Skeptics / Crackpots / Inventors / Scientists

[iantresman]

A little bit of cynicism...

• Skeptic: Someone who can provide a hundred reasons why it is impossible to fly. Eg. Lord Kelvin, President, Royal Society, 1895: "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible".
  
• Crackpot: Someone who has a go.
  
• Inventor: A crackpot who succeeds.
  
• Scientist: Someone we trust to explain why it can be done, even though we trusted them to explain why it couldn't.
  
• Science Reporter: Someone who translates the words of a scientist into everyday language, but is unable to investigate the words of a skeptic or the actions of a crackpot. This is why there are no investigative science reporters. All other reporters (eg. political reporter) take the opposite stance, and don't believe a word told to them... by either side.
  
• Peer Reviewed Journal: A collection of documents with a price high enough to deter ley-readers, language terse enough to deter scientists outside their field, and peers that must remain anonymous and unaccountable in order to deter crackpots.
  
• Fringe Scientist: A scientist who can't get funding.
  
• Genius: A crackpot that succeeds AND gets funding.
  
• Received wisdom: That we know to be true, but isn't. Eg.:
  [list:2595999b69]
• We all know that Marconi invented the radio. He didn't, it was Tesla who has a patent to prove it.
  
• We all know that the Wright Brothers invented powered flight. They didn't, it was probably Gustave Whitehead who flew for the first time two years earlier (as reported in his local paper), but a contract with the Smithsonian Institute prevents them from claiming otherwise.

[*]Historian: "First there exists the innovation; Then some ridicule the innovation of being "impossible"; Then others attempt to steal the innovation and claim it as their own; Then, much later, when the innovation is in full use throughout society, there are those people who talk about the innovation and say, 'What's the big deal? It is obvious. Everybody knows that.'" -- Evan Soule, introducing Joseph Newman, 1998

Regards,
Ian Tresman[/list:u:2595999b69]

[Eta C]

You forgot to add one more.

Fraud: Someone who started out as a crackpot and tried to market his idea to the unsophisticated long after it was obvious that it was wrong.

Joe Newman and his energy machine are a classic example. Yet another perpetual motion snake-oil salesman. I know I keep referring to his book, but a read of Robert Park's Voodoo Science is in order to get the story of Joe. Tell me Ian, has Joe disconnected his house from the power grid yet?

As long as we're being cynical, here's another thing to ponder. The old chesnut goes "Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you." For those (and you know who you are) who never met an ATM idea they didn't like I'd paraphrase it this way:

Just because your idea challenges the current standard models doesn't mean that it's right

[Tim_t7]

How about...

Skeptic: Someone who can provide a thousand reasons why you can't get out of your armchair.

Crackpot: Someone who gets out of the armchair for no reason at all.

Inventor: Someone who provides a method of getting out of the armchair without having to make an effort. Usually by providing some sort of interim device like an armchair on wheels.

Scientist: Someone who theorises what it would be like to get out of the armchair but can also argue with fellow scientists as to why it would be a bad idea. This is normally all accomplished from an armchair.

Science Reporter: Someone who sits in an armchair without understanding why, but is full of other peoples opinions.

Peer Reviewed Journal: A good reason to sit in an armchair.

Fringe Scientist: Someone who sits on a stool.

Genius: Someone who is comfortable in an armchair.

Received Wisdom: Someone else told me to sit in an armchair.

Historian: Someone who has been sitting in an armchair for some time.

Fraudster: Someone who is pretending to sit in an armchair but is in fact sitting on a stool. This is ok until he sells you the armchair.

[ToSeek]

Fraudster: Someone who is pretending to sit in an armchair but is in fact sitting on a stool. This is ok until he sells you the armchair.

Or, more precisely, he sells you the stool while calling it an armchair.

[Cougar]

• Skeptic: Someone who can provide a hundred reasons why it is impossible to fly. Eg. Lord Kelvin, President, Royal Society, 1895: "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible".

I think this is inaccurate and misleading. A skeptic is one who is skeptical about your claim that you can fly until you demonstrate you can by actually flying.

[milli360]

A little bit of cynicism...

I think you could use a bit more...

This is why there are no investigative science reporters. All other reporters (eg. political reporter) take the opposite stance, and don't believe a word told to them... by either side.

Really??

We all know that the Wright Brothers invented powered flight. They didn't, it was probably Gustave Whitehead who flew for the first time two years earlier (as reported in his local paper), but a contract with the Smithsonian Institute prevents them from claiming otherwise.

Who's "them"?

This has come up before, and I seem to remember it's not as clear cut as you make it seem.

[beskeptical]

• Skeptic: Someone who can provide a hundred reasons why it is impossible to fly. Eg. Lord Kelvin, President, Royal Society, 1895: "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible".

I think this is inaccurate and misleading. A skeptic is one who is skeptical about your claim that you can fly until you demonstrate you can by actually flying.

Thanks Coug.

[Ut]

Ooo, my turn!

Skeptic: Someone who only believes peer reviewed journals.


Crackpot: Someone who strongly opposes peer reviewed journals.

Inventor: A grossly underpaid engineer, who may or may not read peer reviewed journals

Scientist: Someone who writes for peer reviewed journals.

Science Reporter: Someone who relays press releases so you don't have to read peer reviewed journals.

Peer Reviewed Journal: A book of papers everyone wants you to cite, while not telling you that you A) that you can't afford to even hear the book's name whispered and B) that you can access it online for free through the school's webproxy.

Fringe Scientist: Someone who writes for peer reviewed journals, but who never gets published.

Genius: Someone who realizes that they can access peer reviewd journals online for free through the school's webproxy without having to be told.

Received Wisdom: The school's library has a copy of that particular peer review journal.

Historian: Someone who informs you that the library no longer stocks hardcopies of peer reviewd journals.

Fraud: Someone who tells you they have the library's latest copy of the peer reviewed journal.

[soupdragon2]

Good work Mr Tresman.

I think the Science Reporter and Peer review def'ns are the most apposite.

[Dgennero]

And we have the saying about...

specialist: Someone who learns more and more about less and less until he knows everything about nothing.

generalist: Someone who learns less and less about more and more until he knows nothing about everything.

[TriangleMan]

How about . . .

amateur: someone who reads magazines that have articles that discuss articles from peer-reviewed journals, rather than reading the peer reviewed journals himself.

[carolyn]

How about...

Skeptic: Someone who can provide a thousand reasons why you can't get out of your armchair.

Crackpot: Someone who gets out of the armchair for no reason at all.

Inventor: Someone who provides a method of getting out of the armchair without having to make an effort. Usually by providing some sort of interim device like an armchair on wheels.

Scientist: Someone who theorises what it would be like to get out of the armchair but can also argue with fellow scientists as to why it would be a bad idea. This is normally all accomplished from an armchair.

Science Reporter: Someone who sits in an armchair without understanding why, but is full of other peoples opinions.

Peer Reviewed Journal: A good reason to sit in an armchair.

Fringe Scientist: Someone who sits on a stool.

Genius: Someone who is comfortable in an armchair.

Received Wisdom: Someone else told me to sit in an armchair.

Historian: Someone who has been sitting in an armchair for some time.

Fraudster: Someone who is pretending to sit in an armchair but is in fact sitting on a stool. This is ok until he sells you the armchair.

You see, THIS is why I keep coming back thankyou for making me laugh, Hope you don't mind but this is going up on the wall at work.

thankyou and big hugs one an all. now back to work I think.

[soupdragon2]

Skeptic: Someone who demands proof for other people's ideas, and yet is happy to believe in hypothetical hocus pocus like Dark Matter and Black Holes, et al, with no proof whatsoever.

Crackpot: Someone who dares to challenge the mainstream.

Inventor: Someone who is looking for permanent work.

Scientist: Someone who's almost smart enough to be philosopher.

Science Reporter: Definitely not smart enough to be a philosopher.

Peer Reviewed Journal: Censorship of ATM ideas.

Fringe Scientist: Someone who is prepared to consider ATM ideas to the detriment of their career.

Genius: Posthumous acclaim, though frequently of the wrong person.

Received Wisdom: Lies, all too often.

Historian: A creative art, generally without pictures.

Fraud: Dark Matter and Dark Energy research budgets.

[Eta C]

Ah, the crackpot as hero. Don't you love the assumption of moral superiority totally relieved of the requirement provide any evidence. Soups, you are wrong in at least one of your assertions here. Black holes have been observed. Check out the Chandra x-ray observatory site for images (I don't have the site at hand).

My offer of a bet still stands. A bottle of wine says that the Higgs Boson (and I'll toss in Dark matter as well) are both found before your pet ATM concept (and conceit) the Electric Universe replaces General Relativity as the theory of gravity.

Finally, may I add, that I find your attitude in this post repugnant. You impugn the integrity of every scientist throughout the world. At the moment I'm disgusted. Perhaps someday I'll be merely amused.

[soupdragon2]

Lighten up Eta C. :wink:

What was the time frame for the bottle of wine?

I say we won't have discovered Higgs Bosons, Gravitons, or Dark Matter before 2112. If we discover 2 of these before then, I'll buy you a bottle.

Can I recommend that you buy my bottle now, as it will be a good vintage by then. Thank you.

[paulie jay]

Skeptic: “I’ll believe your theory of ‘dark chocolate’ once you’ve given me a taste. In the meantime I’ll stick to milk chocolate thank you very much”

Crackpot: “I’ve got dark chocolate – and orange chocolate – and potato chocolate – and granite chocolate - AND YOU CAN”T PROVE OTHERWISE. Who knows what alien technology can achieve!?! It’s the government who won’t let you see the dark chocolate.”

Inventor: “It looks like milk chocolate, but it’s even better. I’ve given a piece to a colleague for testing and he promised me that he won’t sneak off and make a fortune out of it behind my back. I’m thinking of calling it Chocus Almostblackius.”

Scientist: “We’ve long suspected the existence of dark chocolate, but without funding we’ve never been able to provide conclusive proof.”

Science Reporter: “You’ll never sell anything called ‘Chocus Almostblackius’. Let’s dumb it down to ‘Mud Blocks’ and you’ll have a winner!”

Peer Reviewed Journal: “I know more about chocolate than you.”

Fringe Scientist: “I prefer Skittles.”

Genius: “I registered the name ‘Mud Blocks’ as a trade mark years ago. It’s pay up time!”

Received Wisdom: “A Mars a day helps you work rest and play.”

Historian: “In my day we had Chicken Dinner bars…”

Fraudster: “These carob bars are just like chocolate bars.”

Specialist: "Do these chocolate bars make my butt look big?"

Generalist: "It all tastes the same to me."

Amateur: "I've been told about it and although Ive never tasted it, it's delicious!"


Posted with tongue planted in cheek - all apologies made!

[craterchains]

Got some good chuckles and laughs out of this, yet there is some you all forgot.

The Humanitarian.
Discovers something profound. Drops it in their respective scientists and governments laps and goes off to pursue disclosure because they wanted to keep it secret.

The Denialist.
No matter what, and at all confrontations with known truth that is classified TOP SECRET, DENY, deny, deny, and lie, lie, lie. :roll:

The Information Control Agents. (Governments, Religions, ET’s on Earth)
If you can’t refute it, twist it, or flood the topic with meaningless dribble, distract, and what ever it takes get it off the screens. Attack and attempt to discredit the information, or the one giving it if that fails. But, GET IT OFF THE SCREENS.

EDDITED TO ADD
Looks down, what can I say? Except to add the term BAD in front of ET's. FOCL

[Musashi]

ET’s on Earth

[Ut]

Skeptic: “I’ll believe your theory of ‘dark chocolate’ once you’ve given me a taste. In the meantime I’ll stick to milk chocolate thank you very much”

...

Amateur: "I've been told about it and although Ive never tasted it, it's delicious!"


Posted with tongue planted in cheek - all apologies made!

You're my new hero, paulie jay.

[Gullible Jones]

Soup, I suggest that you drop that attitude of yours. You are being very arrogant; people have a right to be annoyed with you.

Craterchains, don't tell me you believe all that stuff...

[freddo]

Soupdragon's contribution is exactly why I hate threads like these.

[Tranquility]

I cant remember where I read this:

PURITAN - a person with the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, might be happy

[Sam5]

This is why there are no investigative science reporters.

There is one.

[freddo]

This is why there are no investigative science reporters.

There is one.

Perhaps, but the definition: "Someone who translates the words of a scientist into everyday language, but is unable to investigate the words of a skeptic or the actions of a crackpot."

Still fits that person. Maybe they shouldn't be?

[Wolverine]

All day, this thread has reminded me of a pertinent comment, which I'd refrained from posting. Seeing some of the later responses has pushed me off the fence.

The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- Sagan

[paulie jay]

Skeptic: “I’ll believe your theory of ‘dark chocolate’ once you’ve given me a taste. In the meantime I’ll stick to milk chocolate thank you very much”

...

Amateur: "I've been told about it and although Ive never tasted it, it's delicious!"


Posted with tongue planted in cheek - all apologies made!

You're my new hero, paulie jay.

I aim to please!

The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown. -- Sagan

WHAMMO!! =D>

That is a brilliant quote! Sure, sometimes the crazy geinius gets it right, but usually he/she is just plain crazy.

[Narthex]

Adroitly done, Ian.

But you may want to correct your typo of "ley-reader," unless they've got books by Devereux or Michell on their laps.

[Tim_t7]

A couple more to add...

Self confessed Believer: Someone who sits on the throne.

Tim_t7: Someone who likes to sit in an armchair but whos feet don't touch the ground.

(P.S. In England we have another meaning for The Throne that has little to do with royalty).

[Celestial Mechanic]

[Snip!](P.S. In England we have another meaning for The Throne that has little to do with royalty).

Fear not! Americans also use the term "The Throne" with that meaning! It's probably in common use throughout the English-speaking world.
:wink:

[Gullible Jones]

All day, this thread has reminded me of a pertinent comment, which I'd refrained from posting. Seeing some of the later responses has pushed me off the fence...

Thanks for posting that, Wolverine. This thread needed that.