Science Daily, Space.com articles SEDNA, large object theory

[planetbarb]

Hi I just joined this group. I do not have firm knowledge of Niburu, I do have belief, but I plan on sticking to facts, which might support the Niburu theory.
These are very recent articles based on scientist's statements, or written by the scientists themselves, at space.com and sciencedaily.com regarding Sedna's orbit and slow rotation. Both of these articles present the idea of a companion object at least as large as earth and probably much larger, yet to be discovered. The unusually slow rotation and odd orbit suggest to these scientists the strong gravitational pull of a larger object.
Sincerely,
Barb Townsend L.A. CA


Space.com article RE SEDNA's odd elliptical orbit http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...th_040316.html


This one below is SEDNA's slow rotation -
Source: Space Telescope Science Institute
Date Posted: 2004-04-15
Web Address:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0415012813.htm

SEDNA MYSTERY DEEPENS WITH HUBBLE IMAGES OF FARTHEST PLANETOID

Astronomers studying 35 NASA Hubble Space Telescope (HST) images of the solar system's farthest known object, unofficially named Sedna, are surprised the object does not appear to have a companion moon of any substantial size.

This unexpected result might offer new clues to the origin and
evolution of objects on the far edge of the solar system.
Sedna's existence was announced on March 15. Its discoverer, Mike Brown of the California Institute of Technology, Pasadena, Calif., was so convinced it had a satellite, that an artist's concept of Sedna released to t! he media included a hypothetical moon. Brown's prediction was based on the fact, Sedna appears to have a very slow rotation that could best be explained by the gravitational tug of a companion object. Almost all other solitary bodies in the solar system complete a spin in a matter of hours. "I'm completely baffled at the absence of a moon," Brown said. "This is outside the realm of expectation and makes Sedna even more interesting. But I simply don't know what it means." ....(article continues.)

[Archer17]

Hi planetbarb, welcome to the board. I'll tell you straight out I don't buy the concept of Nibiru and all that jazz but a lot of what you mention on this (and your other thread) has been discussed. Click here.

[planetbarb]

Archer 17 What I posted here is not conjecture. The articles I posted here on this forum are from March and April of 2004 space.com and science daily quoting two astronomers.
Does this prove the existence of Niburu? No and I didn't say it did. I said in my first post that I will post articles on the subject which tend to support the existence of this object.
I hardly think you can claim this is old stuff what I posted. Sedna was just discovered two months ago.
I am not going to get into a debate with you. These are theories I just posted, and indications of further searching for another planet. By astronomers. If you want to go debate with those astronomers who discovered Sedna, and who say Sedna's orbit and slow rotation are possibly caused by the pull of another gravitaitonal body, then you go ahead and do that. Perhas you have more knowledge than they have.

[Musashi]

If you do not want to hold a discussion of your hypothesis, then please keep it to yourself.

[Archer17]

=; Spare me the heat. I didn't bring up Nibiru, you did. To wit:

Hi I just joined this group. I do not have firm knowledge of Niburu, I do have belief, but I plan on sticking to facts, which might support the Niburu theory.

I bolded Nibiru so there isn't any confusion. It's also frowned upon to post articles verbatim, a simple link would've sufficed. I tried to be nice to you despite what I think of your beliefs planetbarb but quite frankly I don't need your attitude.

[planetbarb]

Musashi I wasn't actually saying I wasn't willing to discuss my hypothesis I was just saying I didn't want to tangle up with a bunch of obnoxious goofballs more interested in one-upman-ship than simple stated fact. I saw nothing wrong with my post.

[Musashi]

Well, ok, but calling people obnoxious goofballs is against the rules here. Maybe you should apologize and read the faq and then come back with a better attitude.

[Musashi]

BTW< welcome to the BABB.

[planetbarb]

Archer 17 it feels to me like you have jumped in here with a lot of hostility. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.
I am going to post a link next time point well taken. If that is considered such a no no to post a part of an article, then perhaps I won't. Did you read the article? Question if you did read it, and noticed the dates, then why did you post something to the effect that this was old stuff. What makes an April 16 2004 article "previously discussed"/ It is possible I missed something and this was already discussed. Ex CUUUUSE me. I'll be back in a couple days if I have some data. I don't have time for this kind of chat back and forth. If you think this is a victory well revel in it.

[Musashi]

Archer 17 it feels to me like you have jumped in here with a lot of hostility. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.
I am going to post a link next time point well taken. If that is considered such a no no to post a part of an article, then perhaps I won't. Did you read the article? Question if you did read it, and noticed the dates, then why did you post something to the effect that this was old stuff. What makes an April 16 2004 article "previously discussed"/ It is possible I missed something and this was already discussed. Ex CUUUUSE me. I'll be back in a couple days if I have some data. I don't have time for this kind of chat back and forth. If you think this is a victory well revel in it.

Where did he say it was old stuff? He just said it had already been discussed here and then, he gave you a link to that discussion. He was not biting your head off, merely trying to save you some time. April 16 2004 is not ancient news, but it does mean that we have had over a month to talk about it already.

[planetbarb]

Well don't take it personally the obnoxious goofballs. peace out.

[Archer17]

Archer 17 it feels to me like you have jumped in here with a lot of hostility. I could be wrong, but that's what it looks like.
I am going to post a link next time point well taken. If that is considered such a no no to post a part of an article, then perhaps I won't. Did you read the article? Question if you did read it, and noticed the dates, then why did you post something to the effect that this was old stuff. What makes an April 16 2004 article "previously discussed"/ It is possible I missed something and this was already discussed. Ex CUUUUSE me. I'll be back in a couple days if I have some data. I don't have time for this kind of chat back and forth. If you think this is a victory well revel in it.

I was actually trying to get you up to snuff on what was already discussed. It's not my style to extend a hand of welcome to someone and swat 'em with the other. You better get over your presumptions and get the chip off your shoulder. I debated Niburu ad infinitum and quite frankly, got sick of it. I had no intention of rehashing the hypothetical existence of an unproven planet again. BTW, this is an astronomy board. Do you think you are the only one that keeps tabs on things? If you want to make a convincing case for whatever theory you have you better expect a lot of skepticism and get rid of the bad attitude.

P.S. I might be tired of the Nibiru thing but in your case I just might make an exception. :wink:

[sts60]

planetbarb,

welcome to the board. Can you clarify which "Nibiru theory" you seem to be favoring? There have been a pretty wide variety of "Nibiru"/"Planet X" flavors expounded.

Are you talking about the Sitchin once-every-3600-years visitor? What kind of interactions do you think it has with the rest of the solar system?

Also, where do you think it is now?

Not trying to grill you, but it's easy enough to talk past each other on such topics...

P.S. Do you, by any chance, have a sister named Claire? :wink:

[Ut]

Welcome, planetbarb. I hope you enjoy your stay. It will be a much nicer experience if you look at your exchange with Archer17 and see what's wrong with it...

Hi planetbarb, welcome to the board. I'll tell you straight out I don't buy the concept of Nibiru and all that jazz but a lot of what you mention on this (and your other thread) has been discussed. Click here.

Archer 17 What I posted here is not conjecture. The articles I posted here on this forum are from March and April of 2004 space.com and science daily quoting two astronomers.

...

I am not going to get into a debate with you. These are theories I just posted, and indications of further searching for another planet. By astronomers.

...

Perhas you have more knowledge than they have.

Archer was in no way confrontational with you, but you immediately jumped into defensive mode. Later, you started throwing around names (obnoxious goofballs, I believe).


Please understand that anything over a WEEK old is 'old news' on this board. You're going back over a month here. Perhaps you should take a deeper look around...

[A.DIM]

Hello planetbarb, welcome.

There is much evidence, in my opinion, of a planetary perturber and the puzzles that might be answered by its existence; indeed, it is beginning to appear highly likely that one exists. But because of Nancy Leider's PX zetacrazies and other "doomsday soothsayers" there is an extreme resistance to the idea. Of course, you must remember that you've come to BadAstronomy, where legions of skeptics and "debunkers" carry on in the spirit of the book by the same name. Personally, my frustration stems from the fact that these sorts of discussions can polarize the participants into "believers" and "debunkers." It is important to have opposing viewpoints on issues but this particular one is muddied, as I said, by the "woowoo" associations. Were it not for the woowoos I imagine there could be as ramapant speculation that such a large "pertuber" body exists based on what observational evidence we do have.

Anyone read the recent Origins Revealed: Sun and Earth Born Amid Chaos?

Hmmm... "Apsu (Sun) and Tiamat (Earth - 1/2 of Tiamat) born amid chaos..." sounds a little like the Enuma Elish.... where we first read the name Nibiru. :wink:
And to me, this raises the odds that Sol may have a "companion" and/or that the solar system could've captured a perturber.

[John Jones]

Well don't take it personally the obnoxious goofballs. peace out.

The same to you!



[-X

[freddo]

John I think she meant don't take the comment about the obnoxious goofballs personally. I don't think that sentence is supposed to be an insult.

I do not have firm knowledge of Niburu, I do have belief, but I plan on sticking to facts, which might support the Niburu theory.

Hi Barb and welcome. There might be some support for an extremely distant massive body in our solar system (based on these articles), but I do not believe that such a body would fit the bill of Nibiru. I would be interested to see your evidence that would indicate otherwise.

[Toutatis]

Speaking for myself, it is not the suggestion of a massive object having a heliocentric orbit (perihelion >~ 0.5 LY) that I find utterly untenable (though there is little evidence to its credit) - It is, rather, the 'shared planet' scenario which I find ludicrous on its own merits - Among many, many objections, the inner solar system is far too 'tidy' to permit realization of any such conjecture (e.g. have a gander at the very nearly circular orbits of Mercury & Venus, and, to a slightly lesser extent, dear old Terra and Mars) --- The well-nigh ‘collected’ condition of the Main Belt speaks volumes as well...

With respect and regards
Sarandon

[planetbarb]

Archer, I am not going to spend a lot of time here trying to convince anyone of my belief.
I presented an idea, one main idea, and the two articles speak for themselves. If you are duplicating my posts at all, I did not say this article proves the existence of Niburu. One article states that astronomer Brown who "led the discovery of Sedna" is considering searching for another companion planet, due to the extremely slow rotation of Sedna. Astronomer Marsden came out strongly that he feels a companion planet is there, when I say companion it's not meant in some mystical sense. It means another planet is there, of earth size or [who knows a few earth masses] per Marsden.

[planetbarb]

Hi sts60 Thanks for the msg. I'll try to do a decent job of responding...

Just an overview, below on some of my beliefs, first a little about myself: I'm sixty. I raised five kids - and I helped with three grandkids. They are all doing well and I am proud of their creativity- I'm basically an artist, but I have an interest in science. I have about six years of the natural sciences - just H.S. and college - and have been continuing my education; went back to completing work, toward BA's in Art and English. I go to various science boards, I recently joined an astronomy list; and subscribed to science newsletters, etc.)


I only recently came back to this Niburu, X topic as an interest; I paid no attention for a year. I must admit now it is a strong interest; joined a lot of lists lately.

On your question re what I believe about X's possible effects on the rest of the solar system, the data I have on that is what Masters presented in '03: The temp of our outer planets is rising, which would only occur with the approach of a large object.
X is too far away to see yet. I think it is at least 800 AU away. If it exists, and if it exists within the framework of the popular culture created around it, it should be visible within three years, and if it approaches earth closely that would be 2012 or sooner. I am not necessarily a close follower of any one of the main theories... space.com excerpts below:

Marsden favors an object ..... a "planetary object," he told SPACE.com , perhaps at between 400 and 1,000 AU.

"Perhaps there's more than one planet out there," Marsden said. "Who knows? But let's suppose it is something of an Earth mass, maybe even a few Earth masses. A close approach could throw this object [Sedna] from something more circular into something more eccentric." end quote


"Region to explore

"...Brown said there is one unexplored region of space left, amounting to about 20 percent of the sky, that hasn't been searched for an Earth-sized object that would be orbiting at 70 AU and presumably in the main plane of the solar system. It is the region toward the bright galactic center, which is harder to search.

Brown said his team is considering making that search now." end quote


I am here to post facts regarding discoveries and data on theories, etc, of astronomers, about X. I will be posting the article (link)of NASA's Harrington - his pdf on Planet X. I will try to present data showing the connections between previous astronomers search and the search for X now. I believe there will be an eleventh planet discovered then X will be twelfth.

Someone sent me a link to this site. I am beginning to understand there is rancor toward anyone who brings up the subject, unless it is to a list of people who already believe in the possibility of X. I did NOT participate in all the online chat on X, during the past year. I picked it up a couple mo. ago. All this terminology of woo woos is new to me. (smile.)
.
I have already verified for myself the existence of the scientific theory that there is another planet out there which probably will be discovered. I have not verified for myself scientific proof of the 3600 year cycle. It is only my belief so far, that this is true.
I am going to have to verify for myself certain statements about Niburu. One: Ancient Sumerian texts. Two: 10,000 year old writings in Egypt. Again, I have NOT verified this. I will write one of my history profs from about three years ago, and see if she has an idea how I can study translations which are definitely accurate. Well, my idea (this is not a prediction.) Scientists will spot an eleventh planet in the near future. The twelfth planet will be the larger one and this will not be discovered for years yet. I think 2012 is the farthest-away date of a X's close passage with earth. Well, I will probably be spending more time studying and less time posting, but I will try to reply to all posts. Well, this could be better, but it is sort of an introduction. To anyone who is already critical of me, for whatever, I amjust going to post links to articles, and read here and won't be posting much. Barb

planetbarb,

welcome to the board. Can you clarify which "Nibiru theory" you seem to be favoring? There have been a pretty wide variety of "Nibiru"/"Planet X" flavors expounded.

Are you talking about the Sitchin once-every-3600-years visitor? What kind of interactions do you think it has with the rest of the solar system?

Also, where do you think it is now?

Not trying to grill you, but it's easy enough to talk past each other on such topics...

P.S. Do you, by any chance, have a sister named Claire?

[planetbarb]

Hi all,
Like I said, I am going to be limiting myself mainly to scientific articles, when I said I am going to be sticking to the articles, I meant limiting myself to them. I hope that clears that up. Links only or excerpts. I suppose everything I posted had already been posted. So if any of you other astronomers who posted to me are reading this, I am acknowledging that I posted something you apparantly all know about.
Re whatever rudeness or not, I won't be here that much. Anyway goodnight. Barb

[planetbarb]

A dim Thanks for your msg,
I agree this is a very muddied and polarizing issue. I agree it is unfortunate the whole Leider thing, and the fact this is polarizing. Anyway could you email to me some of the evidence of perturbations. If you have time planet2003barb@yahoo.com
I actually haven't read that book you mentioned, I have lots of catching up to do. Thank you for the Enuma Elish reference. I was just wanting to study the tablets, whatever translation is best. Got my work cut out for me. Below I posted a little excerpt which mentions "Nebiru."
Will not be here a whole lot, anyway any reference you want to send is appreciated.
Again, thanks,
Barb P.S. Excerpt from the fifth tablet is below http://www.gatewaystobabylon.com/myt...ic/enuma.htm#5

Tablet V The Enuma Elish

TABLET V

He projected positions for the Great Gods conspicuous in the sky, he gave them a starry aspect as constellations; he measure the year, gave it a beginning and an end, and to each month of the twelve three rising stars.

When he had marked the limits of the year, he gave them Nebiru, the pole of the universe, to hold their course, that never erring they should not stray through the sky. For the seasons of Ea and Enlil he drew the parallel.

Through her ribs he opened gates in the east and west, and gave them strong bolts on the right and left; and high in the belly of Tiamat he set the zenith.

He gave the moon the luster of a jewel, he gave him all the night, to mark off days, to watch by night each month the circle of a waxing waning light.......................


Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 8:04 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello planetbarb, welcome.

There is much evidence, in my opinion, of a planetary perturber and the puzzles that might be answered by its existence; indeed, it is beginning to appear highly likely that one exists. But because of Nancy Leider's PX zetacrazies and other "doomsday soothsayers" there is an extreme resistance to the idea. Of course, you must remember that you've come to BadAstronomy, where legions of skeptics and "debunkers" carry on in the spirit of the book by the same name. Personally, my frustration stems from the fact that these sorts of discussions can polarize the participants into "believers" and "debunkers." It is important to have opposing viewpoints on issues but this particular one is muddied, as I said, by the "woowoo" associations. Were it not for the woowoos I imagine there could be as ramapant speculation that such a large "pertuber" body exists based on what observational evidence we do have.

Anyone read the recent Origins Revealed: Sun and Earth Born Amid Chaos?

Hmmm... "Apsu (Sun) and Tiamat (Earth - 1/2 of Tiamat) born amid chaos..." sounds a little like the Enuma Elish.... where we first read the name Nibiru.
And to me, this raises the odds that Sol may have a "companion" and/or that the solar system could've captured a perturber.

[A.DIM]

Hello again Barb.

That "Origins Revealed" is a recent News article shedding light on the "chaos" in which Sun and Earth, or as I prefer, Apsu and (1/2 of) Tiamat, were born.

The Enuma Elish is also known as The Epic of Creation, The Chaldean Genesis, The Seven Tablets of Creation. This is the Creation Story on which Genesis is based, and I read it more as a description of the formation of our solar system . The Sumerians were nearly cultic in considering the stars moon and planets as "gods" and so I read this as an astronomical text, as I think it was meant to be. Anyway...

Some additional links for your perusal.

[Archer17]

Archer, I am not going to spend a lot of time here trying to convince anyone of my belief.
I presented an idea, one main idea, and the two articles speak for themselves. If you are duplicating my posts at all, I did not say this article proves the existence of Niburu. One article states that astronomer Brown who "led the discovery of Sedna" is considering searching for another companion planet, due to the extremely slow rotation of Sedna. Astronomer Marsden came out strongly that he feels a companion planet is there, when I say companion it's not meant in some mystical sense. It means another planet is there, of earth size or [who knows a few earth masses] per Marsden.

Actually outside of saying I don't believe in Nibiru and that this has been discussed, I haven't said too much at all. I'm not going to rehash the SOS but if you provide something new I'll certainly weigh in here.

[planetbarb]

A. dim Thanks for interesing msg. ...I tend to agree that these were meant as astronomical texts. Perhaps they were written by an advanced people for those who were not very advanced. I didn't see much about Niburu yet, (Nebiru in the text I saw,) but there must be more there. I did a mamma.com search and found Enuma Elish scuse my previous mis-spelling of name. That was funny maybe I was unconsciously thinking illumination, hence Elumu.. probably not even a word...
planet2003barb@yahoo.com

[A.DIM]

Barb,

Nibiru, Nebiru, Nibruki et al are terms found in various astronomical texts (eg. Reports of the Babylonian Magicians and Astrologers). Nippur, the ancient "city of crossing" is a variant of the term as well.

More importantly, you should know that "Marduk" replaced "Nibiru" in the Epic of Creation for the Babylonians, "Ashur" replaced "Nibiru" for the Assyrians, and various other local "gods" did the same for their "version" of the Creation Epic, or Enuma Elish. Only fragments of the Sumerian original have been found, but knowing that the Sumerians are said to have been "cultic" in revering the planets as "gods," it makes sense that the Sumerian original of the Enuma Elish was written as an astronomical text.
The exaltation of Marduk as "Surpreme among the Gods of Heaven and Earth" and the listing of the "50 names" wherein Marduk usurps the attributes of all the other gods is, in my mind, the first major step in the direction of monotheism, fusing both the scientific astronomical with the religious recognition of a "supreme" "god."

Nibiru is included in the "50 Names of Marduk" part of the Enuma Elish for very good reason: Nibiru is the astronomical name for the "god" - planetary perturber - involved in the formation of our solar system.
According to the Sumerians, that is. :wink:

[planetbarb]

A dim thanks very much for this data. In the wee hours online I was looking at some of the babylonian texts and I kept seeing Marduk instead of Niburu, now I know why. Good to now that Niburu had many different names. Well, I wish I had learned about all this years ago. The ones who sacked the Great Library at Alexandria, and the ones who burned the Moslem texts as well as Jewish scrolls during the Inquisiton also burnt humanist Greek texts in Italy and weakened the Medicis; and the ones who sacked the Bauhaus and had a book burning in Germany and then the puritans in the new world- these guys don't want the common man to know this stuff. Now we are reduced to a few people who want to dig for knowledge. Some of it has been circulating on net and then one needs to separate fact from fiction not so easy...
Have a great day,
Barb