Black Holes serving as port holes to other new Universe's

[starman720]

My impression of a wormhole is that as a star collaspe's into the black hole and its matter is consumed as it travels through the black hole...it is my theory it forms other new stars and universe's on the other side(or consider a new deminsion perhaps) this in turn may be causing a casading affect on the other side of the worm hole, as this event or reaction unfolds this could start the process of rebirth or creation of other new universe's. Or just another way of looking at it, perhaps this natures way of recycling matter on a grand scale!

Best Regards,
Sam Ghazaleh

[Ivan Viehoff]

As Peter Woit said a few days ago at http://www.math.columbia.edu/~woit/wordpress/?p=3913
(The) "rule of thumb is that the mention of wormholes in a popular science book, TV program, etc., indicates that real science is not what’s being discussed."

[neilzero]

Peter and Ivan seem to be saying, very low probability for black holes or worm holes being port holes to another Universe. Neil

[Shaula]

It's an old theory, been around for a long time. The basic problem is that all our theories break down at these extreme conditions. We have no predictive models so it is basically all just speculation and guesswork.

[ryanmercer]

I wouldn't want to be the poor guy that's gotta go in and find out haha, kinda like the ones that would attempt to use 'Crazy Eddie Drives' in the Mote in God's Eye.

[Solfe]

I wouldn't want to be the poor guy that's gotta go in and find out haha, kinda like the ones that would attempt to use 'Crazy Eddie Drives' in the Mote in God's Eye.

I am reading that book now. Very cool so far.

[BossaNova]

@StarMan270, good succinct explanation of the theory of black holes, but as Shaula pointed out, most of our theories and concepts surrounding physics break down when we talk about singularities.

I found this collection of videos about astronomy in general a while back http://www.shortform.com/bkrichardson/my. The first few are ones that everyone I'm sure has seen, but the 10th is a good summary of black holes and later there's a good video of Michio Kaku explaining the multiverse theory. I thought it was interesting at least. His book Physics of the Impossible goes over it as well. It's really dense, though. A tough read.

[ryanmercer]

I am reading that book now. Very cool so far.

The whole series is great.

[Noclevername]

As far as we know, black holes are just large dense masses whose escape velocity exceeds lightspeed. Since we can't observe what's happening inside them, we have no real way of knowing for sure, but there's zero evidence for them being portals to anywhere but deeper inside themselves.

[astromark]

Knowing what is a 'BLACK HOLE'... makes this and these ideas observed to be ridiculous as a concept..

Not a single strand of real science, none. The subject when treated as a religious faith is worthless rubbish..

I, challenge any and all to present to me information that might support such as is written of in this regard..

You can not. You will at best tell lies of what might be... in a work of FICTION.. thats all it is. Thats all it can ever be.

This is a forum of science. Not science fiction.

[astromark]

As far as we know, black holes are just large dense masses whose escape velocity exceeds lightspeed. Since we can't observe what's happening inside them, we have no real way of knowing for sure, but there's zero evidence for them being portals to anywhere but deeper inside themselves.

THIS is the TRUTH... can it be posted in massive type... BRAVO !

[Daffy]

Knowing what is a 'BLACK HOLE'... makes this and these ideas observed to be ridiculous as a concept..

Not a single strand of real science, none. The subject when treated as a religious faith is worthless rubbish..

I, challenge any and all to present to me information that might support such as is written of in this regard..

You can not. You will at best tell lies of what might be... in a work of FICTION.. thats all it is. Thats all it can ever be.

This is a forum of science. Not science fiction.

If speculation is forbidden, where do new, original ideas come from?

[Noclevername]

If speculation is forbidden, where do new, original ideas come from?

Speculation is not "forbidden". Speculation within the theories supported by existing evidence goes in one of the science or astronomy fora. Scientific speculation outside the mainstream goes in the ATM forum. Non-scientific speculation is not within the topics discussed on this board and goes elsewhere on the internet or face-to-face.

[Noclevername]

Knowing what is a 'BLACK HOLE'... makes this and these ideas observed to be ridiculous as a concept..

Not a single strand of real science, none. The subject when treated as a religious faith is worthless rubbish..

I, challenge any and all to present to me information that might support such as is written of in this regard..

You can not. You will at best tell lies of what might be... in a work of FICTION.. thats all it is. Thats all it can ever be.

This is a forum of science. Not science fiction.

Now hold your horses. Dismissing something as "rubbish" just because we have no way to observe it is almost as unscientific as blindly assuming it's true. We do not and according to all currently accepted theories cannot know what happens in the center of a black hole-- that's why they coined the term "singularity". It means a point at which all our assumptions break down. At the center of a black hole is an ineradicable question mark.

[pzkpfw]

Knowing what is a 'BLACK HOLE'... makes this and these ideas observed to be ridiculous as a concept..

Not a single strand of real science, none. The subject when treated as a religious faith is worthless rubbish..

I, challenge any and all to present to me information that might support such as is written of in this regard..

You can not. You will at best tell lies of what might be... in a work of FICTION.. thats all it is. Thats all it can ever be.

This is a forum of science. Not science fiction.

Infraction given. astromark, this is far too angry and far too rude. You are in essence correct (that's my opinion not necessarily an official BAUT stance) but you have a very bad habit of making this kind of strongly worded absolute "this is all rubbish!" post - and you do it too often. Next time the infraction will be bigger, and your current total is already pretty high.

Everybody else, let's not go further on this, please.

[astromark]

Now hold your horses. Dismissing something as "rubbish" just because we have no way to observe it is almost as unscientific as blindly assuming it's true. We do not and according to all currently accepted theories cannot know what happens in the center of a black hole-- that's why they coined the term "singularity". It means a point at which all our assumptions break down. At the center of a black hole is an ineradicable question mark.

So I climb down from my high horse.. just to argue whats truth whats not with 'Noclevername'
What I know of a Black Hole is science based. That pressure and densities are at extremes...
Tempreture and radiations ' Off scale' high. That the state of matter as we know it fails.

To attempt to enter such would be the end of you. You are not going any place else..
reduced to superheated plasma state. Microbic mater.

[grapes]

The way I heard the story (and a little googling bears me out), Carl Sagan was writing Contact, and asked Kip Thorne how to transport Ellie to distant stars and come back with no time passage, and Thorne came up with the old idea of wormholes. Thorne then went on to write a book, Black holes and Timewarps, Einstein's Outrageous Legacy, which has this blurb at Amazon, from Publishers Weekly:

Thorne, the Feynman Professor of Theoretical Physics at CalTech, here offers an accessible, deftly illustrated history of curved spacetime. Covering developments from Einstein to Hawking, he takes his readers to the very edge of theoretical physics: straight through wormholes--and maybe back again--past hyperspace, "hairless" wormholes and quantum foam to the leading questions that drive quantum physics. He even addresses the tabloid taunt that has tantalized him since 1988: Do quantum laws allow time travel? (In his foreword, Hawking suggests, "Maybe someone will come back from the future and tell us the answers.") Thorne is rigorous, modest and, true to the spirit of science, determined that readers move beyond the appeal of exotic answers and grasp the significance of quantum questions. This volume, a model of style, format and illustration, will speak eloquently to the readership, ranging widely in scientific literacy and interest, that such theoretical physics writers as Hawking and Feynman have established.

A quote from the first link:

From this question, Kip Thorne revitalized the whole modern field of the study of wormholes, a field which had lain dormant for a few decades until Thorne figured out how to make a wormhole people could actually travel through.

[astromark]

Out of kindness, I call what I see as 'fiction.'
The cold hard real fact is simple and clear..
If you accelerate into a Black Hole. You will not reach any place you might want to be...
ANY other notion of fact is not one. Its more of the afore mentioned RUBBISH.
That such foolish nonsense can be reported as good science... is as I said.. Nonsense.
Show me the science of your claim. Show me how any object of mass could survive such a environment.
You will fail. You die. Only in the minds of fiction writers can such a nonsense survive alive...
To turn your back on the science we know is not the best method of science is it ?
That such foolish nonsense is tolerated by so many is concerning...

[pzkpfw]

I suggest* you don't post in this thread again, astromark. Your opinion has already been noted, there's little to be gained by posting further angry tirades.

Second (1 point) infraction given.

(* but don't demand)

[astromark]

I thought I had softened my stance. I will tread as on thin ice.. and try not to break it. I am not angry.

I am disappointed. I would have made NO comment if this idea or ideas like it were to appear in the ATM pages.

It bothers me some, that voicing notions of portals and worm holes in regard to transporting matter to 'other sides.

Please oh please would some better able person than I come into this conversation with appropriate caution and respect..

and explain to the people that think a Black Hole might be what we know it is not... that its a gravity well. Not a portal.

I know that the science and tech., page should not be full of fiction.

Sorry to any and all that might have found offence in my manor and wordage.. and I will not post of this again.

[Noclevername]

It bothers me some, that voicing notions of portals and worm holes in regard to transporting matter to 'other sides.

Please oh please would some better able person than I come into this conversation with appropriate caution and respect..

People like Kerr, Schwarzschild, Hermann Weyl, Wheeler, and Einstein?