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maybe im dumb

but i think newton is wrong and im right, black holes suck energy in right? i think theres a black hole in the middle of earth... prove me wrong...

2. Re: maybe im dumb

Originally Posted by Sepmann
but i think newton is wrong and im right, black holes suck energy in right? i think theres a black hole in the middle of earth... prove me wrong...
That's not quite how science works. If YOU make the claim, then the burden is on YOU to provide the proof. By the way, I hope you're not serious.

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This is going to be my last post for a week, so I'll make it good.

Anyway, a black hole in the center of the Earth? The center of the Earth is very dense compared to matter on Earth's surface (10-15 g/cm^3) maybe, but a black hole? Nonsense. The whole Earth would have to be squashed in a two centimeter wide object for it to collapse into a black hole. :roll:

Like Normandy said, if you propose an idea, you must have proof to back up your claim. :wink:

4. First off, what led you to to believe and/or conclude this? Do you have any experimental evidence? How big is this black hole supposed to be? What is its mass? Where did it come from and how did it form? What is it made of? Is it going to eventually suck all the matter around it, (namely, you and I) in?

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even if by some fluke in the physics of black holes the earth was NOT crushed (as long as the gravitational pull of the bh was not greater than that of the center of the earth i woudl imagine we MIGHT be ok but someone'd ahve to check me on that) we still wouldn't exist. As matter "orbits" so to speak around a black hole, it forms an accretion disk. Frictional heat in this disk causes huge amounts of energy to be released, usually in the form of x-ray radiation. The heating is extremely efficent, it can convert about 50% mass energy into radiation...more effiecient than nuclear fusion. if there was a black hole in the center of the earth, this radiation would have prevented earth from ever even forming.

6. Re: maybe im dumb

Originally Posted by Sepmann
but i think newton is wrong and im right,
What makes you think that ? What was Newton wrong about ? EWas he wrong about everything or just one thing in particular ?

Originally Posted by Sepmann
black holes suck energy in right?
This'll need someone with more knowledge of black holes than I have to answer it

Originally Posted by Sepmann
i think theres a black hole in the middle of earth...
What makes you think that ? How did you arrive at that conclusion ? Do you have any references for us to read ?

Originally Posted by Sepmann
prove me wrong...
It could be that you are right, but right about what you didn't exactly state. Its a bit of a jump from "Newton was wrong" to "there's a black hole at the center of the earth".

I'd be interested to find out what steps you took to get to that conclusion. I've always assumed that there wasn't and, until evidence proves otherwise, I'll stick with that.

Cheers

7. Re: maybe im dumb

Originally Posted by Sepmann
maybe im dumb
I don't think that's the case. I think you're just kidding around with us.

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ok I'll take an uneducated shot at it.

I am assuming you are making this claim, using a singularity sucking us down instead of gravity correct? If this is the case then every other planet and moon has a black hole in the center of it as well. I am not clear on the mathematics of it all, but we use other planets to slingshot probes to other planets. We would not be able to do this unless they had gravity, OR they all had a BH in their core.

Also for a BH to be in the core of our planet and ALL planets for that matter, they would have to be perfectly balanced as to not A) eat the planet or B) dissolve into nothing.

Then there is what Brady said, for a BH to be at the core of the planet in such a way that it "holds" us to the earth, then the earths mas would have to be almost Double what it is (Mass of Earth + Mass of BH).

Sounds to me like you have been reading some David Brin. Also as has been mentioned earlier, if you make a claim, the burdon of proof is on you, so prove to us WHY there is a BH in the center of the earth.

9. Re: maybe im dumb

Originally Posted by Sepmann
but i think newton is wrong and im right, black holes suck energy in right?
That's a very simplistic way of putting it.

Originally Posted by Sepmann
i think theres a black hole in the middle of earth...
What has led you to this conclusion?

Originally Posted by Sepmann
prove me wrong...
Fulfill your own burden of proof first and then we'll prove you wrong.

10. Originally Posted by Sepmann
prove me wrong...
Ok, Sepmann, in that case, I am accusing you of murder. I'm not going to say when or where or why, I'm just accusing you of killing someone. But what's the only thing stopping me from carting you away? The proof. I can tell you to prove me wrong but my claim has no weight until I show you some proof.
A rather extreme example, I admit, but the idea is the same. It's up to you to show the proof, we have no obligation to believe you until you have some.
Cheers!

11. Re: maybe im dumb

Originally Posted by N C More
Originally Posted by Sepmann
maybe im dumb
I don't think that's the case. I think you're just kidding around with us.
Yeah, it does seem a wee bit troll-like. :-k

12. Re: maybe im dumb

Originally Posted by Normandy6644
Yeah, it does seem a wee bit troll-like. :-k
Well Sepmann has made four posts so far. Apart from this one, they've all been in PX. His first two expressed his profound support for some woowoo. His third was asking what Planet X meant, which I find somewhat odd given that it is explained in the forum description.

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Re: maybe im dumb

Originally Posted by Glom
Originally Posted by Normandy6644
Yeah, it does seem a wee bit troll-like. :-k
Well Sepmann has made four posts so far. Apart from this one, they've all been in PX. His first two expressed his profound support for some woowoo. His third was asking what Planet X meant, which I find somewhat odd given that it is explained in the forum description.
Forum description
Do you think a rogue brown dwarf by the name of Nibiru or Planet X will sweep past the Earth in May 2003 and kill us all, or do you think it's just another woowoo claim? Post here about it!
Now last i checked may 2003 was almost a year ago so that is wrong, the rest sounds like something out of a star wars movie (rouge brown dwarf....) I am not a troll I will be posting here ALOT, I am reading right now almost every post that I can because all of this is so interesting to me, ok why I think there is a black hole in the middle of the earth

Black holes suck things in, now what if something related to a black hole like to the family of black holes pulled things in (gravity), yes every planet would have one also it would be hard to say how they started, im not at that point yet... in simple terms A thing related to black hole is inside the earth, if it was a black hole we would be sucked in already but maybe this just sucks materrial in... meaning not other planets just its own... the more i talk the more i sound stupid dont i

14. Re: maybe im dumb

Originally Posted by Sepmann
Originally Posted by Glom
Originally Posted by Normandy6644
Yeah, it does seem a wee bit troll-like. :-k
Well Sepmann has made four posts so far. Apart from this one, they've all been in PX. His first two expressed his profound support for some woowoo. His third was asking what Planet X meant, which I find somewhat odd given that it is explained in the forum description.
Forum description
Do you think a rogue brown dwarf by the name of Nibiru or Planet X will sweep past the Earth in May 2003 and kill us all, or do you think it's just another woowoo claim? Post here about it!
Now last i checked may 2003 was almost a year ago so that is wrong, the rest sounds like something out of a star wars movie (rouge brown dwarf....) I am not a troll I will be posting here ALOT, I am reading right now almost every post that I can because all of this is so interesting to me, ok why I think there is a black hole in the middle of the earth

Black holes suck things in, now what if something related to a black hole like to the family of black holes pulled things in (gravity), yes every planet would have one also it would be hard to say how they started, im not at that point yet... in simple terms A thing related to black hole is inside the earth, if it was a black hole we would be sucked in already but maybe this just sucks materrial in... meaning not other planets just its own... the more i talk the more i sound stupid dont i
Believe or not I think I actually see what you're saying. It's not right, but it's an interesting idea nonetheless. Perhaps there are some celestial bodies that form around black holes, but I would imagine the combined gravity of any object surrounding a black hole would be more than enough to make it unstable, and so the material would just "swirl" around the black hole anyway.

Sorry for thinking you were a troll. Just next time don't open a thread about Newton was wrong and you're right. :wink:

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I figured it out.... ok read this

(Why are all planets round?
I came up with the idea that when the planets spin they turn into speahers because a square would cause alot of resistance or maybe too much resistance, another proposition is that who said we have to have started out as squares maybe (we=all planets), maybe we started out as chunks of rock that over time have found thier poisitions and started orbitin other planets, due to thier shape they cant circle (rotate) to thier maximum potential so they just lose the pieces the create friction and they get shot off into space, this could answer how the universe started, if we go backwards trying to figure out where every piece came from.... opinions????)

now with that idea i get the idea that

maybe so much has been sucked into the blackhole that started earth that it has clogged up meaning filled with stuff like if you put too much garbage down the drain it gets clogged and just builds up on you, well same thing with gravity and as things shoot into the blackhole they make the blackhole and items spin like air with weathervains, now using netwons theory it would keep spining untill something makes it stop spinning, so thats how the earth spins, and as it spins and moves around it sucked thingsinto it and once it sucked in everything it can (and during all of this time its rotating) its losing its excess rocks that are creating resitance in its rotation, but when the rocks get shot off they go into either other planets or the planet they came from, this would obviously take a long long time... any questions? i am not the greatest of explainers

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Originally Posted by Sepmann
I figured it out.... ok read this

(Why are all planets round?
I came up with the idea that when the planets spin they turn into speahers because a square would cause alot of resistance or maybe too much resistance, another proposition is that who said we have to have started out as squares maybe (we=all planets), maybe we started out as chunks of rock that over time have found thier poisitions and started orbitin other planets, due to thier shape they cant circle (rotate) to thier maximum potential so they just lose the pieces the create friction and they get shot off into space, this could answer how the universe started, if we go backwards trying to figure out where every piece came from.... opinions????)

now with that idea i get the idea that

maybe so much has been sucked into the blackhole that started earth that it has clogged up meaning filled with stuff like if you put too much garbage down the drain it gets clogged and just builds up on you, well same thing with gravity and as things shoot into the blackhole they make the blackhole and items spin like air with weathervains, now using netwons theory it would keep spining untill something makes it stop spinning, so thats how the earth spins, and as it spins and moves around it sucked thingsinto it and once it sucked in everything it can (and during all of this time its rotating) its losing its excess rocks that are creating resitance in its rotation, but when the rocks get shot off they go into either other planets or the planet they came from, this would obviously take a long long time... any questions? i am not the greatest of explainers

1) Planets tend to be spherical because a sphere will hold the most mass with the least amount of surface area. In space water drops are sphereical, Blow a bubble and it naturally takes on what shape?

2) I think you have a basic misunderstanding about how a black hole works. Black holes are formed BECAUSE of gravity, If I understand correctly, you are postulating black holes REPLACE gravity on planets. If thats the case and black holes replace gravity, then how did the black hole form to begin with?

3) I think we would have been able to detect this by now. It seems to me that if the Mass in the center of the earth was being compressed by a black hole, then we would have detected it by now. You cannot eat up the center of a planet without it having some adverse effects on the surface.

17. I apologise. But you must understand that we have had a lot of dealings with people who come here with some insane assertion and expect it to be accepted without evidence until we disprove it. That is wholly illogical. Those posters soon end up banned because they become offensive when we force them to acknowledge burden of proof.

Black holes aren't analogous to drains. A drain can become clogged, but a black hole grows as more matter falls into it. The more matter is sucks in, the more sucky it becomes.

Planets formed as spheres because they were original formed from dust and gas. The dust and gas spiralled into a gravity hotspot and heated up, somewhat like an accretion disk. The now molten material clumped together but gravity tried to compress the stuff as much as it could and as a result you get a sphere.

When dealing with black holes, you will find that Newton's Laws don't work. Newton's Laws are subject to certain constraints. They can only be applied to an inertial frame. They are only accurate for speeds much slower than c. They are only accurate for moderate gravitational fields. They serve us well because there are many situations where these constraints are upheld. Black holes is not one of them.

18. You may want to look at this thread. I'm open to the idea of a small (say less than 1/10,000th of the Earth's mass) black hole at the center of the Earth. No geophysicist has given definitive data that rules it out.

19. Originally Posted by Celestial Mechanic
You may want to look at this thread.
Hmm. Did Banquo's Ghost move from Nova Scotia to Toronto?

20. no black hole... but is there a nuclear reaction at the center of our planet?
I'm not an astromathematician, so I'm not sure how to solve for the pressure present and pressure required for fusion.

21. Originally Posted by darkdev
no black hole... but is there a nuclear reaction at the center of our planet?
I'm not an astromathematician, so I'm not sure how to solve for the pressure present and pressure required for fusion.
I don't think Earth is anywhere near the limit. The upper limit for planet size is a bit bigger than Jupiter, so that might give you an idea on what kind of pressure is needed to ignite fusion.

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Originally Posted by Normandy6644
Originally Posted by darkdev
no black hole... but is there a nuclear reaction at the center of our planet?
I'm not an astromathematician, so I'm not sure how to solve for the pressure present and pressure required for fusion.
I don't think Earth is anywhere near the limit. The upper limit for planet size is a bit bigger than Jupiter, so that might give you an idea on what kind of pressure is needed to ignite fusion.

BUT isn't the mantle and core kept hot because of heavy radioactive elements decaying? Or is the Bad science?

23. Originally Posted by skrap1r0n
Originally Posted by Normandy6644
Originally Posted by darkdev
no black hole... but is there a nuclear reaction at the center of our planet?
I'm not an astromathematician, so I'm not sure how to solve for the pressure present and pressure required for fusion.
I don't think Earth is anywhere near the limit. The upper limit for planet size is a bit bigger than Jupiter, so that might give you an idea on what kind of pressure is needed to ignite fusion.

BUT isn't the mantle and core kept hot because of heavy radioactive elements decaying? Or is the Bad science?
I won't pretend to know enough about geology to answer your question. What I do know is that the pressure certainly isn't enough to ignite fusion in our core, otherwise we'd be a star!

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Originally Posted by skrap1r0n
Originally Posted by Normandy6644
Originally Posted by darkdev
no black hole... but is there a nuclear reaction at the center of our planet?
I'm not an astromathematician, so I'm not sure how to solve for the pressure present and pressure required for fusion.
I don't think Earth is anywhere near the limit. The upper limit for planet size is a bit bigger than Jupiter, so that might give you an idea on what kind of pressure is needed to ignite fusion.

BUT isn't the mantle and core kept hot because of heavy radioactive elements decaying? Or is the Bad science?
I would guess that the preassure is good enough to keep the stuff melted, but is not great enough for fission. Or maybe its great enough at the center to keep the center hot, and it heats everything else up... Thats just my guess...

25. Radioactive decay is responsible for keeping the interior warmer for longer. I also heard that some think there could be some fission going on in the deep.

26. Originally Posted by Glom
Radioactive decay is responsible for keeping the interior warmer for longer. I also heard that some think there could be some fission going on in the deep.
I've heard there is fission going on in the core as well, same with the radioactive decay. If the core is liquid it's certainly hot enough for this to occur...

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I'm no expert but seismology, especially in the area of earthquake detection, seems to work reasonably well based on the current earth model. I think a black hole of any size at the Earth's center would result in a much different density gradient that might not be compatible with seismological observation.

28. There is a Black Hole in the centre of the Galaxy though (all of them appartently) and it's a ginormous one, like bigger than big.

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yea but its dormant, the black holes in most galaxies are dormant not very exciting if they're not doing anything if you ask me

30. Originally Posted by siriusastronomer
yea but its dormant, the black holes in most galaxies are dormant not very exciting if they're not doing anything if you ask me
lol. I wouldn't speak too soon. There has been a few signs that ours is getting active again, though the speculation is that a gas cloud or something has just gotten a little too close.

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