can be found in all corners of space I wonder too if life may follow similar patterns.

Objects form into shapes from spheres to discs because they are the forms that make most sense according to the laws of physics. Why should space faring life not also take steps, from protoplasmic soup to bipedal humanoid, for the sake of simplicity and efficiency?

Just a thought... but it could be completely wrong and your original point remains completely valid.