Super Moon?

[Sticks]

In a particular UK tabloid they talk about something called a super moon, to wit

The moon will pass just 221,567 miles away on March 19 - its closest for 18 years.

Some amateur scientists warn it could trigger extreme conditions all over the world, from earthquakes to tsunamis.

Anything in this, or media misunderstanding?

[caveman1917]

Rest assured, the only extreme conditions will be the woo crowd going wild.

ETA: the tides will be a bit bigger than usual, so for places that are already at the maximum limit for handling tides there could be some minor issues. But certainly not tsunami's, or earthquakes.

[Sticks]

I had hoped either Phil or Fraser had blogged on this one, but I do not think they have picked up on this one yet.

[astromark]

The real issue is simple. Some people are so ignorant of the astronomy happening every month above them.
Yes, Way over there heads... they have no idea what Perigee is.
At its most distant from earth at Apogee the Moon can be as far away as 406,300 km away.
While it gets down to 356,700 km on the 19th I would not evacuate California or Chile or .... No.
In a thread about a Mr Ken Ring from NZ I have expressed my displeasure of this crackpot idea...
It was in 'Astronomy' and titled 'Bad astronomy.'

[Grashtel]

My response to that sort of thing is to do a little research, specifically what happened in 1993 when the Moon was last that close. And from looking through the summary for the year on Wikipedia it seems that in in terms of natural disasters it wasn't anything particularly spectacular so I'm not worried.

[NEOWatcher]

Previous supermoons - or "lunar perigees" - happened in 1955, 1974, 1992 and 2005. Each year had extreme weather events.

So did 1956, 1957, 1958...etc.

What I want to know is if it will look as big as Mars in a telescope.

[Perikles]

What I want to know is if it will look as big as Mars in a telescope.

[insert funny smiley] It sounds like a slow news day even for that tabloid. Note the unprovable "Some amateur scientists warn it could ..." which means they are really trying to invent something from nothing.

[cjameshuff]

The difference between the given distance and typically quoted distances for perigee is suspiciously close to the radius of Earth.

[grapes]

Tides during a full moon are called spring tides, and tides during a full moon at perigee are called proxigean--they occur every year and a half or so.

[wd40]

The "super moon" apparently coincides with the Jewish festival of Purim http://shiratdevorah.blogspot.com/20...uper-moon.html

[NEOWatcher]

The "super moon" apparently coincides with the Jewish festival of Purim http://shiratdevorah.blogspot.com/20...uper-moon.html

Another misleading article.

On March 19, the moon will be just 356,577km away from Earth, an event that has internet theorists a-quiver with the possibility of extreme weather, earthquakes and volcanoes.
Not all scientists are convinced, however.

Not all? That makes it sound like most scientists are convinced of the extreme conditions.

The full article it links to, explains it a bit more. But even it goes on with an unsubstantiated comment by a geoscientist that uses "may" as a cop-out.

Internet theorist... now that's funny.

[Swift]

The "super moon" apparently coincides with the Jewish festival of Purim http://shiratdevorah.blogspot.com/20...uper-moon.html

That's wonderful, because I can have my hamantasch by the light of the full moon. I love a nice prune hamantasch.

[NEOWatcher]

That's wonderful, because I can have my hamantasch by the light of the full moon. I love a nice prune hamantasch.

Looks like Koloce (like this, or this). We don't need a holiday for those.

[Swift]

Looks like Koloce (like this, or this). We don't need a holiday for those.

Actually, the dough is rather different. The pastry part of a hamantasch is much firmer, almost like a firm sugar cookie, though not as sweet, but with a lot of butter. And they can be eaten any time of year, but are most associated with Purim. And to completely derail the thread, I have struggled to find a good hamantasch in the Cleveland metro area, even in Jewish neighborhoods.

OK, do you think we completely derailed the thread yet?

[NEOWatcher]

Actually, the dough is rather different...

At least I said "looks like".

OK, do you think we completely derailed the thread yet?

I think we're dangerously close, but at least the second kolace picture could look like moons if you squint.

Anyway. This event coinciding with Purim doesn't surprise me since that's determined by a lunar calendar.
So; would it follow that 1 in 13 lunar perigees coincide with Purim?

[Hornblower]

This coming event is nothing more than a perigee passage at or within half a day of the moment of full Moon or new Moon (syzygy for short).

What may not be common knowledge is that the perigee distance varies by several thousand miles, being under 222,000 miles at a syzygy and over 229,000 miles at quadrature, which is first or third quarter, or the familiar half Moon phase. This is caused by the strong perturbations of the Sun's gravity. The closest-to-syzygy perigee recurs at roughly 7-month intervals, so there have been over 30 of them in the past 18 years. This coming one just happens to be almost perfectly aligned so it comes slightly closer than most of them which could have been off by several hours.

A syzygy spring tide will be several per cent higher than a quadrature spring tide. The only adverse geophysical consequence I have ever heard of is coastal flooding. One such event occurred when an extreme perigee coincided with perihelion passage near the December solstice, making the highest possible tide in middle latitudes. There were coastal flood warnings up in Virginia and North Carolina as this tide coincided with a strong nor'easter. The tidal event certainly did not cause the storm to form, and to the best of my knowledge no qualified scientists were expecting the tidal action to trigger earthquakes.

Once again, bad media writing about these recurring events brings out the woowoo in people who are so predisposed.

[grapes]

This coming event is nothing more than a perigee passage at or within half a day of the moment of full Moon or new Moon (syzygy for short).

What may not be common knowledge is that the perigee distance varies by several thousand miles, being under 222,000 miles at a syzygy and over 229,000 miles at quadrature, which is first or third quarter, or the familiar half Moon phase. This is caused by the strong perturbations of the Sun's gravity. The closest-to-syzygy perigee recurs at roughly 7-month intervals, so there have been over 30 of them in the past 18 years. This coming one just happens to be almost perfectly aligned so it comes slightly closer than most of them which could have been off by several hours.

A syzygy spring tide will be several per cent higher than a quadrature spring tide.

Just to clarify, because I was a little confused myself, the "quadrature spring tide" will occur at new or full moon, but the quadrature perigee will occur when the moon is at one quarter or three quarters. Bottom line, as Hornblower emphasizes, the effect is a matter of a few percent above what happened, say, last month.

And, I guess, we'd have to make a special case for apogee syzygy.

[Hornblower]

This coming event is nothing more than a perigee passage at or within half a day of the moment of full Moon or new Moon (syzygy for short).

What may not be common knowledge is that the perigee distance varies by several thousand miles, being under 222,000 miles at a syzygy and over 229,000 miles at quadrature, which is first or third quarter, or the familiar half Moon phase. This is caused by the strong perturbations of the Sun's gravity. The closest-to-syzygy perigee recurs at roughly 7-month intervals, so there have been over 30 of them in the past 18 years. This coming one just happens to be almost perfectly aligned so it comes slightly closer than most of them which could have been off by several hours.

A syzygy spring tide will be several per cent higher than a quadrature spring tide. The only adverse geophysical consequence I have ever heard of is coastal flooding. One such event occurred when an extreme perigee coincided with perihelion passage near the December solstice, making the highest possible tide in middle latitudes. There were coastal flood warnings up in Virginia and North Carolina as this tide coincided with a strong nor'easter. The tidal event certainly did not cause the storm to form, and to the best of my knowledge no qualified scientists were expecting the tidal action to trigger earthquakes.

Once again, bad media writing about these recurring events brings out the woowoo in people who are so predisposed.

My feeble brain blundered and I owe you all some corrections. Of course at quadrature we will have a neap tide, roughly 1/3 the height of a spring tide, even with the Moon at perigee. Spring tides are by definition at or very near syzygy.

What we are concerned with in this thread are the slight difference between a perfect syzygy perigee and a nearest-to-syzygy perigee that is off by several hours. In a thought exercise we could contemplate a hypothetical geophysical situation in which the slightly greater tidal stress from this one is the straw that breaks the camel's back, but there are so many other variables that I remain skeptical about finding any statistical correlation, even over many centuries.

[slang]

I had hoped either Phil or Fraser had blogged on this one, but I do not think they have picked up on this one yet.

Just in case you or others who might be interested missed it: Bad Astronomy Blog No, the “supermoon” didn’t cause the Japanese earthquake

[Centaur]

Indeed, the Moon at the time of the Japanese earthquake was nearer to apogee than perigee and less than 90° from the Sun. But the astrologers and many in the public will incredibly think that the timing is close enough.

The tightest lunar perigees occur at syzygies, especially Full Moon. The difference in apogee and perigee distances are relative slight when they occur near Half Moons (cusps of quarters). Full Moon at perigee occurs every 14 synodic months, and the Moon-Earth distances among them vary only slightly.

Interestingly, the recent January and February Full Moons were brighter than the upcoming one this month. That’s due to the distances to the Sun, and the Moon’s ecliptical latitudes. I’ve created a chart illustrating various factors for the next 15 Full Moons. It can be seen at http://www.curtrenz.com/moon

[emmylou]

please do not ell me this is being linked o the super moon LOL

[Rhaedas]

I'd be open to the idea that the Moon's gravity influences crustal stress. But it does this constantly, not just during a closer pass. So any effect it had on the particular area that released near Japan was cumulative, not just a one time thing. But then again, that's true everywhere.

Now, the question should be, what percentage of the multitudes of factors that cause stress buildup and release in the crust does the Moon, or for that matter the Sun, play? Some, most likely, but probably not a lot.

[Centaur]

To those who want to make some connection with the upcoming Full Moon and the recent Japanese earthquake: on the day of the earthquake the Moon was further from Earth than average. The tidal effects from the Sun and Moon were conflicting with each other. On the day of the Full Moon they will be reinforcing each other.

I’ve added a graph to my Moon webpage illustrating the strength of the tidal effect due to the Moon and Sun. It can be seen that the effect was rather minimal at the time of the Japanese earthquake. The tidal effect will reach a maximum on March 19, the day of the Full Moon at perigee. The graph can be seen at http://www.curtrenz.com/moon

[Sticks]

Just in case you or others who might be interested missed it: Bad Astronomy Blog No, the “supermoon” didn’t cause the Japanese earthquake

Thanks for that, he must have posted after I commented, as I did look prior, but then the Earthquake had not yet happened

[publiusr]

Neil De Grasse Tyson also debunked this one on Piers show...

[cyndzyoung]

Is there a thread here for out of topic discussions or appreciation threads? I'm just thankful I stumbled in this site. Now I know, reaching the space, no matter how amazing to think about will always remain an impossible dream. Keep on posting guys! You make my dream almost possible thru your posts!

[loglo]

Is there a thread here for out of topic discussions or appreciation threads? I'm just thankful I stumbled in this site. Now I know, reaching the space, no matter how amazing to think about will always remain an impossible dream. Keep on posting guys! You make my dream almost possible thru your posts!

Off Topic Babbling sounds like the right place. Welcome to BAUT cyndzyoung.

[Githyanki]

Bat-boy causing the Moon to get closer...

Shouldn't believe everything you read, especially from a Tabloid.


When I read this topic, I thought, what if Earth had a larger moon...

[cyndzyoung]

thanks loglo.. appreciated your response..