Fossil On Mar's and Richard Hoagland

[btimsah1]

Okay my first question is this:

Since there was water on mars then why does'nt NASA investigate potential fossils they photograph?



I know absolutley nothing about biology, but why not even investigate?

-Robby

[PhantomWolf]

You'll find this was alredy discussed some time go here

It shows why the markings weren't likely to have been a fossil and why it wouldn't have mattered even if they were.

[btimsah1]

You'll find this was alredy discussed some time go here

It shows why the markings weren't likely to have been a fossil and why it wouldn't have mattered even if they were.

Okay the answer is:

NASA did not think it was a fossil.

-Robby

[PhantomWolf]

You'll find this was alredy discussed some time go here

It shows why the markings weren't likely to have been a fossil and why it wouldn't have mattered even if they were.

Okay the answer is:

NASA did not think it was a fossil.

-Robby

Actually I think you'll find that a) NASA didn't believe it ws a fossil, nd that b) since the RAT only takes off a few mm at most nd there was only rock underneath rther then fossil structure, it wasn't a fossil. If you cut a fossil in half, or grind the edge of it you can see inside of it, the fossil is there all the way through, you can't just rub the top layer off and have it vanish. The fact it did, strongly suggests it was nothing but a shape on the rock

[btimsah1]

You'll find this was alredy discussed some time go here

It shows why the markings weren't likely to have been a fossil and why it wouldn't have mattered even if they were.

Okay the answer is:

NASA did not think it was a fossil.

-Robby

Actually I think you'll find that a) NASA didn't believe it ws a fossil, nd that b) since the RAT only takes off a few mm at most nd there was only rock underneath rther then fossil structure, it wasn't a fossil. If you cut a fossil in half, or grind the edge of it you can see inside of it, the fossil is there all the way through, you can't just rub the top layer off and have it vanish. The fact it did, strongly suggests it was nothing but a shape on the rock

Is NASA even concerned with looking for fossils at this time?

-Rob

[Squink]

Is NASA even concerned with looking for fossils at this time?

Sure they are, and even if they weren't, a lot of competent observers are examining the photos for evidence of past life. It just takes an extremely blatant fossil form to allow firm conclusions about mars life on the basis of photographs. Nothing's passed muster yet.

[01101001]

Is NASA even concerned with looking for fossils at this time?

People such as these on the Science team, would indicate the answer is certainly yes:

Andy Knoll, Harvard paleobotanist

Jack Farmer, PhD paleontology, Arizona State astrobiologist

[01101001]

Since there was water on mars then why does'nt NASA investigate potential fossils they photograph

I put more detail in the thread here, but your use of that image and your question begs this answer:

I'll bet anything they didn't first eyeball this image and then RAT it. The timestamps from the finenames on this and associated images indicate it was imaged as part of an automated sequence: 1) Image several times for depth-of-field coverage; 2) RAT 3 hours; 3) Image resulting hole several times.

Pictures taken before the microscopic imaging don't show the feature. Once seen by a human, there was nothing left to investigate.

Anyway, after it was seen, I'm sure they concluded that the quasi-stemlike feature was not a fossil, but likely just another reaction rim just like those seen in several other places, still surrounding spherical concretions. The hole around which the "stem" wraps would nicely contain one spherule.

[jest]

Really though, NASA's general point at this time is to study the rocks, and in the case of Opportunity at Endurance Crater, a chance to literally study a large swath of the history of Mars right there in the rock layers, which is a geologist's dream. And absolutely, if they're busy studying a rock layer and suddenly realize "wait a sec.. that looks vaguely familiar.. can it be? I think that might be some kind of shale!"

I kind of doubt they would actually find shale in the form we see on Earth, but a finely deposited layer would be a nice place for ancient creatures to lay their souls to rest.

[Bubblecar]

I suppose any fossils found amongst surface material would have to be reconciled with the heavily oxidizing "soil" of Mars, which is very hostile to organic compounds - & was the single most important factor in Norman Horowitz's conclusion that Mars is (& always has been) lifeless.

(Horowitz was chief of the bioscience section for the Mariner & Viking missions at JPL. His very sober assessment of the prospects for life on Mars, & the rest of the Solar System, can be found in his book "To Utopia and Back - the Search for Life in the Solar System".

[junkyardfrog]

I suppose any fossils found amongst surface material would have to be reconciled with the heavily oxidizing "soil" of Mars, which is very hostile to organic compounds - & was the single most important factor in Norman Horowitz's conclusion that Mars is (& always has been) lifeless.

(Horowitz was chief of the bioscience section for the Mariner & Viking missions at JPL. His very sober assessment of the prospects for life on Mars, & the rest of the Solar System, can be found in his book "To Utopia and Back - the Search for Life in the Solar System".

What year was that book printed? I wonder if Horowitz would like to change his opinion now that we know about the water on Mars?

[aldo12xu]

There is a mineralogical explanation for the feature.

I think NASA saw similiar features in other photos. In one of their earlier newsconferences in March they talked about reaction rims around the "blueberrries", which in fact turned out to be concretions. Sometimes reaction rims above the concretions are seen, sometimes below. When the concretion is removed by erosion you're left with the empty reaction rim. And that's what we have in the photo.

I have a detailed geological explanation and photos of reaction rims posted on my site below. You'll have to scroll way down to "Fossils or Replacement Mineralization"