Public nudity

[Stug III]

I thought I had posted this yesterday, but obviously not.

I come from a culture where we don't get undressed in public, we don't go to beaches, we (men as well) don't show flesh in public. And as I'm a Brummie it was a bit academic as I didn't see much sunshine growing up.

I was persuaded onto a Spanish beach yesterday and was assailed by the sight of topless and more or less naked humanity. Most striking was a tall, 40ish Dutch woman who had had a mastectomy and had the confidence to go topless, and because of her confidence she retained her beauty. That and the fact that no-one stared, pointed or treated her as a freak helped restore my faith in humanity.

I'm not going topless any time soon but it was interesting to see other cultures at play.

[profloater]

I thought I had posted this yesterday, but obviously not.

I come from a culture where we don't get undressed in public, we don't go to beaches, we (men as well) don't show flesh in public. And as I'm a Brummie it was a bit academic as I didn't see much sunshine growing up.

I was persuaded onto a Spanish beach yesterday and was assailed by the sight of topless and more or less naked humanity. Most striking was a tall, 40ish Dutch woman who had had a mastectomy and had the confidence to go topless, and because of her confidence she retained her beauty. That and the fact that no-one stared, pointed or treated her as a freak helped restore my faith in humanity.

I'm not going topless any time soon but it was interesting to see other cultures at play.

Actually you did post this yesterday. (but you said you were were drunk)

[Perikles]

I don't think we British deal with the nudity/topless thing very well. This is probably to do with the weather which usually makes the issue academic, as you say. But then confronted with the expanses of flesh on the beach on holiday, Brits don't know how to react. To make it worse, some actually overact and don't realise the (usually unspoken) boundaries between beach (un)dress and elsewhere. Thus the supermarkets here in Tenerife have notices saying entrance will be forbidden to people in beachware. The notices are in English only!! And several times I have witnessed obviously British people in the supermarkets with virtually nothing on, which I actually find disgusting, usually because they are far too old to display themselves like that anywhere. I have never seen a local Spaniard behave like that.

Last week there was a report that Barcelona have issued a new law that nudity on the street is forbidden, and attracts a 500 euro fine. Semi-nudity (???) is a fine of 120-300 euros. This excludes all public areas specifically intended for such dress or lack of it, including beaches. But there had been various complaints that people were using the beaches and not bothering to put anything on when returning to their hotels. What I don't understand, apart from the concept of semi-nudity, is how you can impose an on-the-spot fine of 500 euros on somebody stark naked.

[Buttercup]

I'll admit I don't want to see public nudity; however, I say a big "you go girl!" to the woman with the confidence to go topless despite a mastectomy. She is obviously a cancer survivor who is relishing life. I wish this beautiful stranger a fabulous remainder of her life...

[Stug III]

Actually you did post this yesterday. (but you said you were were drunk)

No I didn't, when I posted I said I was hungover, dehydrated and jetlagged.

[PetersCreek]

Yes, this topic was posted yesterday but as it was worded then, it was deemed inappropriate for BAUT and was removed. That's one of the reasons we strongly discourage posting while intoxicated. This thread looks much better. Let's hope it stays that way.

[Stug III]

Last week there was a report that Barcelona have issued a new law that nudity on the street is forbidden, and attracts a 500 euro fine. Semi-nudity (???) is a fine of 120-300 euros. This excludes all public areas specifically intended for such dress or lack of it, including beaches. But there had been various complaints that people were using the beaches and not bothering to put anything on when returning to their hotels. What I don't understand, apart from the concept of semi-nudity, is how you can impose an on-the-spot fine of 500 euros on somebody stark naked.

I am in Barcelona and I didn't see anyone on the street underdressed, I suspect Sitges might be different though, particularly after dark.

[Strange]

What I don't understand, apart from the concept of semi-nudity...

This is familiar in England on any sunny weekend when the temperature rises above about 15° - suddenly the supermarkets are full of men in swimwear and flip-flops, showing off their beer guts and buying beer, sausages and charcoal.

[Fazor]

This is familiar in England on any sunny weekend when the temperature rises above about 15° - suddenly the supermarkets are full of men in swimwear and flip-flops, showing off their beer guts and buying beer, sausages and charcoal.

Yeah; see I'm not even comfortable mowing my lawn without a shirt on because I'm not fit; though every day I see countless guys doing just that who are in worse shape than me. But that begs the question; is the problem then with them or with me?

(To be fair, I didn't really like to be shirtless even when I was in shape, except when swimming or immediately after)

[Perikles]

I am in Barcelona

Your location gives Kandahar. I'm off to look at Google Earth...

[profloater]

Nudity concensus, time and a place etc., I think I am relaxed about nudity but remember being really shocked working in an office in the UK where one male colleague thought it was normal to strip off to his pants because it was hot. It was so uncomfortable I had to think about why. I decided it was a taboo about intimacy in the workplace rather than a public health issue, the inverse of the uniform effect creating an impression of functionality and status. It manifests in a littoral way as a nude person migrates from the seaside towards the enclosed spaces. Maybe however there is a remnant of atavistic threat behaviour, a naked man in a public space might be getting ready to fight? Is that possible? The current "slut marches" are relevant too perhaps.

[Mercier]

I'm off to look at Google Earth...

It doesn't really have enough resolution to allow a good look. Often you can't even really pick out the people, let alone tell whether they're wearing clothes.

[Swift]

It doesn't really have enough resolution to allow a good look. Often you can't even really pick out the people, let alone tell whether they're wearing clothes.

Thank goodness for some things.

[blueshift]

My Danish relatives came to visit us here in the states when I was a small child and they were puzzled by American attitudes but seemed to understand it. My cousin Ingar explained that her first impression at a nude beach as a child was how all the scars from either surgery or torture as prisoners of war on the elderly caught her attention the most. She felt it taught her to understand their grumpiness that she used to dislike and fear. She would then become helpful and more caring toward them.

[grapes]

bbbbbb

It doesn't really have enough resolution to allow a good look. Often you can't even really pick out the people, let alone tell whether they're wearing clothes.

Then you got to use google streetview...

[The_Radiation_Specialist]

That's one of the reasons we strongly discourage posting while intoxicated.

No way!

[Gillianren]

Personally, I have no problem with nudity in context. In the dorms at my alma mater, people would occasionally have "naked parties." Where they'd just sit around naked together. Nothing sexual happened. They were just naked. I had no problem with people doing that, if that was what they wanted to do, but I did think they ought to get the agreement of their roommates--and stay in their rooms. I was not comfortable with being offered Kool-Aid by naked people while I was in the elevator. Though I admit that normal people don't hang out in the elevator of an evening, either.

[HenrikOlsen]

I don't think we British deal with the nudity/topless thing very well. This is probably to do with the weather which usually makes the issue academic, as you say.

Except Denmark has pretty much the same weather and have far fewer hangups about nudity.

What I don't understand, apart from the concept of semi-nudity, is how you can impose an on-the-spot fine of 500 euros on somebody stark naked.

What I don't understand is if they expect to get paid immediately.

[Romanus]

This discussion is illuminating, since I live in a city where public nudity will put you in the clink (or more likely, worse) in less time than it would take to put your clothes back on...

[SkepticJ]

I don't think the Inuit are big on public nudity, either. Attitudes toward it, generally, seem to be tied to local climate, more than social mores. I wouldn't go walking around in Afghanistan in the buff even if it was socially acceptable.

The exception, of course, is the United States. We let the histrionic conservatives, lineal descendants of the Puritans, dictate our laws.

[PaulLogan]

i don't think it is tied to the climate.
i was born and raised in europe (germany). northern europe (with cool climate) is very relaxed about nudity, be it in public or on tv. southern europe (with pretty warm climate), however, has many more hang-ups, especially those in dominantly catholic countries (like italy and spain).

i have also noted that english speaking countries tend to be very prudish. usa is the worst, uk is a bit better and australians are comparatively more relaxed although still very prudish by nothern european standards.

it saddens me how people mess themselves up about something as natural as nudity.
i think it is a purely social convention. and a very unhealthy one if you ask me.

a real eye-opener how disturbed this can get was the showing of the alleged alien autopsy video in the usa. i have lived in the usa for many years and i happened to be there on one of my earlier visits when the video was shown on public tv.
they would show all the gory details of the autopsy. you could clearly see the open skull with brain matter slowly oozing out of it. you could see an open stomach with intestines all over the place. real messy and gory. then, when the camera moved around the body you could see a tiny slit between the legs of that body. but that had to be blurred out of course! there was NOTHING sexual or arousing about this at all! i just couldn't believe it!
it is still like that today. it's perfectly fine to show gory killings of people (either real or staged for movies/tv) but if you see as much as a nipple exposed there will be public outcries and madness. from a northern european perspective this is just sad and sickening.

many cultures feel the need to control the level of human ecstasy, be it sexual or drug-induced.
humans are rather disturbed animals if you ask me...

we are born naked. we all have basically the same forms. what can possibly be wrong with that!?!? why do some cultures feel the paranoid need to hide that from children?

in germany you could see bare-breasted women in public swimming pools 30 or so years ago with kids of all ages around. nobody thought this was unnatural or damaging to kids (and of course it isn't!).

[PetersCreek]

The exception, of course, is the United States. We let the histrionic conservatives, lineal descendants of the Puritans, dictate our laws.

And that will be quite enough of that. This thread is already within spitting distance of inappropriate adult material. Adding political commentary isn't any more acceptable.

[Krel]

That which has been seen, can never be unseen! No matter how much you may wish it, and pray for it, there is no such thing as eye bleach. Most people, myself included should NEVER be seen in public without clothing. It would prevent a lot of mental trauma, and expensive mental health care treatment. There is a time and a place for everything. In public is most times not the place.

David.

[Stug III]

And that will be quite enough of that. This thread is already within spitting distance of inappropriate adult material. Adding political commentary isn't any more acceptable.

I think you just proved his point.

As for my location, I donīt update it daily, I doubt anyone does. Kandahar is where I live and work, I was in Barcelona, now Iīm not but since I wonīt be here long I donīt plan to change my location.

[Perikles]

I was in Barcelona, now Iīm not .

I should have mentioned that the anti-nudity law in Barcelona was specifically intended to be in place now, before the summer season, which is when the alleged problem arises.

[Stug III]

On recent evidence it is working.

I vaguely recall the mayor of somewhere near Rimini trying to stop ugly people getting onto his beach, or wearing bikinis.

[The_Radiation_Specialist]

The problem with public nudity is that only people whom you never want to see nude will follow it.

[Trebuchet]

There is not infrequently public nudity in my dreams. Unfortunately it's always me who's nude....

[swampyankee]

I thought I had posted this yesterday, but obviously not.

I come from a culture where we don't get undressed in public, we don't go to beaches, we (men as well) don't show flesh in public. And as I'm a Brummie it was a bit academic as I didn't see much sunshine growing up.

I was persuaded onto a Spanish beach yesterday and was assailed by the sight of topless and more or less naked humanity. Most striking was a tall, 40ish Dutch woman who had had a mastectomy and had the confidence to go topless, and because of her confidence she retained her beauty. That and the fact that no-one stared, pointed or treated her as a freak helped restore my faith in humanity.

I'm not going topless any time soon but it was interesting to see other cultures at play.

Funny; I go topless to the beach all the time here in the US. Nobody pays any attention, except to look away from my somewhat pale, flabby, fifty-plus male torso. Since Stug III seems to think that being topless is something outré, I suspect Stug III is a woman.

Interestingly, it seems that the current generation of high school students is more averse to various forms of public nudity, as I've overheard many of them to be very shocked that high school students of the past had to use gang showers.

[Perikles]

I suspect Stug III is a woman. .

I had worked that out on this flimsy evidence:

we (men as well) don't show flesh in public. .