concerns about a vacuum metastability event

[heimdallr]

I wasn't sure if this is the right place to post this so if it's not I apologize. Also I'm new to the forums so hello everyone!

I learned about this just recently (about a couple of years ago) and to be honest it is terrifying me. The thought of doing normal everyday things one moment and the next you instantly no longer exist without any warning is almost too much to bear. I know that if it happened at least once a long time ago we most likely wouldn't even be here, and I don't really pay any mind to the particle accelerators, but rather my fears are what if it happened relatively recently somewhere in the universe and it'll reach us and wipe us out at any moment now? I've tried reading about it in multiple sites/forum discussions and most said not to worry about it for various reasons (you wouldn't even notice if it happens, it's not 100% proven, very unlikely to happen, etc) and it helped for a bit but it just comes right back. The only thing I can do now is post my concerns here.

Basically I'm hoping for someone to give me feedback to help put me at ease. Given the base of my concerns, this is probably something to bring up with a therapist and not something to place on a forum board like this, but I can't stand it anymore and most therapists probably don't know a thing about astrology.

I've never fully appreciated the phrase "ignorance is bliss" until now.

[pzkpfw]

Welcome.

First I'll note, BAUT is not the place to get therapy. So the replies you get to this question (not that I see a specific question) will be pretty much the same as you've already got.

(If anything, I'd put you onto a recent member who is afraid of black holes. You could talk to that member (via PM, not in the open forum) and either make each other more scared, or perhaps see that there's no use being sacred. But again, BAUT is not the place for such advice.)

Secondly, I'd be happy for a therapist to not know about astrology, because astrology is bunkum. A therapist who knows some astronomy would be pretty good, however.

[heimdallr]

I figured there probably wouldn't be much use posting my concerns here, but I thought I'd try anyway. I was hoping to maybe find out about something related to this event that I may have missed elsewhere. I realize that there's no point worrying about it since it's beyond our control (it may not even be possible), but it doesn't help me any. For some reason dying from health issues, accidents or cataclysmic events such as asteroids sit better with me than with being obliterated instantly without even knowing what was happening.

I could talk to that guy, but I don't think he'd make my situation worse since I don't really care about black hole issues, however I would probably end up worsening his. Not really something I'd be comfortable with.

I'm sorry to waste your and other peoples' time posting this.

Secondly, I'd be happy for a therapist to not know about astrology, because astrology is bunkum. A therapist who knows some astronomy would be pretty good, however.

My bad, I meant to say astronomy. It's easy for me to mix the two words up because of how similar they are.

[astromark]

I wasn't sure if this is the right place to post this so if it's not I apologize. Also I'm new to the forums so hello everyone!
.

----------------- and Welcome...

IT is a much better idea to concern yourself with your Earthly dangers... like auto accidents and Ill health...
In these astronomy related sciences we can deal with your fear... sort of and nearly.
For a good understanding of the science will help displace your fears... " ".

Fortunately the universe is very, very big. This puts nearly everything remotely dangerous so far from us never to be a worry.
I am not joking. You are in NO danger from space.
As this solar system formed some four and a half billion years ago from the mater available to it it has taken a few of those billions of years to get the conditions right for the life forms that we are to be able to flourish as we do... Humans have not been subjected to a extinction event yet.
Nor in the foreseeable future can I predict with certainty any such event. So being aware of any such risk is nothing more than a interesting idea...
Its like asking if you have seen a near to earth nova event... that answer is no. Will you ? That answer is the same.
Wild speculation and unwarranted concern will not help. They could in fact bring upon you illnesses of real consequence...
You have come to this web site and tabled a 'concern'... I hope you can see past it. The answer is... Don't worry, be happy, live long...

[heimdallr]

----------------- and Welcome...

IT is a much better idea to concern yourself with your Earthly dangers... like auto accidents and Ill health...
In these astronomy related sciences we can deal with your fear... sort of and nearly.
For a good understanding of the science will help displace your fears... " ".

Fortunately the universe is very, very big. This puts nearly everything remotely dangerous so far from us never to be a worry.
I am not joking. You are in NO danger from space.
As this solar system formed some four and a half billion years ago from the mater available to it it has taken a few of those billions of years to get the conditions right for the life forms that we are to be able to flourish as we do... Humans have not been subjected to a extinction event yet.
Nor in the foreseeable future can I predict with certainty any such event. So being aware of any such risk is nothing more than a interesting idea...
Its like asking if you have seen a near to earth nova event... that answer is no. Will you ? That answer is the same.
Wild speculation and unwarranted concern will not help. They could in fact bring upon you illnesses of real consequence...
You have come to this web site and tabled a 'concern'... I hope you can see past it. The answer is... Don't worry, be happy, live long...

One way to think of it is like this. There are likely many other civilizations like ours out in the universe, many with their own accelerators. And there are many things taking place in the universe, like black hole collisions, etc., so I think it is likely that if the universe were really fragile, it would have already collapsed. The fact that we are still here after so many billions of years of things happenings seems a fairly strong hint that the universe is stable.

To be honest, though, there is also a possibility each day that a meteorite will enter the atmosphere and happen to strike the place you are standing. Well, there are lots of more likely issues, like a stray bullet or an out-of-control driver. So I don't know how reassuring I can be, but at least I can say that a "metastability" event is not really something that warrants worry.

Just like Jens said, there are far more Earthly dangers to worry about (meteors too).

But; even if the likelyhood is an even* chance with a meta event, then I would rather have it happen than the others. My reasoning is that I'd rather be wiped out when everyone else is rather than being in a select group being wiped out, or worse, not quite wiped out.

*Which is so remote, I don't even think about it.

This does help me somewhat. Thank you everyone. It still made me lose sleep last night though, unfortunately.

I'll probably get over this within a couple of weeks. It's not the first time I've feared a cataclysmic event, it's just this time the event in question is about the absolute worst that could happen, and it holds the potential to wipe out everything in the universe (as far as I know) and not just us. I understand NEOWatcher's reasoning but I'd still prefer the others.. I'd probably end up changing my mind if we were confronted with the other events though. I know there's really no point in fearing it. It's a very unlikely event, heck it may not even be possible to happen since the theories behind it are apparently highly disputed (correct me if I'm wrong here, please), and if it does happen we wouldn't even know what hit us. It's still hard for me to fight down though.

Thanks everyone for your time. I'll try to feel better about the whole thing.

[Jens]

I know that if it happened at least once a long time ago we most likely wouldn't even be here, and I don't really pay any mind to the particle accelerators, but rather my fears are what if it happened relatively recently somewhere in the universe and it'll reach us and wipe us out at any moment now?

One way to think of it is like this. There are likely many other civilizations like ours out in the universe, many with their own accelerators. And there are many things taking place in the universe, like black hole collisions, etc., so I think it is likely that if the universe were really fragile, it would have already collapsed. The fact that we are still here after so many billions of years of things happenings seems a fairly strong hint that the universe is stable.

To be honest, though, there is also a possibility each day that a meteorite will enter the atmosphere and happen to strike the place you are standing. Well, there are lots of more likely issues, like a stray bullet or an out-of-control driver. So I don't know how reassuring I can be, but at least I can say that a "metastability" event is not really something that warrants worry.

[NEOWatcher]

Just like Jens said, there are far more Earthly dangers to worry about (meteors too).

But; even if the likelyhood is an even* chance with a meta event, then I would rather have it happen than the others. My reasoning is that I'd rather be wiped out when everyone else is rather than being in a select group being wiped out, or worse, not quite wiped out.

*Which is so remote, I don't even think about it.

[Cougar]

I've tried reading about it in multiple sites/forum discussions and most said not to worry about it for various reasons...

The vacuum energy density is about as close to a zero ground state as it can get. There is essentially no room for it to decay any further. Don't worry. Be happy.

[heimdallr]

The vacuum energy density is about as close to a zero ground state as it can get. There is essentially no room for it to decay any further. Don't worry. Be happy.

Does this make a metastability event impossible, or possible but extremely unlikely? I'm feeling a bit conflicted when I read this and think about the false vacuum theory. I hardly know anything about this kind of stuff. :x

[Cougar]

Does this make a metastability event impossible, or possible but extremely unlikely?

Having never been observed, it is completely theoretical,
and if there is such a thing, it is (extremely unlikely) x 10²⁴.

[astromark]

There is always a other view... So I suggest you try this.
Thirteen point seven billion years ago a event took place that disturbed the fabric of space time. It was the birth of it.
Because we have so little knowledge of that moment we have called it 'The Big Bang' and reason it would have been. just that.
That we know a great deal of what happened since that moment is clear... We have had metastability ever since...
It can also be argued that as we have nothing of what transpired if anything before that event.
As it seems to have been the beginning of all that can ever be...
Your concerns of sudden changes are unfounded. That the eccelorating expansion of the Universe is happening and will continue to do so is apparent., and unchallenged as fact.

[heimdallr]

There is always a other view... So I suggest you try this.
Thirteen point seven billion years ago a event took place that disturbed the fabric of space time. It was the birth of it.
Because we have so little knowledge of that moment we have called it 'The Big Bang' and reason it would have been. just that.
That we know a great deal of what happened since that moment is clear... We have had metastability ever since...
It can also be argued that as we have nothing of what transpired if anything before that event.
As it seems to have been the beginning of all that can ever be...
Your concerns of sudden changes are unfounded. That the eccelorating expansion of the Universe is happening and will continue to do so is apparent., and unchallenged as fact.

I suppose I can try looking at it in that way. Thanks.

My problem is I'm quite the pessimist. Whenever I read about stuff like this, I first start imagining how it might happen, then despite being only theoretical I start fearing the worst that it's going to happen in the very near future (especially since this event really could happen at any time), like it happened in a specific place a long time ago and its expansion is close to arriving here. There's also my question of faith and how nothing but oblivion could be awaiting us when we die, but that bit is definitely something to bring to a therapist and not here, so I'll leave that alone. xD

You're right, though. My concerns are definitely unfounded since AFAIK there's no solid evidence of this happening now and definitely long ago, excluding the beginning of the BB. (again, correct me if I'm wrong).

[heimdallr]

Well, despite all of the consoling I've received on this thread, I'm still frightened and feeling rather crappy over the whole thing. Everywhere I look for info it always seems like the false vacuum theory and such leans more towards being a reality and not just a theory. I could be overthinking this but this is how I currently feel.

I guess all I can do is hope I'll just get over it eventually. Thanks for all the help, everyone.

[JustAFriend]

There are a LOT worse ways to go, especially when you'd just wink out of existence and not even feel it.

"I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather. not screaming and yellin' like the passengers in his car."
- comic Emo Phillips

[a1call]

This thread reminds me of a trip me and my family took when I was a child. One of the places we visited was Italy. We visited some narrow caves and the tour guide explained that early Christians lived in hiding in those caves for some 300 years. At this point my Mom expressed concern that the caves did not look safe and might collapse while we were visiting them. My father replied, they haven't collapsed for 2000 years, it wasn't very likely that they would collapse in the few minuets that we were visiting them. I remember feeling quite confident about the integrity of those caves afterward.
Universe has been around for more than 13000000000 years. I will personally assure you that it will not end in our lifetime. Plus being killed by the ending of universe or not does not make a difference. The only way to carry on our lives is to not be obsessed by death. There is nothing we can do about it or the taxes, so make the best of it.

[Gamefreak89]

I'm not sure what a "Vacuum metastability event" is but I'm guessing that its a collision between 2 different universes or the expansion of the Universe? I've been through the same thing you have been through Heimdallr when I was around 15 years old, I use to worry about the moon or an asteroid falling on top of us but of course I grew out of this when I was a little older. Now a days I would worry more about the every day stomach virus to a bad flu . The human race has been here since their ancestors 4.2 million years ago and they aren't going no where for a very long time.

If I were you I would go out side at night look up at the sky and laugh at it trust me it would make you feel better it has for me sometimes. So anyways what exactly is a false vaccum?

[heimdallr]

And here I thought people were done with my thread. xD

I hope you meant astronomy instead of astrology which according to science is simply a type of superstition.

Yeah, I did. Astronomy and Astrology are similar in spelling so I got them mixed up.

I was primarily worrying about a VME (in general, I wasn't too worried about particle accelerators creating one) because I read that it could wipe out humanity, and leave no evidence of our existence in the blink of an eye (although it would wipe out anything that could potentially learn of our existence too), and I thought I read more than just junk about it. I'm probably just thinking too much. The moment I learned of such an event I started fearing and half-expecting that it was going to happen any moment or in the very near future, despite that the universe has been around for almost 14 billion years and hasn't had an event like that once, at least not in the first half of its current lifetime. The lifespan of a human being isn't even a drop in the bucket compared to that. Not to mention that it may not even be possible to occur.

When I think back on it, the reason I got so fixated on it is because I probably fear death more than the average person, and that I'm always questioning our existence and what happens to us after we've passed on. Oblivion is a depressing/scary thought to me.

I still think about it but I'm starting to get over it now, finally. I felt pretty horrible the past week or so.

[luckyfrank]

I have it in my head at the moment that humanity will be wiped out by a grb

Its kinda sad to think that humanity is destined for extinction one way or another

The universe is just to big and to dangerous, it also has me thinking of all the other intelligent species in the universe who may have become extinct from a asteroid, grb, or supernova or just there own sun dying

[forrest noble]

Welcome to BAUT Heimdallr,

There are a number of remote possibilities that cosmic events might harm one or more of us but as Astromark has pointed out, be more concerned about the most likely dangers which for most part involves taking care of your health, auto accidents, etc. Although cosmic events have probably intervened in the Earth's history, as far as a human life time is concerned the odds against such a personal life ending event seems inconsequential. Once it really sinks in how unlikely such an event really is concerning your personal well being, the quicker your worries will disappear. If your concerns primarily relate to just a "vacuum metastability event" then I think you have probably just read web-based junk.

I hope you meant astronomy instead of astrology which according to science is simply a type of superstition.

[forrest noble]

heimdallr,

Here's the big picture in my opinion. If in the mainstream thought there was even a remote possibility of great catastrophe then they probably would not have built anything that could cause such a catastrophe or provide the funding for such super accelerators. As for me there was millions of times more to worry about maybe 50 years ago when the cold war was going strong. If what you may have read was not simply junk science, such assertions in my opinion find their main support in persons without a scientific understanding of the matters involved. By the way, what does VME stand for? The only thing that made sense that I could find was Vortex Motion and Evolution.

My advice for you is to keep your eyes on the prize (meaning your total focus), which should be concerned with your goals in life and try to become as educated as possible so that "strange ideas" like this one cannot distract your attention from those goals or cause worry. Of course the best laid plans of mice and men do not always work out as planned so your plan must be continuously flexible like the rudder on a ship and always remember to smell the flowers and enjoy the journey. When you get off track it is usually not difficult to change the rudder direction as long as you are in full command of your wits.

[a1call]

I hope this will make you cheer up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXCKaPyrZmg&sns=em

[astromark]

Lets put this absurd idea to rest forever.
There quite simply can not be a event that would involve the complete instantaneous destruction of the entire Universe or even the sterilising of it...
Even at velocity c. A ending event would take considerably more than 13.7 billion years.
As the expansion has accelerated some what...and is ongoing...the known Universe is much bigger than the 13.7 Billion years it looks like...
Can you grasp that were there to be a cataclysmic event... it would take more than a hundred billion years to reach here... And it MUST be made very clear. We have no knowledge of such or any event...even being possible...
AND to further your calm... Be aware that if the slightest probability of a space based threat to humanity was detected we would as Captain Picard would say... " Deflector Shields up..." That is fiction. and that is where this meta instability idea belongs... No such animal exists... The Elephant has left the room....just after Elvis did. Gone. Dead. No wings and, can not fly....
The greatest minds on Earth are looking after us all... If the scientific community had the slightest inkling of the 'Danger' from space. The budget and Politicians would reflect that. They do not. There is not.

[dgavin]

Lets put this absurd idea to rest forever.
There quite simply can not be a event that would involve the complete instantaneous destruction of the entire Universe or even the sterilising of it...
Even at velocity c. A ending event would take considerably more than 13.7 billion years.
As the expansion has accelerated some what...and is ongoing...the known Universe is much bigger than the 13.7 Billion years it looks like...
Can you grasp that were there to be a cataclysmic event... it would take more than a hundred billion years to reach here... And it MUST be made very clear. We have no knowledge of such or any event...even being possible...
AND to further your calm... Be aware that if the slightest probability of a space based threat to humanity was detected we would as Captain Picard would say... " Deflector Shields up..." That is fiction. and that is where this meta instability idea belongs... No such animal exists... The Elephant has left the room....just after Elvis did. Gone. Dead. No wings and, can not fly....
The greatest minds on Earth are looking after us all... If the scientific community had the slightest inkling of the 'Danger' from space. The budget and Politicians would reflect that. They do not. There is not.

Not to mention that even if such a Instability event happened, thats it would simply form a new universe, with slightly different laws of physics, thats completely seperate from ours.

So even if a collider produced a universe via a instability event by accident, about all we would see of it is that the matter and energy produced by the collision, just simply vanishes from our universe.

So far, no such event of vanishing material/energy has ever happened.